INFJ/INFP friendship: Is this normal? Can I fix it?

INFJ/INFP friendship: Is this normal? Can I fix it?

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This is a discussion on INFJ/INFP friendship: Is this normal? Can I fix it? within the Advice Center forums, part of the The Cafe Lounge category; I thought this thread would either go in the INFP or Advice-Seeking forums section, but, since I don't think my ...

  1. #1

    INFJ/INFP friendship: Is this normal? Can I fix it?

    I thought this thread would either go in the INFP or Advice-Seeking forums section, but, since I don't think my question/advice-seeking relates solely to the INFP-type, I thought it would be better placed in the advice-seeking forum. If it's poorly placed, I will be happy to move it.

    To clear up any possible pre-conceived notions, I don't believe either of us really has romantic feelings for each other. The situation is that the two of us have been internet friends for somewhere near a year, and we used to talk a lot before the summer. We talk online at a roleplaying forum (for writing) and she has told me, over and over, that she trusts me and she feels like she can tell me anything. She keeps telling me I'm "awesome," and she says a lot about how much she appreciates me- and I'm pretty sure she means it. Personality types came up at one point in our conversations (we had prior discussed a general like of psychology), and that's how we know each other's type.

    The thing that bothers me is that, for the last two and a half months, she doesn't really seem to want to talk to me- even though, when on a rare occasion, we do, she says she loves it and she really cares about me and that she "really does want to talk to me." She could've fooled me- because, whenever I try to send her the private messages on the website I mentioned, she'll totally abandon the conversation within one or two replies. She hasn't responded to me in the forum at all. The website also has an IM system; she used to respond to me on it, but I guess that was before she figured out how to use it. Since she's figured out how to use it, she won't reply to me that often.

    Since I found out that she was an INFP, even though I'm an INFJ (and thus, obviously, and "I"), I decided to try to be sensitive to the fact that she's an introvert, too- which was why I caved and even sent her private messages or IMs, in the first place. It kind of bothers me, though, when she tells me she's on summer vacation and has said to me, in her own words, that she "spends all day moping around, waiting around for her friends to get on facebook." Should I be taking a hint, here? I feel really bad by continuing to message her with issues I'm having, because I have had at least one or two before and I don't want this to turn into a "Talk to me all the time if you want to be my friend, ever." But, to be candid, the fact that she's damn near told me I'm her best friend ("I can't trust anyone else with this information but you," "You're the only person who cares to listen to me talk about my personal stuff,"), keeps telling me how much she loves talking to me and saying how "awesome" I am- really starts to hurt when you've been online all day, seen her online all day (not on facebook, on the site we met on, and that site will log you off if you're inactive for a certain amount of time), and then she complains that she never gets to see her friends online. We did have a very nice conversation the other day, but I think that was mostly because we were both feeling down in the dumps and kind of helped cheer each other up (it was discussed prior to the actual conversation...I sent her a message, and, as it turned out, she was invisible or something). Unfortunately, it just doesn't seem like she wants to talk to me that much unless she's depressed- and she doesn't even always want to talk to me then. It really hurts my feelings and I'm starting to feel used. Maybe I'd understand why she doesn't seem to want to talk to me if I didn't make an effort to contact her (for clarity, I do try to keep that effort quite controlled to avoid getting on peoples' nerves; please don't think I'm constantly sending her messages all the time, because I don't do that at all), but I do make that effort and it seems like- if she really liked talking to me that much or thought I was really that awesome- she might...gee, I don't know, respond? :/ I did go ahead and send her a message tonight (I'm not sure if I mentioned that, already), but- like I said- I feel bad doing that, because we have had other issues (which I know she has been trying to fix at least somewhat), and I honestly don't want to be up her @SS all the time with some kind of problem. If anyone thinks they might like to see the message I sent her, feel free to ask for it and I'll put it up- I have nothing to hide, I just don't really think it's relevant.

    Coincidentally, I have experienced similar behavior from others, whom I also suspect are INFPs, which is why I do go ahead and direct some questions to the Personality Cafe's INFP population who are here and want to help.

    My general questions are;
    Is this a normal INFJ/INFP complaint?
    ...or maybe just a normal INFJ complaint?
    Should I be taking the hint?
    Is there a possibility that I'm being used?
    Am I worrying too much/ trying to connect things that actually aren't or shouldn't be connected?

    Specifically to the INFPs;
    Is this normal behavior, for you? If so, why? (I ask so that I can understand and at least try to accept the fact that it is, if it is). Can I do anything about it, except confront her?
    Might she be sending some kind of hint?

    And, obviously, I'm asking everyone who's willing to answer what advice they can give me. Please be kind, and thank you for your time.
    frietfriet thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Okie dokie, I'll see if I can be of any help. I've had many INFP friendships and relationships, and I've experienced what you're going through every now and again. It could be many different things, so don't get discouraged if any one things sounds bad. In the end, you'll have to talk to her to be sure about anything.

    Friendships go through different stages, lulls and periods of excitement. In the beginning of a friendship, when you meet someone you really connect with and get a long you can spend a whole lot of time talking together and exploring all sorts of topics. And depending on the level of interaction between two people in the beginning, it can naturally cool off over time. Another thing is that sometimes people need breaks from another person or from people in general for a while, especially INFPs. It's pretty common for an INFP to kind of zone out of their social circles for periods of time.

    And it seems like she may be associating you with emotional support, and a comrade in depressing times. If that's the case, she may be in a different emotional state due to circumstances in her life that make her not feel as strong of a connection with you. If you have a friend you always talk with when you're sad, and something changes in your life to make you happy, it can be naturally to not talk to the person you always talk to when you're sad. But this isn't something bad or unchangeable. You may naturally drift apart, or you may find new common ground to connect over. If she's used to you being her emotional support, if you try bringing up different kinds of conversations that might reestablish the kind of relationship you two have.

    However, there's nothing quite as good as gently asking directly if there's a problem. If you ask in a manner like "hey, I don't know what's going on but we seem to be talking less. Is everything alright? I've just been a little worried, is all..." then you'll be able to show her you're thinking about her while bringing up the subject. If she kind of brushes that off, then she might just need some space right now and doesn't know how to say it.

    One thing that *is* important to do is calm down some and take a deep breath. It's natural for INFJs to jump to conclusions, especially when they get too focused on something. We tend to get paranoid about possible bad conclusions and use all the "evidence" we can think of to support negative outcomes. So it would be good to try and step back a minute and calm down. She's still your friend and she still cares about you.

    One thing that does differ for INFJs and INFPs is the Fe vs. Fi difference. I don't know if you know about functions, but basically it comes down to the idea that INFJs really desire and need to share their feelings and emotions, and INFPs are much more introspective and deal with their emotions on their own. So INFPs can go into introverted periods for a while to deal with things where INFJs would naturally seek emotional support from outside.

    The best idea would be just to try and talk to her about it gently, and see what happens. If you can't get anywhere, just try focusing on other things and see if she comes around in time. It might be a good time to work on other friendships, finding new ones, or working on something else in your life. But don't lose hope.
    susurration, Zmp, ToiletWater13 and 1 others thanked this post.

  3. #3

    @EvilByte : I am knowledgeable of the ups and downs in communication during friendship, and I'd like to say I understand it, but maybe I don't- because I can be really sensitive to it (like now). I'd prefer to think, however, that my issue is more related to feeling that my attempts to strike up other conversation or find other common ground are being ignored or, worse, are becoming annoying. Thank you for your comments on the context of our friendship; I definitely thought that we bonded over much more than her sad times, but maybe that was just a perception of the relationship or something and I see how it could've gotten there.

    You... pretty much hit the nail on the head about" jumping to conclusions" and "paranoia." XD I knew those were INFJ points, and I also know we tend to "look for the connections," which can be a really, really good thing- but also a really, really bad thing- and thus, why I did try (whether I succeeded or not, who knows?) to take a step back and ask for advice.

    I know about the functions, but not much. I know what mine are, but I can't tell you to who's personality type they all go or anything like that. Unfortunately, to add to my confusion, she told me that her "I" can sometimes double as an "E." I'm not even sure how much that would be the issue, though, since I'm sure that even the most Extraverted person sometimes may feel the need to become introspective and closed off with certain problems- but it's definitely a point to consider as being causative for the confusion, so, once again, thank you :)

    When I sent her the email, I did try to go ahead and give her the "gentle nudge" of information. I just don't want to come off as a problematic or fault-finding person, and really make her not want to talk to me. Is that just more INFJ paranoia? XD
    EvilByte and frietfriet thanked this post.

  4. #4

    @ToiletWater13 : As far as functions go, the I/E difference is the least significant. It simply changes the order a little bit. An ENFP uses Fi just like an INFP, so the problems between Fe and Fi could still occur as I mentioned before.

    Yes, that's classic INFJ paranoia. You get so worried about every little thing that you're doing, and then you start constantly making concessions while you're talking to someone else. "I think this, but oh no don't take it this way. I mean that, but oh no I don't want to come across as this," etc. People can usually easily tell something is wrong because it often comes across as the INFJ being desperate - they're trying way too hard to not mess up that they seem totally scattered and worried. Many people see this reaction and go "whoa, what is going on here? This person is pretty weird..." and are often scared away or put off by it.

    Generally, though, it won't happen between friends - there's usually nothing so significant to worry about because many friends don't fight over things or have disputes. So there's no place for the INFJ to "mess up" and give off the wrong impression. In your first post you said that romantic feelings probably aren't involved, but I think it would be a good idea to think about that a little more. Is she straight? I often fall for someone I have a deep emotional connection with, someone who understands me well - most of my relationships have been with INFPs too. I'm naturally drawn to them. But if at one point in the past you decided "okay we're just friends" for whatever reasons, you might have tried your best to ignore any romantic feelings for the sake of the friendship. But it's good to admit these kinds of feelings, at least to yourself.

    That's just a possibility, though. I can understand your paranoia coming just from a very strong emotional bond suddenly not being there. If I were really close to a friend and was used to their support and talking to them, if they suddenly started ignoring me (for whatever reasons), I'd probably get hurt and be confused, and start over-analyzing every possible reason or cause. That's why it's good practice for an INFJ to be direct about things like this - it will save you from your paranoia and make sure you don't look desperate. Of course if you get a cryptic answer it might be best to try and distance yourself a little bit.

    When my INFP girlfriend read this thread, she had a more negative opinion of your friend. She thought "wow, she even says she's online alone all day on FB while you're there online all day to talk to." She thought that was very rude. But I'm not sure why she's acting that way - she could be totally oblivious to what she's doing to you (very probable, especially considering she couldn't know the depths of your worries), or she's trying to subtly tell you something or get you to react a certain way. She may also just feel different from you right now because as you said might be the case, she might have a different perception of the relationship between you two.

    Relationships between people should happen naturally. If one gets too focused on acting perfectly or finding perfect solutions then things are liable to end up poorly. That's why it's important for INFJs to find a way to calm their paranoia so it doesn't affect their relationships with other. One of the things I've found helps is to be around friends whom you aren't having any problems with. Opening up to a close friend can be really helpful and they will often try to help ease your worries. But even just being around your friends will calm you down and make you happy because you can relax more and have a little fun - human contact is a very important things.

    So just try not to worry about it for a while. If your gentle nudge didn't work, you could try being even more direct and say that you're bothered by what's currently happening and want to talk about it with her. Or you could try backing off for a while and see what happens naturally. That's usually one of the best things to do - you won't come off as paranoid and it'll give you some space to breathe and refocus your energy. Then you can see if she comes to you only when she's sad or has problems. If that's the case, you may be seen by her as the stereotypical INFJ counselor/support friend. But if she comes back to you, it means she cares about your friendship to some degree.

    Unfortunately you can't solve this issue just by yourself. Your friend is a key player and how she feels and acts will affect the situation. You just have to try and be calm enough to act in the manner you think is best.
    susurration, ToiletWater13 and frietfriet thanked this post.

  5. #5

    @EvilByte: Well, at least it's normal. I've been told by more direct people that I can sound kind of awkward, and I even notice that I start to talk a certain way. I know I can come off that way- normally, I do it as compensation because I don't want to come off as hurtful when I say something blunt. :(

    Actually, I have considered the possibility that I have feelings for her- and we are both homosexual females. From the outside looking in, it definitely can look that way; however, I think it's more likely that I'm a worry-wort (wart?). I worry over everything- especially my friendships- and I actually consider her a friend (c'mon. You know what that's like, for the INFJ D: ). I will...try to keep the idea more in mind..? But, I don't think it's a strong factor, here (not always a good reason for me to quit thinking).

    She did get back to me on the website we talk on, and it looks like part of it was a misunderstanding (as I suspected) and part of it might be a computer/website glitch. The other part might be easily fixable (I'm still waiting for her to respond to my last letter, so I have no 100% as of yet). I think she basically said "Oh, sorry, I got hung up on things and I hate the disorganized communication methods on here. We can talk on the forum thing again, if you want."

    In addition to my paranoia, though, I have some trouble deciphering when something is a miscommunication and when something is a hint. I don't know that many people who will tell you outright "Oh, hey, I'm sick and tired of you. Stop trying to talk to me." In my experience, I will finally break down and confront someone about whatever might be getting to me, they apologize and say they want to fix it, but never do- despite the fact that I do try to give people gentle reminders and may even try to explain it to them repeatedly- just to be fair to them, even though it's really hard for me. Usually, the problem will go on until I completely lose interest (can take a very long time) or just completely give up. I think, at some point, a person has to take a hint and realize that "Sure, you're a good friend" might actually mean "You are a freaking pest. Go. away." Any thoughtful comments from you or your girlfriend on when or how to take a hint?
    EvilByte and frietfriet thanked this post.

  6. #6

    @ToiletWater13 : I think it's certainly plausible that romantic feelings aren't playing much of a picture. I just thought it might be something to consider again in case you overlooked something. And this possibly doesn't just relate to your side as well. Although you seemed pretty confident she didn't have feelings for you, and I'm not sure how I would evaluate her behavior in light of her liking you anyways.

    I'm glad she got back to you. This problem might just sort itself out, and all the worrying may have been just a workout through stress. I was talking to my INFP friend @andywg and he mentioned that the part where she told you how she was waiting all day for her friends to go on FB might have something to do with the difference in communication styles between you. I think he used the terms directing and informing, which I understood best as direct and indirect communication. INFJs tend to be more direct about things, where as INFPs like to point things out indirectly through hinting. So saying "I'm waiting all day with no one to talk to" could have been a hint for you to strike up a conversation with her. But that might not be the case if you were trying to talk to her and not getting through.

    And I know what you mean by not knowing how to take a hint. I would generally say bringing up an issue once, then if it doesn't improve, bring it up a second time, and then back off and see what happens. I can't imagine it working out if you clearly spell it out twice and nothing changes. And you don't want a relationship where you're constantly trying to get the person to talk to you. So I would say the "less is more" approach would be best - sitting back and letting them come to you if they want.

    I was going to say something else, but I completely forget.. Uhh... Good luck!
    ToiletWater13 thanked this post.

  7. #7

    I hate to say it, but that is pretty normal behavior for me. And it really sucks that the people I'm friends with could start to get paranoid and think I'm avoiding them or don't like them anymore. That's not it at all. For me, I may delay responding to something for a couple days, and then feel the guilt mount as I don't respond. Eventually I start to avoid them. It's absolutely silly and makes no sense, since it is easier to simply strike up a conversation and make both parties more at ease. I think INFPs just do this for some reason.
    Bring it up to her and remind her that her behavior is having an impact on you. Tell her you feel like she's been avoiding you but focus on how it makes you feel. INFPs do care a lot about other's feelings, but they can also get a tad self-absorbed and forget that they might be hurting others.

    I don't think an INFP would continue to say you are awesome or a good friend if they didn't actually feel that way. Take her word for it- she really does care. But bring up this issue and see what's up. I had a very similar thing happen with my ENFP friend where I felt like she was avoiding me and didn't care anymore. We had a long talk and sorted a lot of things out and it really helped our relationship. Give it a chance.
    ToiletWater13 thanked this post.

  8. #8

    @EvilByte: Well, thank you kindly for your comments XD I'm sorry you forgot what you were going to say, but you seem to be absolutely right- it looks like a problem that may just sort itself out. I actually don't normally ask for advice just out of stress, and I was pretty sure it was "just me spazzing out over nothing," but I thought it would be good to get others' input since it is such a common problem for me. At least now I know I'm not the only person who fretts so much over such ridiculous things. Thanks also @andywg for his/her suggestion, as well. I am open to the idea that it's a hint, only due to the fact that it still may be a technical difficulty. Oddly, though, she still hasn't gotten back to me...I am going to try saying something on the preferred method of communication, since that may still be the problem.

    I also mention this in the paragraph below, but you may/probably won't read it since it's directed elsewhere, so I'll mention it here: how easy do you and/or any of your INFJ/INFP friends (or anyone who knows a lot about the types by experience) think it would be to hurt or anger an INFP by opening up issues? From my understanding, they seem like they'd be very much more to the open/patient/willing-to-work-it-out side, but I could be wrong and I don't want her to- secretly or not- start feeling like I'm really judging her. It's really only been this and one other issue that I think was really superficial (I think I spelled that wrong...) and related more to a time issue than anything (a typical J/P complaint, I believe), but I'm known to worry about things like that.

    -------------------

    @Skum: If it helps any, I'm probably crazy- but, yeah, I hope your friends are a bit more direct with you than I am with my friends ^^' The receiving end of it is not very much fun. I have a tendency to do that with some people I talk to, but possibly the reason I get so paranoid is because I don't do it that often with people I enjoy talking to unless I'm stressed or depressed about something. I decided to say all that just to explain my thought-processes and, I don't may, maybe you could see if it applies to any of your friends?

    Also, though, thank you for the advice. I did go ahead and message her and we have had some conversation since, so I think it really may have just been a matter of addressing and resolving the issue. My issue with doing that, though, is that I really don't want to annoy her, hurt her feelings, or make her mad at me (and this goes for any of my friends). Since you're also an INFP and you've been kind enough to give me such information so far, would you mind telling me how easy you think it might be to hurt or anger an INFP by bringing up even fairly superficial issues? This has been pretty much my only problem with her, except a more time-related issue (a fairly typical J/P complaint, as far as I can understand), but I'm concerned about coming across as really disliking her. That would be self-defeating, now, wouldn't it? XD

  9. #9

    Don't be so hard on yourself, seriously. It's completely understandable that you feel worried and I think the longer this sort of thing goes on, the longer people are prone to worry and overanalyze.

    The thing is, do not blame her. Do not corner her, do not make her feel like she must defend herself. In that case, an INFP may feel hurt or angry. I think this goes for everyone and not just INFPs. They may have a behavior that others find mystifying or hurtful but they may not do it intentionally. The only way to get better is to have it brought to their attention so they can be aware of it. In her case, I'd suggest being direct but again, focus on the relationship and not her actions themselves. "Hey _______, I feel like we don't really talk as much as we used to. I know this may seem silly, but I feel like we're losing touch. It sucks when I feel so close to you and yet I don't hear from you for long periods of time. It just makes me worry about how things are going for you or if I've done something to upset you. You matter to me so I just want to talk this through."
    Something along those lines. Don't be surprised if she's confused or doesn't know what you're talking about. Again, she may not even realize she's doing this. But it's a good way to open a dialogue.

    Most INFPs I've encountered on this site are very calm people who definitely lean more towards the "let's work this out" side. I've noticed a minority get quite uppity, but those have been instances of the famous INFP values being treaded. Unless her main value is not being criticized, I don't think you have anything to worry about
    You're not annoying and you're not crazy. You are a good friend who has some questions and they can and will be resolved. Tread on :)
    Zmp and ToiletWater13 thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Interesting. Very interesting. I clicked this thread because I have a close friend with whom I have a complex relationship. We're INFP and INFJ respectively too. The difference is I feel treated by him much as you feel treated by your friend but I'm the INFP; he's the INFJ.

    She keeps telling me I'm "awesome," and she says a lot about how much she appreciates me- and I'm pretty sure she means it.

    The thing that bothers me is that, for the last two and a half months, she doesn't really seem to want to talk to me- even though, when on a rare occasion, we do, she says she loves it and she really cares about me and that she "really does want to talk to me." She could've fooled me-


    But, to be candid, the fact that she's damn near told me I'm her best friend ("I can't trust anyone else with this information but you," "You're the only person who cares to listen to me talk about my personal stuff,"), keeps telling me how much she loves talking to me and saying how "awesome" I am...

    It really hurts my feelings and I'm starting to feel used.
    These parts specifically relate to my friend and I only, as I have said, in our case he's the INFJ and I'm the INFP. To give you a bit of background we met as exchange students during both of our first times living in Japan (where we both live now too.) We lived in a huge (and awesome) dorm on campus with 60-odd other exchange students from all over the world. When we first arrived he was kinda awkward and some people didn't know quite how to take him. He was the only, and first, student from his university in Kentucky to come to our university in Japan. He also came from a Christian background, something not shared by the vast majority there. I came with 6 classmates from my uni in the north of England and, despite my natural proclivity to be solitary and unsocial, hit the right note early on and became pretty well-liked. Matt (the INFJ in question) struck me as a 'kindred spirit' though and eventually we started to connect. Sure enough we bonded extremely fast and, though he was slowly getting settled at this point, he really started to feel he belonged after meeting me and being embraced by the wider circle of friends I had.

    Matt and I were inseparable for much of that year. But after that year was up he went home, married his high school sweetheart (I even flew over to KY for a few days to attend the wedding,) and they both moved back to Japan to start life anew. I still had a year to graduate so went back home, did so, and moved back out here a year later. The thing is from the moment he returned to his "comfort zone," shall we say, his desire to spend time with me and his behaviour towards me changed sharply. Suddenly he didn't need me like he did before, back when he was out of his comfort zone and was almost always at my side. Sure, whilst we were apart, in the UK and Japan respectively, we couldn't hang like we did. But his attitude clearly changed. I thought, as soppy as it sounds, we'd really "connected," forged some special kinda 'bromance' that both of us desired and valued equally. He told me over and over (much like your friends does you) how 'awesome' I am and how "I'm the only one he can have deep talks with/am closer to him than anyone, bar his wife ," etc, etc. But he didn't seem particularly bothered by our parting ways nor the distance between us. I had to bug him to take time to talk to me online and he'd always seem like he'd rather be doing other things. Suddenly I'd gone from being central to his life to "out of sight, out of mind." I was no longer required like I was when he was alone, away from his fiancee/wife, friends and family, and that came through loud and clear. I felt, and to this day (it's been 6 years) feel used.

    Much like your friend his words are there. He says how much I mean to him and talks up our relationship but last night I saw him for the first time in the past 3 months and the time prior to that I saw him was only cos we were both attending a friend's wedding and he asked if I'd be willing to drive rather than take the (rather costly) Shinkansen (bullet train) to Tokyo. Since they moved into their new apartment last December I've been invited over twice: December 26th and last night (July 16th.) His wife is pregnant and they have a lot to deal with. I understand that and take all that into account. But by and large my being invited over doesn't affect that stuff and I know they socialise regularly with people in their more immediate area. Again, I repeat; 'used.' I feel like a friend of convenience; someone who was there for him when he was outside his comfort zone. I also feel like he's an "out of sight, out of mind" type; focusing largely on his immediate life and easily forgetting and neglecting those not on his direct radar.

    Anyway, onto your questions:

    My general questions are;
    Is this a normal INFJ/INFP complaint? For me it is, though the roles are reversed!
    ...or maybe just a normal INFJ complaint? I wish "my" INFJ would show as much concern for our relationship....
    Should I be taking the hint? I'm not sure there's a hint to be taken. Perhaps idealists in general are inclined to try and talk everything up: we want to tell people "yes, you're awesome and special" but lack the genuine feelings to truly actualise that. People-pleasing, perhaps?
    Is there a possibility that I'm being used? Sad to say but I think that possibility exists, yes. Much like my friend I seriously doubt your friend is aware they are using you, if they are, and certainly is not doing it maliciously or intentionally. But sometimes people fall into the "fair-weather" (or even "foul-weather") friend category and can be neglected the instant that person is back to whatever is 'normal' for them.
    Am I worrying too much/ trying to connect things that actually aren't or shouldn't be connected? If you care (which you clearly do) worrying is not something you can help. Maybe this person is just skittish and absent-minded? But maybe she doesn't value you like you do her and her words are just the optimistic people-pleasing of an idealist?

    Specifically to the INFPs;
    Is this normal behavior, for you? If so, why? (I ask so that I can understand and at least try to accept the fact that it is, if it is). Can I do anything about it, except confront her? INFPs can be aloof. Honestly if I were acting how she is acting it would imply I didn't feel as close to you as you to me and was trying to maintain a degree of distance. But I would be more honest about it and not lead you on with pretty words!
    Might she be sending some kind of hint? Like I say maybe the forced distance is an attempt to set the boundaries of your relationship, essentially that she doesn't feel that close to you. But there is a connection and she occasionally likes to indulge that at times (which is grossly unfair to you.) I don't know. I'm only going off of what you've said here.... plus a possibly unhealthy degree of transferring!
    ToiletWater13 thanked this post.


 
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