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Strippers Have Feelings Too?

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This is a discussion on Strippers Have Feelings Too? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Originally Posted by Psilocin Yeah, because one should live life based on the way others think they should. Find "Ideals" ...

  1. #21
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Psilocin View Post
    Yeah, because one should live life based on the way others think they should. Find "Ideals" again? Not everything in this world is lovely, nice, happy or fun. Ideals don't make this world: Principles do. Fuck off with the way you think people should do things. Let him and the strippers do what they want.
    Fuck "Values" and "Morals". We already live this life with enough restrictions. Why place more restrictions on the psyche?

    Edit: I'd like to iterate that I don't think you're a bad person and I have no problem with you. You can live life the way you want to and, if living life with values is what you want, go for it. I think that's just lovely and I hope you have a wonderful life like that. I really honestly do.


    Yeah, because it was never the stripper's choice to uh... Start taking off their clothes for money.

    Fuck strip clubs. When was the last time you went to a buffet to just look at and smell the food? Women you can talk to and share a thing called intimacy with are a lot better than that fake shit.


    Just because there aren't feelings attached doesn't mean it isn't real. Both people know why they're going to a strip club. The lack of intimacy. The cold, unemotional sexual energy. No strings attached. Why see that as bad?

    If I go to a strip bar, I'm not going to exploit their past. I'm going there to exploit their present. They made the choice to start doing that and who the fuck are you to say someone else is a bad person for taking advantage of that? Hop off your moral high horse. They put themselves in that place.

    Hell, if anything, he's putting food on their plate. That's their profession. They can change it at any time they like. All it takes is a choice. Excuse my lack of sympathy but it's just counter-intuitive to get all angry at someone that goes to a strip club because they're "Exploiting psychological disorders D:." If you're so pissed off about it, why not try to help these women by starting a college fund or trying to help them get a new job? There are more productive ways to get these women help than yelling at a dude, on the internet, that got drunk at a club. Seriously.

    Your certainly right. Strippers make the choice to start dancing, and people may want the emotional detachment. I certainly agree that if people want to choose to go to those establishments it should be their choice.

    I'll forgive your lack of sympathy. You probably don't know too many strippers, and probably have not studied the subject too terribly deeply.

    I have an undergrad degree in Sociology and volunteer at a local Rape Recovery Center. I have a friend who is a former escort dancer (stripper). We work with several women at the RRC who are former strippers. I've studied with an emphasis on social problems, which covered among many things, pornography, stripping, and prostitution.

    I don't mean to be just throwing all these credentials in your face just to win an argument, but it really will make you sad when you learn what a sad lie the sex industry is. It's a common misconception, especially with men, that strippers, prostitutes, and porn stars like sex, and enjoy what they do. The truth is that some of them do, but MOST are suffering from symptoms of depression related to a PTSD like condition related to rape and severe prolonged molestation. It sounds weird, but many of them enter the business BECAUSE they think it's where worthless whores are supposed to work, it matches what they feel on the inside.
    LadyJava, leiroz, KerryLee and 1 others thanked this post.

  2. #22
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Quote Originally Posted by dritalin View Post
    Your certainly right. Strippers make the choice to start dancing, and people may want the emotional detachment. I certainly agree that if people want to choose to go to those establishments it should be their choice.

    I'll forgive your lack of sympathy. You probably don't know too many strippers, and probably have not studied the subject too terribly deeply.

    I have an undergrad degree in Sociology and volunteer at a local Rape Recovery Center. I have a friend who is a former escort dancer (stripper). We work with several women at the RRC who are former strippers. I've studied with an emphasis on social problems, which covered among many things, pornography, stripping, and prostitution.

    I don't mean to be just throwing all these credentials in your face just to win an argument, but it really will make you sad when you learn what a sad lie the sex industry is. It's a common misconception, especially with men, that strippers, prostitutes, and porn stars like sex, and enjoy what they do. The truth is that some of them do, but MOST are suffering from symptoms of depression related to a PTSD like condition related to rape and severe prolonged molestation. It sounds weird, but many of them enter the business BECAUSE they think it's where worthless whores are supposed to work, it matches what they feel on the inside.
    I'll never watch porn the same way again. ;_;

    Well, at least not for the next 20 minutes. I love having the resilience of a mind with a low attention span. :3

    But, I do have to say that it's awesome that you take an active step in helping the women that need it. There are a lot of people out there that bitch about it and few that actually do anything. I can tell you're a good person that actually cares for others.

  3. #23
    INFP - The Idealists


    Quote Originally Posted by dritalin View Post
    Your certainly right. Strippers make the choice to start dancing, and people may want the emotional detachment. I certainly agree that if people want to choose to go to those establishments it should be their choice.

    I'll forgive your lack of sympathy. You probably don't know too many strippers, and probably have not studied the subject too terribly deeply.

    I have an undergrad degree in Sociology and volunteer at a local Rape Recovery Center. I have a friend who is a former escort dancer (stripper). We work with several women at the RRC who are former strippers. I've studied with an emphasis on social problems, which covered among many things, pornography, stripping, and prostitution.

    I don't mean to be just throwing all these credentials in your face just to win an argument, but it really will make you sad when you learn what a sad lie the sex industry is. It's a common misconception, especially with men, that strippers, prostitutes, and porn stars like sex, and enjoy what they do. The truth is that some of them do, but MOST are suffering from symptoms of depression related to a PTSD like condition related to rape and severe prolonged molestation. It sounds weird, but many of them enter the business BECAUSE they think it's where worthless whores are supposed to work, it matches what they feel on the inside.
    Quote Originally Posted by dritalin View Post
    In posts you've made in the past it seems like you really do deep down want to find a nice girl, here's a clue, stop going to strip clubs.
    I tend to live and act in extremes. I seem to be lacking moderation where I need it the most. In conversations, I vary between saying too much and making an ass out of myself or saying nothing at all and creeping people out. The only way I'm ever going to have a successful relationship with a woman is if I forsake my emotions until I'm absolutely, positively certain that she is emotionally attached to me. Even then, I would have to keep my emotions in check to not smother her and push her away. I never had a problem with fidelity in relationships; I just have way too much passion for any one woman to handle. [cheers to the stripper] You seem to think that strippers are the only people who have been emotionally scarred. If I had more self-respect, I wouldn't be there either. No one is forcing them to expose their bodies. I used to look down on strip clubs too, and guys who went there for amusement. I had a pretty self-righteous mentality, myself. Chill out bro. I'm just a man; I have needs too. Prostitution is illegal. Strip clubs are a legal, socially acceptable environment of leisure.

  4. #24
    ISFP - The Artists

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
    Sorry about this thread y'all. I was not in a sober state of mind when I posted it.
    Thanks for posting this while drunk. You are a real human. I hope the lap dance was good.

  5. #25
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Beloved,

    Are you sure you're not really an INFJ? ;-) Cos you sound so like me with this: ''The only way I'm ever going to have a successful relationship with a woman is if I forsake my emotions until I'm absolutely, positively certain that she is emotionally attached to me. Even then, I would have to keep my emotions in check to not smother her and push her away. I never had a problem with fidelity in relationships''

    In reality tho, I suspect you will always become emotionally attached, even if you are not sure the woman in question reciprocates, because that's the way you are. A great capacity to love totally and faithfully is a powerful thing, but the pain when things go badly wrong is also powerful too because you probably wanted that to be reciprocated more than words could possibly descibe.

    Go easy on yourself, and be true to the way of loving someone that is your way. Yes, you will get hurt more than most others, but when you are in love you will love more than most do too. When that is reciprocated by someone what is like minded, you will barely be able to believe that such a wonderful thing is possible :-) Dont try to be or act like someone else, someone lesser, it isn't you.

  6. #26
    INFP - The Idealists

    Yah. I wish I had more than just ideals. I'm not knocking anyone for looking, Lord knows I like my naked women. Vices are what vices do, It just sort of changes your perspective a bit when you know the truth behind all the lies. I think we all know that good quality relationships are far better than the alternatives, but when you can't get a good quality relationship, what are you to do?

    Here's part of the problem I have with it all. Love is great, but who needs a real woman when porn/strippers/prostitution look way better than the real thing, will do anything you want (pay for), and don't have needs of their own to fulfill. It's like a Big Mac Supersize, it's just too much unwholesome food. You start to get fat and crave nothing but stuff that makes you fatter. The porn/strippers in my mind, for what it is directly to us, is not better/worse than eating fast food. Some people like it, some people don't, chances are it's a quick easy meal that tastes good though, but nobody can really argue that it's not unhealthy for you.

    So if you like naked women, fine, that's part of life. My problem is in defending prostitution/porn/strippers as normal, healthy outlets with no victims. I really feel bad for the women in those industries, because more often then not they've had hard lives, and the work just confirms they're thoughts of worthlessness. Suicide, depression, and drug use are the norm. It's like all the chickens who are raised in disgusting feed houses so we can eat cheap fried chicken.

    I'm not innocent, not by a long shot. I eat out way more often then I'd like, and sometimes I get a little soft around the waist as a result of it. It takes a lot of work to get myself back to the point where I like to eat good wholesome food (yah, I mean it in THAT allegorical sense ), but in the end it tastes, and feels better. And although Carles Jr. says that real men eat gigantic, ultra fatty shit burgers, I'll take my granola cereal and whole grain bread, and look down my nose at guys that thump their chests over giant shit burgers. Eat it, but take it for what it is.
    snail thanked this post.

  7. #27
    INFP - The Idealists

    What Beloved needs, desperately, is for someone to love him out of his bitterness, but the last time I tried to do that for someone, it was a miserable failure that put me in a dangerous situation.

    Are there any volunteers here who would be willing to prove to Beloved that not all women will reject him for being an F type, or for being too emotionally intense? He shouldn't have to pretend he has no feelings, and I know that most NF women wouldn't expect him to behave that way.

    As for the stripper thing... I disapprove, of course, but I understand that you have your reasons, Beloved. I know that you probably went to the strip club as some form of therapy, and probably left feeling just as lonely and detached from women as ever. If I could find you what you actually need in order to heal, I would. Getting drunk and going to a strip club, then paying a depressed stripper for a lap dance instead of acknowledging her humanity is merely a symptom of your despair and hopelessness. While I find it disturbing, I can attempt to empathize. I have been lonely for most of my life. It's hard to be an INFP at all, and I imagine that it is even harder to be a male INFP. To some extent, I think that all introverted intuitive types have trouble connecting.

    You aren't going about it the right way, but you already know that. I get the sense that you aren't really trying to find the ideal relationship anymore, and are now just behaving in ways that express your pain because you can't imagine finding anything that will actually relieve it. This might put you in danger of settling for an inadequate relationship if you are so miserable that you accept the first thing you can get, or use deception to acquire a partner who is looking for another kind of mate. Please be careful.
    leiroz, Spooky, dritalin and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #28
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by snail View Post
    What Beloved needs, desperately, is for someone to love him out of his bitterness, but the last time I tried to do that for someone, it was a miserable failure that put me in a dangerous situation.

    Are there any volunteers here who would be willing to prove to Beloved that not all women will reject him for being an F type, or for being too emotionally intense? He shouldn't have to pretend he has no feelings, and I know that most NF women wouldn't expect him to behave that way.

    As for the stripper thing... I disapprove, of course, but I understand that you have your reasons, Beloved. I know that you probably went to the strip club as some form of therapy, and probably left feeling just as lonely and detached from women as ever. If I could find you what you actually need in order to heal, I would. Getting drunk and going to a strip club, then paying a depressed stripper for a lap dance instead of acknowledging her humanity is merely a symptom of your despair and hopelessness. While I find it disturbing, I can attempt to empathize. I have been lonely for most of my life. It's hard to be an INFP at all, and I imagine that it is even harder to be a male INFP. To some extent, I think that all introverted intuitive types have trouble connecting.

    You aren't going about it the right way, but you already know that. I get the sense that you aren't really trying to find the ideal relationship anymore, and are now just behaving in ways that express your pain because you can't imagine finding anything that will actually relieve it. This might put you in danger of settling for an inadequate relationship if you are so miserable that you accept the first thing you can get, or use deception to acquire a partner who is looking for another kind of mate. Please be careful.


    Holy shit Snail, you amaze me, you are one smart MFer! What have you been reading lately?
    mslongdari thanked this post.

  9. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by snail View Post
    Are there any volunteers here who would be willing to prove to Beloved that not all women will reject him for being an F type, or for being too emotionally intense? He shouldn't have to pretend he has no feelings, and I know that most NF women wouldn't expect him to behave that way.
    i'd be willing to penpal
    and i second dritalin, very well put snail.

  10. #30
    INFJ - The Protectors

    ''I get the sense that you aren't really trying to find the ideal relationship anymore, and are now just behaving in ways that express your pain because you can't imagine finding anything that will actually relieve it. This might put you in danger of settling for an inadequate relationship if you are so miserable that you accept the first thing you can get, or use deception to acquire a partner who is looking for another kind of mate''

    Snail - I was interested reading this, because although i know it was written about Beloved but I can see a lot of myself in that state of mind too. In my case I am loathed to accept an inadiquate relationship, but I can't settle for being on my own.
    Spooky and pianopraze thanked this post.


 
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