[Enneagram Type 2] Using (dis)integration for personal growth

Using (dis)integration for personal growth

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This is a discussion on Using (dis)integration for personal growth within the Type 2 Forum - The Helper forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; Disclaimer: The following is based on my own personal experience of trying to understand the Enneagram theory and learn to ...

  1. #1
    Type 2w1


    Using (dis)integration for personal growth

    Disclaimer: The following is based on my own personal experience of trying to understand the Enneagram theory and learn to use it to discover aspects of myself I have not been aware of. Its purpose is to show you something I have come to discover for myself and I hope it's something you will spend some time to think about. I am by no means an "expert" on the theory and I would like you, the reader, to simply ponder about the points I am going to make and see whether they apply to you.


    2 integrates to 4



    If you are a 2 and know enough about 4s, I am pretty confident you will be able to relate when I say that it's a type I am very drawn towards to. Both are image types and both are feelings-oriented, looking quite similar at first glance.

    But there are certain glaring differences that add a mystery to this type in the eyes of a 2. The melancholy of the 4 and the tendency to "fall in love" with sadness is something that a 2 will immediately notice. The 2 will feel a need to nurture the 4 and take away the sadness, since accepting it as something useful in the big picture of things is almost incomprehensible to the 2, a type that spends a great deal of time hiding negative emotions and being ashamed of them.

    However, this is one of the lessons our type is not initially aware of, something that 4s know very well. All emotions are sacred. 2s spend their lives focusing on love and other emotions we deem as "positive" while wanting to get rid of any negativity. A 2 integrating to 4 comes to realize that this actually hinders personal growth, as we become blindsided and lose our sense of self by not actually experiencing the emotions we consider to be negative. We keep trying to be superhuman by dismissing negative emotion as a flaw of human nature.

    4s teach us that not only is it okay to be yourself, your real human self and experience all emotions but that it's fucking beautiful to be that way.

    Nonetheless, I should also clarify that I believe that one can misuse this connection to 4s and fall into the same trap 4s tend to fall into; losing oneself in the negativity. This may sound absurd considering the natural positive outlook of the 2, but if you think about it this is precisely what often triggers our disintegration: a sudden connection to a negative feeling that we don't know how to handle because of our lack of experience in doing so.

    2 disintegrates to 8


    These two types seem to differ like night and day at first glance and various stereotypes have sadly strengthened that impression. By looking deeper, one can notice a few similarities: both types want control. Both types focus on people. Both types want to feel powerful. The aforementioned traits work very differently in practice for each type, but their origin is the same.

    Let me make clear that from a 2's perspective, that desire to control is something we are ashamed of and thus hide it. Our desire to become powerful starts with a different goal compared to an 8 (whose desire for power is something craved for the 8's own self and ambitions), our goal being having enough power to be there for the people we want to protect and become a beacon of light, a pillar of strength for them.

    As a 2 begins to disintegrate, these traits become more noticeable. Controlling tendencies arise while the 2 becomes deluded and thinks this is all for the sake of helping others. We start to subtly want power, wishing we could make all our problems go away, even wishing that the world was different. We want to change reality and make it bend to our will.

    Sooner or later, a 2 realizes that this is a betrayal to the core desire. The love for our own self becomes poisoned and corrupted along with our love for others, resulting in the very feelings we've struggled so hard to hide: loathing, anger, sadness. Upon realizing this, our superego strikes us hard, directing those feelings to our own self. We feel we deserve to be punished, often thinking we don't even deserve to live anymore.

    Getting back on one's feet from this is a real challenge. Once that is fully accomplished, however, a 2 learns valuable lessons by having seen things in the eyes of an 8. We learn that we can only truly grow by focusing on our own needs, goals and desires. This kind of selfishness is actually healthy, something that 8s are aware of.

    This doesn't mean that by realizing this we become less helpful and loving. On the contrary, by learning how to love and take proper care of ourselves we become more powerful to actually be there for those we want to help! We discover that we need to achieve a balance of selfishness and selflessness.


    Conclusion



    We've got so much to learn from both types that affect our integration and disintegration respectively. I wish to break the stereotype that "4 traits help us grow, 8 traits make us unhealthy". I don't think "black and white" applies to anything in life and I'm glad that it's much more complicated than that!

    This has been a wonderful experience towards self-growth for me and I am looking forward to growing up even more as a person from everything I've learned so far. I am genuinely interested in your opinion on all this and I hope you have learned something new, or at least that this thread has given you some good food for thought.

    Whether you are a type 2 or not, dear reader, I hope you keep growing towards becoming the person you've always wanted to be.
    ster, Elizabeth, Donovan and 31 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    Type 1w9

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveternity View Post
    4s teach us that not only is it okay to be yourself, your real human self and experience all emotions but that it's fucking beautiful to be that way.

    Nonetheless, I should also clarify that I believe that one can misuse this connection to 4s and fall into the same trap 4s tend to fall into; losing oneself in the negativity. This may sound absurd considering the natural positive outlook of the 2, but if you think about it this is precisely what often triggers our disintegration: a sudden connection to a negative feeling that we don't know how to handle because of our lack of experience in doing so.

    [...]
    Getting back on one's feet from this is a real challenge. Once that is fully accomplished, however, a 2 learns valuable lessons by having seen things in the eyes of an 8. We learn that we can only truly grow by focusing on our own needs, goals and desires. This kind of selfishness is actually healthy, something that 8s are aware of.

    This doesn't mean that by realizing this we become less helpful and loving. On the contrary, by learning how to love and take proper care of ourselves we become more powerful to actually be there for those we want to help! We discover that we need to achieve a balance of selfishness and selflessness.


    Conclusion



    We've got so much to learn from both types that affect our integration and disintegration respectively. I wish to break the stereotype that "4 traits help us grow, 8 traits make us unhealthy". I don't think "black and white" applies to anything in life and I'm glad that it's much more complicated than that!
    Love these parts man! Nice job, I think your personal experiences truly help you be a better man. People can definitely benefit from your experiences. :)
    Loveternity and amongfirstslugs thanked this post.

  3. #3

    Truly Amazing! Beautiful! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
    Younique, Loveternity and fatum210 thanked this post.

  4. #4
    Type 6w5

    I kind of want this to be stickied.
    Etherea, Loveternity and fatum210 thanked this post.

  5. #5
    Type 9w1

    @timeless Could you sticky this thread please?
    Loveternity thanked this post.

  6. #6
    Type 8w9



    Quote Originally Posted by Etherea View Post
    @timeless Could you sticky this thread please?
    This thread is now a lot stickier. :D
    Cantarella, Eerie, Etherea and 6 others thanked this post.

  7. #7
    Type 2w1


    Quote Originally Posted by timeless View Post
    This thread is now a lot stickier. :D
    Wow, I did not see that coming when I started the thread. Thank you very much!
    timeless, Etherea, stephiphi and 1 others thanked this post.

  8. #8
    Type 2

    Wow, I can totally see my personal journey on this post. I didn't know I was integrating/disintegrating into/out of anything... but this is clearly the things I've always worked on.

    I truly and sincerely believe ALL emotions are needed, even the most destructive ones. I use a metaphor for this, which I explained in this comment and it's follow up comments. This other thread explains my method for dealing with all that junk-ish feelings without falling to them and becoming what I don't want to ever be.

    I also came up to the same conclusion myself, but I phrase it differently. I learned I can only help other people by focusing on my own needs/goals/desires first and be respectful to them. That way I will be healthier, which will in turn make me more helpful and "health-inspiring" to other people, therefore meeting my goals stronger than if I didn't care about myself first.

    I'm not sure I could have found the words to explain this whole process so easily. Thank you so much for posting this :)
    Younique and Loveternity thanked this post.

  9. #9
    Type 2w1

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveternity View Post
    We've got so much to learn from both types that affect our integration and disintegration respectively.


    Thank you so much for sharing! My husband is an 8, so by living with him, I have started to develop a lot of 8 traits, even more strongly than a 2 would without being influenced by an 8 I'd assume. Some of those traits are bad, and they mess with my 2 core, while other's build me up to be stronger and less passive. So within the last few days I have started to look deeper into my enneagam and what it means, along with my tritype and all of my wings. It's been such a self discovery that although I have felt much of the things described within a 2's description, I could never exactly analyze it properly, being very confused by it's contradictory (such as loving people in abundance yet not wanting to be bothered by them much and a lot of disconnect which is the main reason for the not wanting to be bothered (really meaning not wanting to be bothered with my inferior skills to connect.)).

    I've found myself becoming like a more unhealthy 2w1 with a lot of 8 influence. In the midst of this, I began to fee uncomfortable with who I was becoming. Very self indulgent, selfish and just not myself. Which led me to read up some more about myself to see where this was all coming from. I have learned a lot by going deeper into both my husbands enneagram & my own to see why this is running so rapid in me. And this post has really put the icing on the cake.

    I secretly long for the love, attention and show of the importance I mean to people. I get completely unhappy, yet I manage it all so well. Being unhappy is simply not an option, but every now and then I will break down completely for about an hour. Feelings I don't want anyone to see, but these feelings want to be heard. I know now that I am very unhealthy and that I need to get started doing something that seems meaningful in my life. I love that you stated that 4's are in love with sadness, since I am madly.

    There is a lot of greatness to be gained from spiraling down to the lowest of your core, I haven't quite reaped the benefits of it at this point here today, but I expect that with this abundance of knowledge I have consumed and with the urgency to correct it, I will be there in no time.

    @Loveternity I believe I am on a quest from the Lord, and when I say this, I hope you can feel where I am coming from with this. This amount of clarity has answered a lot of my prayers, and I can assume that with the grace of God, it will be a quest to complete happiness and content. You are a blessing from God himself to written what you have, and I just want you to know how very grateful I am for your decision to write and publish this <3 God bless you!


    God Bless all of you & I hope that this posts finds someone else who will appreciate such a beautiful butterfly of a transition that's about to take place in their life...

  10. #10
    Type 4w3

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveternity View Post
    Disclaimer: The following is based on my own personal experience of trying to understand the Enneagram theory and learn to use it to discover aspects of myself I have not been aware of. Its purpose is to show you something I have come to discover for myself and I hope it's something you will spend some time to think about. I am by no means an "expert" on the theory and I would like you, the reader, to simply ponder about the points I am going to make and see whether they apply to you.


    2 integrates to 4



    If you are a 2 and know enough about 4s, I am pretty confident you will be able to relate when I say that it's a type I am very drawn towards to. Both are image types and both are feelings-oriented, looking quite similar at first glance.

    But there are certain glaring differences that add a mystery to this type in the eyes of a 2. The melancholy of the 4 and the tendency to "fall in love" with sadness is something that a 2 will immediately notice. The 2 will feel a need to nurture the 4 and take away the sadness, since accepting it as something useful in the big picture of things is almost incomprehensible to the 2, a type that spends a great deal of time hiding negative emotions and being ashamed of them.

    However, this is one of the lessons our type is not initially aware of, something that 4s know very well. All emotions are sacred. 2s spend their lives focusing on love and other emotions we deem as "positive" while wanting to get rid of any negativity. A 2 integrating to 4 comes to realize that this actually hinders personal growth, as we become blindsided and lose our sense of self by not actually experiencing the emotions we consider to be negative. We keep trying to be superhuman by dismissing negative emotion as a flaw of human nature.

    4s teach us that not only is it okay to be yourself, your real human self and experience all emotions but that it's fucking beautiful to be that way.

    Nonetheless, I should also clarify that I believe that one can misuse this connection to 4s and fall into the same trap 4s tend to fall into; losing oneself in the negativity. This may sound absurd considering the natural positive outlook of the 2, but if you think about it this is precisely what often triggers our disintegration: a sudden connection to a negative feeling that we don't know how to handle because of our lack of experience in doing so.

    2 disintegrates to 8


    These two types seem to differ like night and day at first glance and various stereotypes have sadly strengthened that impression. By looking deeper, one can notice a few similarities: both types want control. Both types focus on people. Both types want to feel powerful. The aforementioned traits work very differently in practice for each type, but their origin is the same.

    Let me make clear that from a 2's perspective, that desire to control is something we are ashamed of and thus hide it. Our desire to become powerful starts with a different goal compared to an 8 (whose desire for power is something craved for the 8's own self and ambitions), our goal being having enough power to be there for the people we want to protect and become a beacon of light, a pillar of strength for them.

    As a 2 begins to disintegrate, these traits become more noticeable. Controlling tendencies arise while the 2 becomes deluded and thinks this is all for the sake of helping others. We start to subtly want power, wishing we could make all our problems go away, even wishing that the world was different. We want to change reality and make it bend to our will.

    Sooner or later, a 2 realizes that this is a betrayal to the core desire. The love for our own self becomes poisoned and corrupted along with our love for others, resulting in the very feelings we've struggled so hard to hide: loathing, anger, sadness. Upon realizing this, our superego strikes us hard, directing those feelings to our own self. We feel we deserve to be punished, often thinking we don't even deserve to live anymore.

    Getting back on one's feet from this is a real challenge. Once that is fully accomplished, however, a 2 learns valuable lessons by having seen things in the eyes of an 8. We learn that we can only truly grow by focusing on our own needs, goals and desires. This kind of selfishness is actually healthy, something that 8s are aware of.

    This doesn't mean that by realizing this we become less helpful and loving. On the contrary, by learning how to love and take proper care of ourselves we become more powerful to actually be there for those we want to help! We discover that we need to achieve a balance of selfishness and selflessness.


    Conclusion



    We've got so much to learn from both types that affect our integration and disintegration respectively. I wish to break the stereotype that "4 traits help us grow, 8 traits make us unhealthy". I don't think "black and white" applies to anything in life and I'm glad that it's much more complicated than that!

    This has been a wonderful experience towards self-growth for me and I am looking forward to growing up even more as a person from everything I've learned so far. I am genuinely interested in your opinion on all this and I hope you have learned something new, or at least that this thread has given you some good food for thought.

    Whether you are a type 2 or not, dear reader, I hope you keep growing towards becoming the person you've always wanted to be.


    Awesome post. I have lately been starting to see how both my line to 2 and 1 shape me. I think my line to 1 can sometimes even be more pronounced when I am unhealthy! I can become really critical of myself and of the people around me, then even I sometimes get quite bossy.

    I feel like a healthy 2 when I can sometimes reach "outside" myself, realize that other people have similar or even deeper pain than I, and then suddenly I just am moved with deep compassion for others and want to help them. They are rare moments so far, but when it happens, then I feel the feeling of beauty and wonder and a deep connection to others in the world. Many 4's on perC might disagree and still say that disintegrating to 2 is the worst thing for a 4 to do. But I think we just don't realize the good that comes from it yet. I also think things are not black and white and there's still much to be discovered about the true nature of growth with the enneagram.

    I even read this new theory of growth that says we must move centers and grow in a clock-wise fashion. So that means a 4 cannot just grow to a 1 directly. That is moving counter-clockwise. The real growth will happen when we move to 7 (head center) and then 1 (body center).

    This explains a lot. A 4 who suffers from melancholy can find a way out by acting like a 7, being more involved in the joys of the world, being more appreciative of the good things in life. Then after experiencing the outer world, we can become more objective and really see truth like a healthy 1 because we will have understood the inner world (of ourselves and humanity) and the outer world, through active participation in it like a 7.

    For a 2, in addition to a type 4 growth, they might move to 5 (head center), then 8 (body center). It was thought that if we move the numbers so each type sits where 9 does on the circle, then we all follow a triangular shape too. It is called the hidden path.

    So have any 2's ever felt like a 5 before? I guess this would be the feeling of intense curiosity of the world, deep contemplation about its mysteries.

    It's a new way to think about the enneagram. I'm actually new to the enneagram, but from personal experience, these other theories make sense to me. Like our paths of integration and disintegration aren't so black and white and that we may utilize the perspectives of two other types, in different centers, following a clock-wise motion, to really grow.
    Last edited by Ryosuke93; 03-19-2013 at 01:39 AM.


 
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