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Explaining Ti to Fi types

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This is a discussion on Explaining Ti to Fi types within the Articles forums, part of the Announcements category; I have some pride in both my logic and values and I tend to be threatened when either of them ...

  1. #11

    I have some pride in both my logic and values and I tend to be threatened when either of them are put in question. Thus, this thread doesn't seem to help me. I go back and forth over whether I am T or F, but to no final conclusion. I've been more steadily testing INFP (FiTe) than INTP (TiFe) recently but it still is questionable.
    Musique247 thanked this post.

  2. #12

    If you're trying to decide whether you're more Fi-Te or Ti-Fe, you may also want to look at Fe and Te rather than just Ti and Fi. Te and Fe are both considered objective.

    FeTi prompts us to deal with ethics and morality collectively, according to a more generalized standard that we can all agree to be bound by, while dealing with logic and impersonal ideas in a more individualized and subjective way, seeking only to find what makes sense logically to the individual.

    TeFi prompts us to deal with logic and impersonal ideas collectively, according to a more generalized objective standard which we can all agree to use to quantify and measure impersonal ideas by the same method, while dealing with ethics according to an internalized and subjective standard, seeking only to find what feels right to the individual.

  3. #13

    I think I go back and forth about whether I consider ethics collective or individual. I need to figure out which one I use so I can be disgusted at the other one...

    subjective logic, though? That seems like a oxymoron to me. o.o I'm trying to figure out the purpose...or its probably an end rather than a means, but that just makes it more difficult to understand. How logic can have value? no, value is an Fi word, but I only have Te and Fi to crossreference to try and understand it. Gah *fails at Ti* XD

    so 2+2 could equal 5 if they woudln't have decided that it equals 4? I've actually heard that from a Ti user before. I asked him if he had two objects and I had two more objects and we put them together, could they ever become five objects? He just said I didn't get what he was saying.
    Nomenclature, barbalootSuits and surgery thanked this post.

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    FeTi prompts us to deal with ethics and morality collectively, according to a more generalized standard that we can all agree to be bound by, while dealing with logic and impersonal ideas in a more individualized and subjective way, seeking only to find what makes sense logically to the individual.

    TeFi prompts us to deal with logic and impersonal ideas collectively, according to a more generalized objective standard which we can all agree to use to quantify and measure impersonal ideas by the same method, while dealing with ethics according to an internalized and subjective standard, seeking only to find what feels right to the individual.
    When I first read this, I understood what you were getting at, but it seem slightly over generalized. As I began to mull it over, I finally found the missing puzzle piece I had been looking for.

    I have always been okay with Fi as long as it wasn't dangerous(being an ISFJ and all), however I have always had a problem with Te and I never knew why. I would see my TeFi friends discussing things and it would drive me insane. My mind instantly went to tearing apart the inconsistencies in their thinking, but if I ever brought up an idea, I was usually shut down or ignored. I once even had a friend tell me that I just "think wrong"; he could not explain it though.

    This also explains why TeFi individuals sometimes seem oblivious to social nuances. I have had INFP's ask why are people telling me not to do something in public, and that they are not socially inept. Congruently, this also explains why some people see FeTi users as prudes.

    As long as things are not harmful, its fun to have a TeFi user around, they make things interesting, but its also good to have a FeTi user to keep things grounded. Its all about balance, and respecting what other individuals have to offer. "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."(Romans 12:18)

    Thank you, this was really helpful.
    R22 and Tengwar thanked this post.

  6. #15

    I really love your articles. They are always informative and well written.

    There is just one aspect of Ji/Je that seems to be missing:
    Ji wants to find out what is inherently true, and Je wants to find out what works.

    I'm an INTJ, and when someone presents an idea to me, the first thing for me to judge about is whether it could ever reasonably be applied. I would, for example, never ponder the system of communism, because it has been tried and failed. I see the merit in ideas that are not directly applicable, but ideas that contradict what I see as reality have no value for me, and sometimes even seem offensive. When it comes to moral values, however, I feel that some things are just true, and though we cannot always act after them (my Te keeps them in check), they are the ultimate "right" in an abstract way.
    R22 thanked this post.

  7. #16

    I've had a problem debating with conservatives over capitalism, which they (likely J's) see as working. When I show it does not work for everybody, and that they have skewed certain truths of the situation (especially in placing blame for the things they are complaining about, which then are apparently not working, and then talking about stuff like who deserves, or does not deserve, or is getting/taking something wrongly), they accuse me of "trying to implement socialism". But I see that that system did not work either.

    To them, you must choose one or the other, and they become frustrated that I don't seem to "take a stand", and can only find fault, but not suggest anything better. I want to teach them about type, and the fact that I'm a Perceiver, and inclined to react to what I see as wrong in people's judgments.

  8. #17

    Yes, I definitely have difficulty understanding Ti. It is impossible for me to understand the concept of "subjective logic" - it is an oxymoron. In order to be logical, a conclusion or statement must be backed by empirical, objective evidence (scientific logic) or it must be... immaculately reasonable and rational in structure (philosophical logic). The standards for logical argument are an institution which has been agreed upon collectively by scientists, philosophers, etc. The only room for subjectivity is how one interprets the data or the conclusion/statement, if that.
    Sweetish and surgery thanked this post.

  9. #18

    ^ Yeah, that sounds...misled to me. That's why I'm pretty sure I'm an ENTP rather than an ENFP lol

  10. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by rowingineden View Post
    Yes, I definitely have difficulty understanding Ti. It is impossible for me to understand the concept of "subjective logic" - it is an oxymoron. In order to be logical, a conclusion or statement must be backed by empirical, objective evidence (scientific logic) or it must be... immaculately reasonable and rational in structure (philosophical logic). The standards for logical argument are an institution which has been agreed upon collectively by scientists, philosophers, etc. The only room for subjectivity is how one interprets the data or the conclusion/statement, if that.
    Here is a treatment I did on Objective vs Subjective:

    "Objective" and "subjective" are sometimes used to describe both the functions themselves, and their orientation.

    "Extraverted attitudes" (external orientation) are considered "objective", while introverted attitudes are considered "subjective", because they are taking place within the person. Jung had originally defined the attitudes as being focused on "the object" and "the subject". (For perception, the attitude is the "source" it is taken from, and for judgment, it is the source of the "standard" it is based in, and in some descriptions, the "realm" it is used in).

    Thinking is also frequently condsidered "objective", based on logic and facts, while Feeling is considered subjective "values".

    Sensing (concrete perception) is also occasionally considered more "objective", while iNtuiting (abstract) is considered subjective, because it involves the person drawing from patterns and stuff.

    Then, perception in itself can be considered objective, because it is taking information (of an object) in, while judgment is what the subject does with the information.

    With this:
    Objective processing=Perception (P)
    Subjective processing=Judgment (J)
    Objective data=concreteness (S) or logic (T)
    Subjective data=abstractness (N) or value (F)
    Objective source=external (E)
    Subjective source=internal (I)

    The eight functions are then expressed as:

    Objective processing of Objective data from Objective source (OOO): Se
    Objective processing of Objective data from Subjective source (OOS): Si
    Objective processing of Subjective data from Objective source (OSO): Ne
    Objective processing of Subjective data from Subjective source (OSS): Ni
    Subjective processing of Objective data from Objective source (SOO): Te
    Subjective processing of Objective data from Subjective source (SOS): Ti
    Subjective processing of Subjective data from Objective source (SSO): Fe
    Subjective processing of Subjective data from Subjective source (SSS): Fi

    This basically reduces the four dichotomies down to one!
    Dichotomy, Tuttle, Vaka and 8 others thanked this post.

  11. #20

     
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