Are the function axes really opposites?

Are the function axes really opposites?

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  • 1 Post By Maryalliss

This is a discussion on Are the function axes really opposites? within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Are the function axes opposites? Granted, this is a bit semantic and pedantic, but I think it bears important implications ...

  1. #1
    INTP

    Are the function axes really opposites?

    Are the function axes opposites?

    Granted, this is a bit semantic and pedantic, but I think it bears important implications to our understanding of type.

    Instead of asking "is Fi the opposite of Te?" (which will get autopilot "yes" responses) I'll ask "is 'cold night' the opposite of 'hot day'?" and see what you think.


    Hot is the opposite of cold and day is the opposite of night; but hot is not the opposite of night, and cold is not the opposite of day. From a linguistic standpoint, they are unrelated.


    So back to my original question. Are the function axes true opposites?

    Introversion is the opposite of extroversion, and thinking is the opposite of feeling; but feeling is not the opposite of extroversion, and thinking is not the opposite of introversion.

    Both of these examples combine two dichotomous opposites into one dichotomous opposite, which may seem superficially accurate, but on further (albeit pedantic and semantic) examination, their relatedness falls apart.

    This is my proposition.

    1. A true dichotomy is based on a single pair of opposites.
    2. The function axes are not a single pair of opposites.
    3. Therefore, the function axes are not a true dichotomy.

    So, the function axes are BOGUS?

    Please let me know your thoughts!
    Last edited by _He_; 09-08-2018 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Split this into two threads



  2. #2

    LOL this was a little confusing, but I'll try.

    The function axis make a lot of sense.

    They are opposites but they are also COMPENSATORY.

    Cold is not the opposite of day. But the night is always colder then the day. Why? Because during the day you have the Sun. The sun warms the day. You wouldn't have the night if the Sun did not go away. Since you don't have the sun during the night, you have a cold night.
    If you didn't have the night, you would always have the sun and the day. You wouldn't notice the existence of hot, because you wouldn't have the cold night to make you notice the difference.

    To say the day is hot, you need to experience a cold night.

    Thinking is cold. If you want to use Extroverted Thinkinh, you have to push a side your personal internal liking/disliking to be objective and impartial on what makes sense. And if you want to evaluate what is important to you personally, you have to forget about what makes sense externaly.
    If you only use Extroverted Thinking, you have no way of determining what is important to make sense of and what doesn't deserve yyour time. If you only use Introverted Feeling, you will become an allien and you can't arrange the facts to ground your personal likes/dislikes and defend them against the external opinions

    (we are philosofical today.. I did not give my best to explain lol, I hope this is making sense to you)

    It's not enough to say they are opposites. They are compensatory, meaning one only exists because of the other, and one never works without the other. Like the day and the night are opposites and compensatory and they touch each other at some point. And when it is day here, on the other side of the planet (unconscious side of your psyche) it's night (you are just not aware of it).
    Last edited by Guajiro; 09-08-2018 at 08:28 AM.

  3. #3

    Using Fi&Te for example:

    When you are consciously engaging in the cold objective Thinking.... you are unconscious of the warm subjective Feeling.

    If you spend your life engaging in the cold Thinking, formulating a system that makes sense externaly, at some point you will have to wonder what is the value you find in your Extroverted Thinking formula.

    It's not enough to know how and what things should be done. The compensation is in asking yourself what does this formula of doing things says about what you value. And for Fi it is not enough to know what you value and what you despise. How will you do it? Or is it reasonable to expect that from others and from yourself?

    planet-artist.jpg
    Last edited by Guajiro; 09-08-2018 at 08:51 AM.

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  5. #4
    INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Guajiro View Post
    They are compensatory, meaning one only exists because of the other, and one never works without the other.
    I should have used cold day and hot night as examples instead of hot day and cold night, so you couldn't use physics and the sun to get away from what I was saying. xD

    I agree that thinking and feeling are both opposite and compensatory, as well as sensing and intuition; but I don't think that it has to be introverted feeling doing the compensation for Te (or Fe for Ti etc). If everyone has all the functions, the compensation could be done from any function that is the opposite dichotomy to the function that needs it. Fe could help Te, and Ti could help Fi, for example. All the functions need each other. None of the functions is complete in itself without all 7 other functions balancing and correcting it in some way or another. That's just function dynamics.


    I guess we're back to that static, traditional model vs something more fluid and dynamic.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by _He_ View Post
    I should have used cold day and hot night as examples instead of hot day and cold night, so you couldn't use physics and the sun to get away from what I was saying. xD

    I agree that thinking and feeling are both opposite and compensatory, as well as sensing and intuition; but I don't think that it has to be introverted feeling doing the compensation for Te (or Fe for Ti etc). If everyone has all the functions, the compensation could be done from any function that is the opposite dichotomy to the function that needs it. Fe could help Te, and Ti could help Fi, for example. All the functions need each other. None of the functions is complete in itself without all 7 other functions balancing and correcting it in some way or another. That's just function dynamics.


    I guess we're back to that static, traditional model vs something more fluid and dynamic.
    loool haha I still would say that when you have a cold day, the night that will come after the cold day is even colder.

    I think you are forgetting that Jung's model of the psyche is not only the functions. If one function is not complete without the others, then the 8 functions are not complete without all the other stuff. He organized the compensations and opposites from his observations. Each discription of a function is always attached to the influence of it's opposite. To describe Fi you have to describe Te. Did you read anything from what he wrote?
    If you read his discriptions you would understand why the compensations are organized that way. And that the functions are just a piece of other psychic influences.

    I don't see how saying that Fe and Ti give their hands and start dancing arround Fi to make a compensation (just because Day is not the opposite of Cold) would help you understanding each phenomena.

    He organized in a way that would help you understand. If you put energy in one side of the polarity, you are creating at the same time energy on the other side, and that energy will comeback to you... the more you resist it the more neurotic you become.
    Jung's model is very dynamic, not static at all.
    I like dynamic models, but the way you organize it has to observed first and later transformed into a model, not invented based on the fact that the word DAY is not the opposite of COLD.
    Last edited by Guajiro; 09-09-2018 at 12:42 AM.

  7. #6

    There are 4 functions and 2 attitudes, which result in 8 dominant function types. There aren't 8 functions.
    Moo Rice thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Internal and external functions are not opposites. For example Ni and Ne are not opposed but rather inverted in direction. One is exploding outward while the other is converging inwards, both are working towards the same thing.

  9. #8

    It's opposing but connective to each other, like a yin/ yang opposite or two sides of the same coin. Imo Axes reflect each other's hidden sides and perspectives. An easy way to understand a function is to look for their pair in the axes.

  10. #9

    I'll jump on that bandwagon too. Fi and Te are part of the same process of chasing goals based on personal values. You can't see them as separate or really as opposite. If you really look at all of the functions you will see that they all have a complementary part. Ne expands ideas out from known Si information. Ni integrates ideas from Se experiences and Fe uses a Ti rules framework to understand social interactions. None of these can be seen as real opposites.

    If you have a puzzle with two pieces, are the two pieces opposites of eeach other? Sure, one has negative space where the other has positive and the other way around, but calling them opposites would be stretching it I think.


     

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