How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti? - Page 2

How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti?

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This is a discussion on How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti? within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by MD_analyst I understand being a thinker by no means equates to being smart-- I was just trying ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by MD_analyst View Post
    I understand being a thinker by no means equates to being smart-- I was just trying to see how it plays out in people who make decisions based on what will yield the most self-gratification and pleasure, which is usually how people like Charlie and Reese make their decisions. Charlie, I can see more clearly the practical side the more I think about how he pursues his actions, but for Reese...I still have trouble seeing him using Ti to accomplish anything. Is it that he uses whatever limited understanding he has (i.e., superficial use of Ti) to make things work the way he wants? How would his recklessness and impulsive actions look different if he was using Fi?
    I can only speak about Reese as that's what I know the most. Keep in mind that, as a fictional character, he's pretty contradictory.
    I think he's DEFINATELY an ESFP overall though. No, not because he's stupid (thought he's actually shown to be pretty smart in some areas like most Malcom in The Middle are). Also, both Ti and Fi users can be mainly driven by self-gratification, but just approached differently.
    But I think people may type him as an T type because he's mainly mean and violent, which fits a stereotype about T-types.
    T types can be nice, they can be dumb. F types can be pretty sharp, they can also be REALLY mean.

    Reese is mean, but why? It seems that he's being subjected to the bully stereotype and may feel that that's his identity and the only way he's validated as a person. He mainly feels oppressed and his violence is in response of feeling stepped on by others unfairly rather than a need to be above others because of insecurities. He really only wants to be himself but is afraid that he'll be ridiculed and judged by others.
    I think one of the best examples of his Fi showing is when he bought the entire box of caterpillars. He gave them names, was super protective over them and pretty much adopted them, not even once it going through his head how he could use that for practical jokes. He never really had that in his agenda unless it was to get the attention of someone, which is typical of aux Fi.
    Another good one is when he befriends and becomes one with a pack of dogs.
    When he thought that Malcolm was gay, he bought him a gay-porn tape and actually watched the whole thing because he wanted to know that it was gay enough for him, a great example of how Fi works (a very ridiculous, cartoonish one, but a good one nonetheless).

    Fi and Ti can behave similarly. The reasons behind the behavior is usually where we can distinguish them.
    morgandollar thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by MD_analyst View Post
    I understand being a thinker by no means equates to being smart-- I was just trying to see how it plays out in people who make decisions based on what will yield the most self-gratification and pleasure, which is usually how people like Charlie and Reese make their decisions. Charlie, I can see more clearly the practical side the more I think about how he pursues his actions, but for Reese...I still have trouble seeing him using Ti to accomplish anything. Is it that he uses whatever limited understanding he has (i.e., superficial use of Ti) to make things work the way he wants? How would his recklessness and impulsive actions look different if he was using Fi?
    Having personal motivations isn't an attribute of feeling.

    Since we're working heavily with stereotypes:

    Immature/"stupid" Ti can look like the bully, prankster, jackass.

    Immature/"stupid" Fi can look like the "blonde" airhead/ditz, selfish primadona, puppy dog.

    Plus a thousand more tropes, but I don't have time to think of them all or list them all.

    Both can be rebellious. Immature Ti focuses on breaking rules for the sake of rules being stupid. They challenge for the sake of enjoying provoking someone. Immature Fi focuses on breaking rules because they feel suppressed by them. They challenge because they feel personally at threat.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Falling Foxes View Post

    Immature/"stupid" Ti can look like the bully, prankster, jackass.
    Key word here: Jackass. Like the actual show?

    I'm sure a lot of people would type them all as SFPs because only SFPs can be that bold and stupid at the same time, amirite? But I'm convinced most of the are actually TP types.

    I can totally see their thought process being curious about how things work and what will happen if they do this....so let's try it out. Worst case, it'll make people laugh (lower Fe). If anything, a Fi might find those stunts degrading and unbecoming to them, with lower Te chiming in about how stupid this is.

    So case closed on Ti users being natural geniuses.
    Falling Foxes, Pastelle and morgandollar thanked this post.

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester View Post
    Key word here: Jackass. Like the actual show?

    I'm sure a lot of people would type them all as SFPs because only SFPs can be that bold and stupid at the same time, amirite? But I'm convinced most of the are actually TP types.

    I can totally see their thought process being curious about how things work and what will happen if they do this....so let's try it out. Worst case, it'll make people laugh (lower Fe). If anything, a Fi might find those stunts degrading and unbecoming to them, with lower Te chiming in about how stupid this is.

    So case closed on Ti users being natural geniuses.
    Yeah, like the show. And that was my reasoning too for them being Ti over Fi.

  6. #15
    ISFP

    Quote Originally Posted by ANAXEL View Post
    Fi and Ti can behave similarly. The reasons behind the behavior is usually where we can distinguish them.
    If only more people realized this... Fi and Ti have more in common than otherwise. It is kind of funny seeing people who tend to follow their own ideas/beliefs etc always typed as Fi because of the whole Fi is selfish thing, when the person could very well be a Ti-dom. The major difference is the thought process/how the individual reaches a conclusion between Fi and Ti.
    Falling Foxes and morgandollar thanked this post.

  7. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by ANAXEL View Post
    both Ti and Fi users can be mainly driven by self-gratification, but just approached differently.
    ….
    Fi and Ti can behave similarly. The reasons behind the behavior is usually where we can distinguish them.
    Would it be accurate to say that when an Fi user and Ti user are both doing the same thing-- pursuing the same activity for the sake of pleasure and self-gratification-- the difference is that the Fi user's reasons for wanting the self-gratifying activity are based on having personal favorability for the self-gratification itself (i.e., I want to feel free and happy, so I'm going to party and get drunk), while the Ti user's reasons are based on having personal understanding of how they can use the activity to achieve self-gratification (i.e., "I want to party and get drunk because based on my understanding of drinking and partying, I know it can make me feel awesome" <--- an example of unhealthy Ti, due to the bad logic here)?

    But it seems hard to tell which of these reasons underlie a person's motivation for doing something, (I guess that's why they are both "introverted" thinking/feeling), but would some helpful hints of a Fi user include: a stronger expression of their emotional responses when pursuing something; rebelliousness to rules that would interfere with their personal happiness and/or identity; greater concern for preserving an identity/personal well-being?

    While hints of a Ti user include: a more noticeable scheming, mischievous behavior; having a stronger tendency to purposely rebel against rules just for the sake of rebelling; are more focused on preserving their own freedom rather than an identity or well-being, since they find their pleasure more from being free to do as they please (they find their self-gratification from bending the rules just for the sake of bending them to stay free/unconstrained, and not for the sake of preserving their identity/emotional well-being, which is a manifestation of them utilizing their personalized understanding --aka their Ti-- to achieve pleasure and self-gratification)?
    Last edited by MD_analyst; 11-30-2018 at 09:36 AM.

  8. #17
    Unknown

    To me, it is the perception functions that really give people the "why" behind their behaviors while the judgement gives the "what" to it (a bit counterintuitive but I'll elaborate). Perception is the pursuit, the actual focus on the assets of the world. Sensing wants the experiences and intuition chases the concepts (note that I did not include concrete or abstract). Judgement tacks on what those things actually are. Thinking leads one to impersonal categorization while feeling imbues value (I did not say morals or logic!). Lost train of thought when I went to get a drink! Dammit.
    Falling Foxes thanked this post.

  9. #18
    INTP


    everyone has Ti just as everyone has a face, but Ti is no more necessarily intelligent than faces are necessarily intelligent looking

    indeed, there are stupid Ti users just as there are stupid faces

    this forum, for example, is not without examples of the former


    Ti is a faculty (cognition)....intelligence, otoh, is a quality of that faculty and can be present in varying degrees, from high to low, just as faces can be smart or stupid
    Last edited by ae1905; 12-18-2018 at 10:57 AM.
    BenjiMac thanked this post.

  10. #19
    ENTP

    A Ti user can look like a complete dumbass, because alot of the thinking happens internally. It's similar to why an Fi user can appear cold, even though they're fuzzy on the inside. So an Ne/Ti user looks like a goofball (like the insectoid above), while an Se/Ti user looks like a jock/jackass (generally speaking). It's the Te'ers who tend to have a more rational appearance/demeanor. However, when we do extravert our T many people are often surprised as fuck. It's really funny. I especially had this problem when I was in my teens. I rarely extraverted my T and many people literally thought I was an idiot (because of my generally wacky behaviour which I couldn't stop myself from doing even if I tried, bane of Ne existence), even though I was actually "smarter" than them. Now, I do it much more (confidence probably) plus it's also more developped. These same people might feel a bit intimidated now I suspect.
    Last edited by Zidane; 12-18-2018 at 10:53 PM.

  11. #20

    I think it's a lot more common than people think. The lower IQ Ti-users just don't tend to make the same impression that high IQ Ti-users make.

    For example: I have an ENTP student with a quite low IQ (he can't help it, that's just how he was born). It takes a lot of effort to explain things to him and he asks questions all the time. Yet, when he eventually understands things, he does have a very fundamental understanding of it. It takes him longer to get there, but he does have this Ti-way of understanding things (as well as the Ne quality of thinking of different options and asking questions to try and find holes in the theory).
    He got the highest grade in his class on math, while he's definitely not the smartest.

    So Ti doesn't mean smart, it's a certain way of structuring information and rules. High Ti-users are good at internally structuring their thoughts and make up abstract systems of rules. That's opposed to the Te-users that use external structuring.


     
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