How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti?

How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti?

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This is a discussion on How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti? within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; I've noticed that most people agree upon xxTP for certain TV show characters that aren't necessarily considered smart, intellectual, or ...

  1. #1

    How could someone who is dumb and pleasure-seeking still have dominant/auxiliary Ti?

    I've noticed that most people agree upon xxTP for certain TV show characters that aren't necessarily considered smart, intellectual, or curious like most dominant/auxiliary Ti users tend to be. For example, there seems to be a general consensus that Charlie Harper from Two and a Half Men is ESTP rather than ESFP, and Reese from the show Malcolm in the Middle is also typed as ESTP over ESFP, even though he's dumb AF and makes most of his decisions based on what brings him pleasure, with almost no interest in using his head.

    So this makes me wonder...what does a dumb Ti user really look like? If someone lacks intelligence and doesn't seem to use any logic when making decisions, why/how would such a person still have dominant/auxiliary Ti?
    Sensational and morgandollar thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFJ

    Being a thinker doesn't mean someone is smart, being a feeler doesn't mean someone is dumb. Also Ti can look dumb at times because it's inward thinking, it's not on display so they might be doing a lot of 3d chess internally making tons of considerations automatically and just have a blank stare/look unaffected. Ti is always looking at all the deep implications of some logical consideration and not just steamrolling through problems out in the open like Te.

    Ti just means you process internally via systematization of data, doesn't mean you're necessarily intelligent or that your systems are accurate/effective/insightful/whatever. There are a lot of Ti users that give off a vibe of being "dumb," a lot of ESTPs have that vibe just because they are extremely casual. Think of Trump or dubya before him. Well a) being smart or dumb is not type related and b) appearing dumb does not necessarily equate to being dumb.

  3. #3

    Lmao! Still relying on stereotypes huh? Go back to type school pleb. You've still got very much to learn
    Surreal Snake, Jawz, Sensational and 3 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    1) Ti (or Te) doesn't automatically = smart. It's just judging functions that are slave to the user's so if the user is messed up so will they as well.

    2) Se loves to push boundaries, it just does. An immature STP type may have strong Ti but still have this tendency to have Se speak over it and thus not look before it leaps

    3) NTPs are typically known more as ''thinkers'' in literal sense because Ne is very mental. They can still be dumb as bricks. Sheldon Cooper from TBBT for instance. Says the most stupid and random shit on top of his head. Him being considered a ''genius'' is purely subjective and 99% of the time, he's the one to make that claim.

    4) There are may mature and sharp STPs out there. They are borderline super human, able to totally improvise in the heat of any situation and come out of it winning, whether it be a salesmen making a ridiculously unlikely sale or a paramedic who saves someone's life against all odds due to quick analytical thinking and action.

    5) Fictional works prefer the stereotypical jock/dumbass or relentless lady's man ESTP stereotype because those characters just write themselves. ISTPs on the other hand tend to be extremely sharp and resourceful in fiction, so they have nothing to complain about.
    JennyJukes, wums, Sensational and 6 others thanked this post.

  6. #5

    It’s not always that they are stupid

    Charlie Harper is a dick, but not stupid
    I understand his general mission (getting laid) would likely be stupid to most
    He obviously as a character does not have a lot driving him
    He really is not stupid despite being a dick.
    He is just content in his lifestyle and does not challenge himself outside of what he has attained which is the ability to float

    If he were an ESFP in my opinion he would be a lot more innocently happy go lucky. You can see his Ti because he has a very dark grasp on reality through his subjective Ti, and Se. Hence that exploitative characteristic you see.
    He actually is showing you he has Ti
    Why because he is being so practical
    That doesn’t mean his character is high
    But he is pretty practical

    He is not ESFP because he is using Ti & Fe

    Not Fi & Te
    We never hear him use either of those
    He doesn’t give a fuck about a moral, cause, or data just in itself

    Now Reese
    Reese is also using Ti
    I agree Reese has a lot of air head moments
    He is not conventionally intelligent
    But he does show signs of intelligence
    Just not in very humane or distinct conventional ways
    Reese tends to be acting first always (Se) but then he is usually more set on his objective. That is Ti.

    Both of those examples are shallow uses
    But the reality is
    Se users are prone to being viewed as Shallow
    It does not mean Ti is not used
    Ti is internal so it often will not be externally spotted
    JennyJukes, wums, L P and 1 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    All human beings seek pleasure, and all human beings use logic to make decisions, regardless of whether you are aware of their reasoning or consider their decisions wise. Using logic just means using some kind of reasoning, not using some specific type of reasoning.
    Crowbo thanked this post.

  8. #7
    Unknown

    As already mentioned, thinking does not mean smart. Jungian Thinking (Judgement in general) is about labeling data. Idea creation, planning, decision making, etc, is an amalgamation of all the functions and then some (Higher functions warrant more attention from the individual). I.e, ESTP, the "dumb" type. Se as a dom function, is quite resource, it's main focus is impact, what can be done now with what is at hand. Secondary Ti (thinking) doesn't really say "this is a good idea" but just analyzes the "blueprints" of what Se brings to the table. This is a pretty neutral description of what I gave of Se, but as with all functions, can be used with idiocy or genius. Idiot Se user: Drunk Frat boy, Genius Se user: Macgyver. As for a dumb thinking type, I'd imagine someone who's head is so far up their ass (or mind) that they fail to take into account other info: That stuck-up professor that ignores the worthwhile solution just because it doesn't fit the model.
    Stevester and morgandollar thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Stupid actions might be justified from the Ti user's bad logic, and Ti can still be easily influenced by the user's biases. Just because a person values logic doesn't mean they are any good at using it.

  10. #9

    Ti is just a way to processs and understand things. Not all Ti/Te on the first function stack are smarter.

    I have an Entj coworker, she's really good at talking. She's very assertive and good at making plans generally speaking. But her actual work is crap.

    In the outside, people who doesn't know the work will say he's intelligent and smart, but once they check her output, it's not that flexible at all.

    Do not be deceived. Everyone wants to be a thinker only because they think being a thinker validates your intelligence. But people like ESFJ are intelligent too.

    I had an ESFJ coworker and he's really good at creating documents. I'm bad at it, and he always corrects me, and i learn something from him.

    We just have different kinds of intelligence and not only because one is dumb on some thing, he's not good at anything.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
    Reese is also using Ti
    I agree Reese has a lot of air head moments
    He is not conventionally intelligent
    But he does show signs of intelligence
    Just not in very humane or distinct conventional ways
    Reese tends to be acting first always (Se) but then he is usually more set on his objective. That is Ti.
    I understand being a thinker by no means equates to being smart-- I was just trying to see how it plays out in people who make decisions based on what will yield the most self-gratification and pleasure, which is usually how people like Charlie and Reese make their decisions. Charlie, I can see more clearly the practical side the more I think about how he pursues his actions, but for Reese...I still have trouble seeing him using Ti to accomplish anything. Is it that he uses whatever limited understanding he has (i.e., superficial use of Ti) to make things work the way he wants? How would his recklessness and impulsive actions look different if he was using Fi?


     
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