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CS Joseph typing grid

51K views 147 replies 35 participants last post by  goodvibe 
#1 ·
I've been listening to this youtuber talking about MBTI and cognitive functions the past few weeks on the way home,
and I got to the point where I found the typing grid, which seems to be specific to his name at first sight.
What do you think of him if you know him?

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To explain what each word means:

  • Informative: would rather say "We're out of milk", silently adds connotation, hoping they got the message across
  • Direct: would rather say "Go get the milk (please)", it's the way it is, loud and clear

  • Initiating: extraverted people, preference for starting conversations (Exxx)
  • Responding: introverted people, starting conversations costs energy most of the time (Ixxx)

  • Movement: impulsive, quick to decide, cannot stand still
  • Control: patient, stagnant, especially if it brings in more gains

  • Concrete: what is it like, current state, observation (xSxx)
  • Abstract: possibilities, concepts, ideas, implications, introspections (xNxx)

  • Affiliative: being interdependent, inclusion, adapt to group, norms, roles, permission > forgiveness (xSxJ & xNFx)
  • Pragmatic: how can I be independent, self-determination, how to advance faster, forgiveness > permission (xSxP & xNTx)

  • Systematic: systems, organization, metaphoric puzzles, methodology, process, professional (xSxJ & xNTx)
  • Interest: interests, motivation, passion, arbitrary about rules, reasons (xSxP & xNFx)


Edit: if you can't read the image, following link shows it better: [Click here]
 
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#2 ·
He is a very bad source and listening to him is not advised in my opinion but you are free to do what you want. It looks like you are most interested in the interaction styles, these are from Linda Berens book Understanding Yourself and Others: An Introduction to Interaction Styles.
 
#3 ·
Yup, I wanted to ask you guys what you think of him, just to have different perspectives because only my own will not suffice.
But what exactly is wrong with him then, is that book also bull? He mentioned her and also John Beebe (his big hero apparently).

I did notice on some videos that he's a creationist and claiming he's 100% sure, through reasoning, that it IS true (and said it would trigger Ti doms).
He wasn't wrong about that between brackets part, but didn't want to dismiss the somewhat unrelated stuff.

I did try the grid on myself before and it applies perfectly, asking my sister (who typed as INFP on the MBTI test) which interaction styles she has, has made her come out as my own type (Joseph claims it's 100% accurate!).
My brother gave combinations that don't match any on the grid. Would he be wrong?

But what sources are reliable then and is there any podcast on those? I love listening to them on the way home since it takes an hour anyway and I can't do much other stuff.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Well, here's what I think:
CSJ can't even type himself properly, he's not ENTP. Everything I've seen him say about the NP types betrays this, which becomes even more obvious when he talks about NFPs and how annoyed he is by behaviors which are actually shared by NTPs. His point of view of NPs is very J and he twists some of the behaviors to fit how he views himself, since with his system he can claim he was always an ENTP but in an "INTJ unconscious mode", as he was typing INJ in tests and believed he was one. Most of the explanations he gives seem to be anecdotes from his life filtered through his own perspective and then made fit in his model which stinks of confirmation bias..

Also super funny in a facepalm way: he says he likes to walk up to people he doesn't know on the street and say something to change the course of their lives, after he observes certain things about them for a bit, which couldn't be more J and almost as far away from ENTP as one can be lol. Oh and his face is J too.

The way he talks is super cringeworthy like he's on the brink of a nervous breakdown any moment now, but more importantly his model doesn't make much sense even theoretically, it's very prescriptive and robotic (4 sides of the mind having a different full type) which ironically betrays his J-ness too as he wants things in nice groupings with clear defined lines. Clearly that doesn't mean nothing of his model fits but a few right stuff doesn't make the whole thing correct.
 
#6 ·
Yes, I'm not convinced he's ENTP either.

I've seen a bunch of his videos and been at his Discord server. Not sure what to make of him. On one hand it's good that he encourages people to look into MBTI a bit more, and he's looked into the functions rather systematically. On the other hand he tried to oversimplify it by using the personality grid, and claiming he can type people in minutes. Not sure anyone can do that.
 
#10 ·
There is not even a common function between INTJ and ENTP.

Has he developed his own conceptual planning which might indicate an extraverted thinking in a good position... No. His gestures are random and dynamic. His look is also random. He has this little funny dandy style in his gesture with the goal of the seduction. Characteristic of extraverted feeling. Then comes the fact that he seems developed his own conceptual classification, which is a characteristic of introverted thinking. And he talks a lot, really a lot about this... Many demonstration ideas. A characteristic of extraverted intuition in a good position.

So why not ENTP...
 
#11 ·
Well now you're starting to sound like him ;)


Not but seriously, reading up on a book and thinking you now cracked the personality code and can assess people in 5 minutes with no counter-arguments seems very anti-Ne to me, which is why I think IxTJ makes much more sense.

And his playing up to the camera like I mentioned seems like forced behavior, almost as if he read up on ENTPs and got the idea that he needs to act a certain way to sell his persona. Seems about as genuine as an INFJ who wants to pass off an ESTP so he says ''bro'' at the end of every sentence....
 
#15 ·
So then we should also believe DaveSuperPowers?

You know, he's a self-proclaimed INTJ but a really deep and emotional one, so he invented the function jumping theory which in his case means he's a heavy Ni-Fi INTJ, different from your typical one and DEFINITELY NOT because he also wanted to include INFP/INFJ elements to his personality rounding up the triad of the most popular personality types all in a neat little package with a bow slapped on it, so he found a way to have his cake and eat it too.

I mean nobody would ever be that delusional enough for self-promotion and making themselves feel good that they would go out of their way to make stuff up, right?
 
#17 ·
Because no one should!

Hey, I'll be the first to admit I'm really pig-headed and stubborn when it comes to typing. I feel confident in it and hate to be challenged. But at the end of the day, I have to step back and remind myself how much of a subjective and inexact science this is.

That's why I get so annoyed with these internet gurus being so arrogant and like ''LOL, I totally understand this shit and the rest of you simpletons don't, unless you listen to ME....''

They're like people who pick up a guitar, turn out to be really good at it but now think their name should rightfully be there over Jimmy Hendrix.
 
#43 ·
A good rule about personality development is, if one is talking about the adult personality, the person must be over the age of 25 as the brain is finished developing by age 25.

Many personality development systems, though, allow for fluidity and tend to operate in "stages" with corresponding approximate ages. The consistent problem researchers are faced with, when looking at personality this way is that usually the stages and corresponding ages are only verifiable within the specific culture that the theorist came up with. For example, Erikson's psychosocial stages of development can only be replicated in Western cultures.

Jung offers ages in works outside of Psychological Types (Man and his Symbols, Archetypes & the Collective Unconscious, Aion, Symbols and Transformations, & Development of Personality) as to when one typically integrates different aspects of personality and it seems to me that he does take into account multiple cultures and biological psychology as well. I'm certain his books on Psychic Alchemy also offer ages and such, but I haven't read them yet.

Sorry I didn't read the first post and I'm not into CS Joseph in any way, but I saw people discussing age and its relevance to personality and I just wanted to throw in biological age. I apologise if this is off topic.
 
#60 ·
@Dissymetry

I am not claiming to be a human lie detector by any means, though I have some experience from childhood that I think upped my alert system to be hyper aware of clues in my environment to help me discern lying. But I think I'm on the Ni-Se perceptive axis, that when I detect someone is lying, it's usually someone close to me and it just feels like there is something "off" in the environment.

Maybe their posture/gestures/movements/voice tone is different. But I see what was once fluid as being interrupted by some sort of sensory irregularity (this is deeply impressionistic and non literal - could even be more Si). It is then that I refer to my subjective iNtuition: certain symbolic archetypes like you say - not a rat as I associate those with plague and don't get me started - but something like a book that is locked, like a diary where someone has written something that I'm not supposed to know. Perhaps you may say that this is Ne and the whole process is Ne + some internal judgement. But I don't believe I ever leave the perceptive state until I detect on some level (some sort of instinct) that I have the perceptive information I need and then can make a judgement about what that information means.

I only mention this because you were talking about reaction times. I can understand how Ni might seem more slow than Ne in the description you provide. But for me I only know someone is lying if I have the sensory information as well. So, perhaps Ne is faster than Ni, but I think Se+Ni (even if the Se is very minimal) can be just as fast. I cannot just subjectively intuit if someone is lying to me in a conscious state (sometimes this might come from a dream or meditation, though).

Surely even with Ne, there's got to be some sense impression, yes? It's a bit difficult for me to understand Ne, though. I mean even theoretically no matter how often I read the descriptions. In fact, I'd invite a discussion about the difference between Ne and Ni (unlike my insistence on putting on the breaks on any discussion of Fe lol). How do you know that there isn't any sense impression involving you using Ne to detect lying? Or do you not? Do you think that Ne is naturally more quick than Ni or do you think it's just more quick than Ni for you vs me?

Again, I'm not a human lie detector. If I must be, I use certain techniques I've been trained in which demand sensory information pretty much exclusively. I can only tell with those I spend a lot of time around physically. There is one person I spend a lot of time around online? He could probably lie to me about anything and I'd believe him. But then, I accept that this is the reality of the relationship as it stands now and something inside of me ages ago told me I could trust him, even in the face of those who said I shouldn't. If anything, that was a spontaneous instance of Ni, but not exactly regarding specific pieces of information he shared, but just a general idea that I could trust. It wasn't related to symbolism that I remember. It was just something that popped up that I knew without much evidence other than my ... body? something "clicked" and felt true about it. I can't explain.
 
#61 ·
CSJ is nuts. From the start of his YT "carreer" some other ENTP youtuber kept calling him ENTJ. I also agree he is not an ENTP and he is some kind of Te user as well.
As for topic Se dom being better than Ni dom at Ni .. It doesn't make sense to me. If so what is inferior function ? Just least preferred? Didn't Jung himself call inferior archaic/primitive? (If i recall well)
 
#62 ·
As for topic Se dom being better than Ni dom at Ni .. It doesn't make sense to me. If so what is inferior function ? Just least preferred? Didn't Jung himself call inferior archaic/primitive? (If i recall well)
Even if the inferior function of one person is archaic/primitive, this does not suggest that it is not more skilled and better than another persons dominant function. The most primitive and archaic aspects of one person can still be better and more refined than another persons strongest and most developed aspects.
 
#65 ·
Yup Eric, he called him ENTJ and got rebuttal from CSJ long before type police series was a thing. Though Eric is ENTP and he is awfully random and rambling a lot.
Some his Type police are quite decent and detailed some were total crap like with PEwdiepie he watched fro less thna 5 minutrs and concluded "too much NE for 4th slot, mistype".
CSJ does go off topic a lot, but also is direct and he is Fi-Te to me. I think ENFP makes sense for him. I don't think he is TJ. He is not really that organized, he have his videos divided into seasons, but he presents them in totally random order.
 
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#66 ·
I'm not sure C.S Joseph's bad typing comes from a bad intention, but as I've learned more about his typing proceeding, I think it didn't bring good results at all.

First, I think the interaction style chart he uses is highly inaccurate and he uses it a LOT. I've watched a few of his "How to type" videos, where he types celebrities, and some were clearly mistyped.
He took that method from other sources and he probably really believes it's accurate, but I just can't buy it personally. Too many inconsistencies. I'm very skeptical about the sources he uses as I've never seen that kind of method mentionned in Jung's theory.

If you pay attention to it, a lot of the inteaction styles mentionned could conflict with the types associated, because of the use of the cognitive functions. At least that's my opinion.

I didn't think his videos about type descriptions were bad (though I don't have enough knowledge about it to be sure yet), but I REALLY have a problem with all the interaction style thing.
 
#67 ·
Oh, that guy. I think he's a good person to listen to if you're looking to learn the more theoretical parts of MBTI. Especially the more Ti-oriented parts like when he relates MBTI types to the Beehe/Berens's 8 function model. Beehe/Beren's 8-function model is what he bases many of his grids on. When it comes to typing or talking about relationship compatibility, that seems to be his weak spot. He's good with Ti (theory and structure) but does poorly with Te (usage and execution of the logic and model).

So learn from him, but don't go to him as an authority on typing people and on relationship stuff. For that kind of stuff, you'd probably want to go with an actual MBTI consultant.
 
#71 ·
Nah, he says ESTPs are walking sex bombs/alpha males. Any ESTP whether they typed themselves correctly or not, would brag about that about themselves not about another type.

Another thing I forgot that REALLY bugs me about him, is when I've been a huge fan of a celebrity for over 20 years, he comes in, says he never heard of them, but with two quotes from an interview on Joe Rogan's podcast, he assigns them I type that contradicts mine.

Sooooo, all these years I've followed this celebrity, seeing them live, reading several bios, going through all their work, checking out documentaries about them and watching countless interviews + plus my knowledge on Jungian function theory.......nada, I was wrong all along because Mr. Joseph just disproved me in 4 minutes.

That's not insulting at all!
 
#72 ·
Sooooo, all these years I've followed this celebrity...[but]... I was wrong [about their MBTI type] all along because Mr. Joseph just disproved me in 4 minutes.

That's not insulting at all!
It was his intention all along; to not try and insult Mr. Stevester. Exclamation mark.

According to him. INTJ's are great dancers because demon SE is equivalent to taking meth and poppers when the time comes to dance.
 
#74 ·
He reminds me in no way whatsoever of any ENTP I know. I've met hyper, yappy ones who go on at his pace with the same energy level and even a similar irritation in their voice, as well as ones who are very good at being directive. There's still a feel of a palpable opposite in what he's doing. The similarity in the feel of the wiring is totally absent.
 
#76 ·
Oh, look another CJ Joseph thread :)

I think he has a con-man vibe. I won't even try to type him (maybe ENTP... he has that annoying trolling vibe some ENTPs have). He's quite annoying as a person, with the arrogant attitude that if you disagree with him, you're a moron. Of course, he has a matching smirk meant to be charming and edgy. I think he's trying to hide his BS in fast speaking and jargon to deceive the viewer. He uses ambiguous phrases to justify anything: "Oh, that type has blind Fe, that's why it does that"... Whoa there speedy! Explain what that means in precise terms, explain how it applies to this specific type, argue your case, don't throw statements and move on quickly.

Now, regarding his typings: I find them poorly thought out, only cherry picking details that support his views and ignoring the mountain of evidence contradicting his conclusion. Maybe he does know the theory, maybe he doesn't, but he's still wrong. Either the theory is wrong or he doesn't know the theory as well as he wants us to believe. But I see no evidence on his part, only claims. He was wrong about a lot of things he said about my type and how we function, so I reject him and his theory. And it makes sense to me that if he doesn't understand my type, chances are he doesn't understand the others.
 
#79 · (Edited)
He does not seem to value Se or Ni, that he is right about.

I think he is ESTJ. The observations in this thread on his Te use are good. This person is extremely directive and a Je heavy individual. Controlling information and the conversation, whilst being very resistant to impulse and clearly judging others for it. Extroversion is clear.

A great many self-typed ENTP's are in truth ESTJ's. This is no argument of course. Just an observation of mine.

Why not ENTJ then? He lacks the focus of the ENTJ. Too distractible and this shows in his eyes as well: his gaze is unfocused, unclear, doesn't "lock on" (which would be Ni-Se if this was present).

For contrast, the ENTJ "locking on" goes like this:
(though it is more obvious when looking at moving images)
 





Ben Shapiro and CS Joseph. Images taken from their Twitter account avatar. Plenty of similarities in their expression and style, thanks to sharing the Te lead.



--

As for his methods... bad. "Intuitives value privacy," he goes, ignoring that it is more logically sound that the valuing of privacy is linked to general introversion - not speaking of cognitive Introversion. Just one dead fish among the many on his shores. Plenty of unfounded blanket statements, and the arguments that he does offer for them are rooted in wrong typings, mainly his own (as it goes).
 
#83 ·
I think he is ESTJ.
That sounds plausible.

I've seen a particular ESTJ try to emulate a particular ENTP (his extremely popular colleague) recently. Had a similar over-the-top-ness to CSJ.

The ENTP colleague could be as large as the building, but it never seemed forced. When the ESTJ tried to be like him, there was an unstable sense to it. Not that the ESTJ was mentally unstable. It was that weird, intense abruptness, and it seemed out of place. Like CSJ does, most of the time.

Also, what's he trying to prove by walking with the wind blowing into the mike instead of giving the most basic of considerations to his sound quality? It's like he's trying to prove that he's lazy or above it somehow. It's not a simple oversight.
 
#86 ·
Don't know him, don't care to, probs no different than any other amateur hour nobody youtuber like that girl who spams her videos here

Everyone has an opinion, especially when money can be involved
 
#97 ·
Zactly! That's how I handle shit. And if the other party confronts me on it I'll just say ''Because someone had to do it?''. Call it informative or passive-aggressive, I don't care because I don't wait on other people to pull their weight when there is something in it for me. He also has ''informative'' twice which means half they types are informative, so way to narrow it down.

Anyhow, I watched his ''How to socially engineer ISFJs'' video last night and it was.....eerily accurate? Over-dramatic and exaggerated, but otherwise it's like he knew the ISFJs in my life just as well as I do. So he does know what he's talking about under the right circumstances. If it weren't for his 2 minutes celebrity typings based on two and half words and a cough, I could actually take him seriously.

But THEN he started lamenting over and over again about how he doesn't make money doing this? Funny, because I could swear during his ''How to type'' videos, people keep dropping 10, 20 and 50 bucks to have him type the celebrity of their choice. Or did he forget about that? Probably because he has Ne Hero. You need to stop doing that Mr. ENTP, seriously, stop doing that!!
 
#98 ·
@Stevester People also pay him to get themselves typed, and for "bonus" videos on Patreon. Him saying he doesn't gain any money from this is really hypocritical.

Really, I don't think relying on his interaction styles chart is productive in any way, it contradicts cognitive functions and actual Jungian theories in so many ways, using it would actually be the best way to get someone mistyped.
 
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