How Personality Determines Dominant or Submissive Energy, and its Relation to Sexes - Page 2

How Personality Determines Dominant or Submissive Energy, and its Relation to Sexes

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This is a discussion on How Personality Determines Dominant or Submissive Energy, and its Relation to Sexes within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by ephemereality Actually, this is what socionics writes about the Ne type when engaging in a relationship: Infantile ...

  1. #11
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    Actually, this is what socionics writes about the Ne type when engaging in a relationship:

    Infantile

    (Redirected from Infantile group)
    The Infantile types, identified as such by Viktor Gulenko, are the four types with (Ne) in their ego, two each in Alpha and Delta: ILE (ENTP), LII (INTP), IEE (ENFP), and EII (INFP).
    Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, the ego element (Ne), coupled with their expectations of (Si) style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in determining "infantile'" behavior.


    Typical characteristics of the Infantile romance style


    • interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
    • tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
    • try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
    • interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
    • appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
    • neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters


    This romance style is defined by focus on (Ne) which is static, irrational, and extroverted, with perceptions focused on possibilities and alternatives to the static present reality, which the individual perceives as intrinsically boring and stagnant. This means that an Infantile sees attraction between two individuals as a static state, also from the point of view of the other person, which he tries to "get moving" by actively thinking of variations of the present static state. This accounts for an Infantile's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as connected to that person's being exposed to the unexpected, imaginative, fun, even "weird" side of life, reality, and each other, a behavior that can be described as "childlike". This focus leads to a sort of helplessness regarding his own physical well being as perceived by (Si), so he welcomes help from others in that area.
    Perception of other romance styles

    This refers to perceptions of the partner in a romantic or prospective relationship.

    Aggressor: Infantiles tend to perceive Aggressors as a bit too "rough" and even slightly scary on occasion, or perhaps just as obnoxious
    Victim: Infantiles tend to perceive Victims as paranoid and confusing, giving mixed signals.
    Caregiver: Infantiles tend to perceive Caregivers as comforting and pleasant company, with a delightful sense of fun.
    Infantile: Infantiles tend to perceive other Infantiles as fun to spend time with but also as helpless and demanding in a way that they see as stressful.

    Compared to Se:

    Aggressor
    (Redirected from Aggressor group)
    The Aggressor types, identified as such by Viktor Gulenko, are the four types with (Se) in their ego, two each in Beta and Gamma: SLE (ESTP), LSI (ISTP), ESI (ISFP), and SEE (ESFP).
    Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, flirting, and the like, in intimate relationships, the irrational ego element (Se), coupled with their expectations of (Ni) style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in an Aggressor's behavior.


    Typical characteristics of the Aggressor romance style


    • no doubts about own interest in another person
    • not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
    • focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
    • romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
    • needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
    • this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
    • in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
    • little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously


    This romance style is defined by focus on (Se) which is static, irrational, and extroverted. This means that an Aggressor sees attraction to another person as a static state, which he feels it is up to him to change in the direction more in agreement to his preference. This accounts for an Aggressor's inclination to take the initiative in approaching the object of his interest and being "relentless" in his pursuit, as well as, even during an established relationship, continuing to try to "shake things up" or "get things moving". If his partner is not receptive to such behavior, this discourages the Aggressor, and results in his interest cooling off.

    Perception of other romance styles
    This refers to perceptions of the partner in a romantic or prospective relationship.
    Aggressor: Aggressors tend to perceive other Aggressors as exciting partners worthy of admiration and respect, but ultimately unsatisfactory due to a sense of never-ending competition for an ill-defined "upper hand", which becomes frustrating.
    Victim: Aggressors tend to perceive Victims simultaneously as pleasantly able to "keep up" regarding more "intensive" interactions, and also as not annoyingly prone to always wanting "to win". Aggressor women perceive Victim men as totally devoted yet reassuringly "strong".
    Caregiver: Aggressors tend to perceive Caregivers as somewhat boring and patronizing.
    Infantile: Agressors tend to perceive Infantiles as too goofy and unexciting, ultimately not taking them seriously as partners.
    I am assuming Romance styles relate to sexual fantasy, and because I am unfamiliar with Socionics, I cannot exactly comment on the information. The "Aggressor" is not specifically an "Se" type, because an INTJ man might be interested in bondage and discipline, or sadism and masochism (BDSM). Viktor Gulenko's ideas do relate to dominant-submissive spectrum in personality types, as posited in this thread.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    I am assuming Romance styles relate to sexual fantasy, and because I am unfamiliar with Socionics, I cannot exactly comment on the information. The "Aggressor" is not specifically an "Se" type, because an INTJ man might be interested in bondage and discipline, or sadism and masochism (BDSM). Viktor Gulenko's ideas do relate to dominant-submissive spectrum in personality types, as posited in this thread.
    The aggressor is specifically an Se type. All aggressors have Se in the ego, ergo they are all SPs in the MBTI. If you also read about the victim style, as it suggests, the victim tends to take on a submissive role in the relationship as in the victim lets the aggressor think they have the dominance and power over the victim. So of course an INTJ man, as you use an example here, might be interested in BDSM being the victim in the relationship.

  3. #13
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    The aggressor is specifically an Se type. All aggressors have Se in the ego, ergo they are all SPs in the MBTI. If you also read about the victim style, as it suggests, the victim tends to take on a submissive role in the relationship as in the victim lets the aggressor think they have the dominance and power over the victim. So of course an INTJ man, as you use an example here, might be interested in BDSM being the victim in the relationship.
    An INTJ man often plays the dominant role in BDSM, or the "aggressor" according to Socionic's Romance styles. In the case of INTJ serial killers, bondage or power over his victim causes the INTJ killer to become sexually aroused.

  4. #14
    ENFP - The Inspirers


    Depends on how developed a society is. Earlier societies gravitate to "might makes right" types of mentalities which happen to correspond to Ti with Fe to smooth over such a ghastly view. The more advanced a society becomes the more a later society would abandon notions of dominance and submission and perhaps adopt a more egalitarian view. Maybe, maybe not.

    I've been reading up on the subject of anthropology lately and it's amazing how similar the rise and fall of empires are. Fascinating.

  5. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    An INTJ man often plays the dominant role in BDSM, or the "aggressor" according to Socionic's Romance styles.
    You have zero sources to back this up.

    In the case of INTJ serial killers, bondage or power over his victim causes the INTJ killer to become sexually aroused.
    Again, nothing to back this up with. It's like you are making up stuff out of thin air. Doesn't work.

  6. #16
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    You have zero sources to back this up.

    Again, nothing to back this up with. It's like you are making up stuff out of thin air. Doesn't work.
    You are welcome to read about INTJ serial killers:
    https://personalitycafe.com/intj-foru...al-killer.html

  7. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    You are welcome to read about INTJ serial killers:
    https://personalitycafe.com/intj-foru...al-killer.html
    LOL. That's not a source, plus no one agrees with your typings for a reason. I won't really bother checking because I have no time to do that, but I bet none of those people are actual INTJs as in NiTe.

  8. #18

    Whether or not an INTJ man would enjoy being a dom is hardly the point, because aggressor/victim relations aren't actually the same as BDSM.

  9. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by spiderfrommars View Post
    Whether or not an INTJ man would enjoy being a dom is hardly the point, because aggressor/victim relations aren't actually the same as BDSM.
    I agree to an extent, though I wouldn't claim they are entirely separate either.

  10. #20

    I see the connection, but BDSM is a very fixed kind of power play. In contrast, the aggressor and victim are constantly fighting, and the most important quality for a victim to have is to be able to keep up. So the victim might appear, for a brief period, to have more power. That's the impression I got. In BDSM, the roles are very rigid.


     
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