How Personality Determines Dominant or Submissive Energy, and its Relation to Sexes - Page 3
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This is a discussion on How Personality Determines Dominant or Submissive Energy, and its Relation to Sexes within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by Sparky ENFP, INFP Pardon me, you are mistaken about this. Not all ENFPs and INFPs are the ...

  1. #21
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    ENFP, INFP
    Pardon me, you are mistaken about this.

    Not all ENFPs and INFPs are the same. I'd say majority aren't submissive. Our 'secret' is that we have S and for that matter Si low in hierarchy, INFPs seem especially 'submissive' because of our overall introverted tendency to dwell inside of our selves and our inner world of ideas and dreams. There is little visible 'external' energy.

    Se is there in the moment, therefore you can feel their physical presence. They are part of now body and mind. We have Si.
    Te is external and and functions in this regard similarly to Se - assertiveness (+need for structure).

    Both are usually low in our hierarchy.

    The word you're looking for is 'assertive' not dominating. Try mocking an E/INFPs identity and dreams and ESFJs will be humbled.

    The most traditional female types I know irl are actually ISFJ. Go figure that. They try to be 'modern' and are somewhat independent, but they're still usually stuck with tradition much.

    ENFPs notice social norms but doesn't give much of a damn. My ENFP friend is the most independent person I know of.
    Chances are INFP is utterly oblivious to the norms. (my case)

    If I looked for energy somewhere it would be astrology and birth chart. A lot of manliness in mine I assure you.
    mirrorghost, ninjahitsawall and MelBel thanked this post.

  2. #22
    Unknown Personality


    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    Most dominant or least submissive energy fields
    1. ENTP, INTP, ESFJ, ISFJ (Ne, Ti, Fe, Si) - Most dominant

    2. INTJ, ENTJ, ISFP, ESFP (Ni, Te, Fi, Se) - Second most dominant

    3. INFJ, ENFJ, ISTP, ESTP (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se) - Third most dominant

    4. ENFP, INFP, ESTJ, ISTJ (Ne, Fi, Te, Si) - Least dominant
    Least dominant or most submissive energy fields
    I honestly wonder how you came to this particular nugget of understanding. It's interesting to me, and I'm not really interested in the socionics interpretation of the Se-Si at this moment FYI. Is the Adam, Eve and Lilith parallel the only thing that you reference?

  3. #23
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    LOL. That's not a source, plus no one agrees with your typings for a reason. I won't really bother checking because I have no time to do that, but I bet none of those people are actual INTJs as in NiTe.
    Unless you know what people Viktor Gulenko typed as being Se and "aggressors", you cannot claim his system to be more accurate. It is better to do your own research, and not trust the typings of people you believe to be "experts" in personality.

  4. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    Unless you know what people Viktor Gulenko typed as being Se and "aggressors", you cannot claim his system to be more accurate. It is better to do your own research, and not trust the typings of people you believe to be "experts" in personality.
    I know what type of people Gulenko describes as aggressors, because socionics is very clear on what they define as egoic Se types.

  5. #25
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightchill View Post
    Pardon me, you are mistaken about this.

    Not all ENFPs and INFPs are the same. I'd say majority aren't submissive. Our 'secret' is that we have S and for that matter Si low in hierarchy, INFPs seem especially 'submissive' because of our overall introverted tendency to dwell inside of our selves and our inner world of ideas and dreams. There is little visible 'external' energy.

    Se is there in the moment, therefore you can feel their physical presence. They are part of now body and mind. We have Si.
    Te is external and and functions in this regard similarly to Se - assertiveness (+need for structure).

    Both are usually low in our hierarchy.

    The word you're looking for is 'assertive' not dominating. Try mocking an E/INFPs identity and dreams and ESFJs will be humbled.

    The most traditional female types I know irl are actually ISFJ. Go figure that. They try to be 'modern' and are somewhat independent, but they're still usually stuck with tradition much.

    ENFPs notice social norms but doesn't give much of a damn. My ENFP friend is the most independent person I know of.
    Chances are INFP is utterly oblivious to the norms. (my case)

    If I looked for energy somewhere it would be astrology and birth chart. A lot of manliness in mine I assure you.
    You might be a mistyped INTJ, so I cannot verify your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Nein View Post
    I honestly wonder how you came to this particular nugget of understanding. It's interesting to me, and I'm not really interested in the socionics interpretation of the Se-Si at this moment FYI. Is the Adam, Eve and Lilith parallel the only thing that you reference?
    Hi, the Adam-Lilith story is the first that comes to mind when discussing dominant-submissive energy and sexual fantasy. The information comes from personal experience observing people, and my feelings about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    I know what type of people Gulenko describes as aggressors, because socionics is very clear on what they define as egoic Se types.
    You need to know the names of the people Gulenko typed as Se or aggressors, because the people he typed could well be misidentified INTJ. The reason the people listed in "INTJ Serial Killers" thread are identified as INTJ, is because they share more commonalities with each other, than members of other personality types.

  6. #26

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    You need to know the names of the people Gulenko typed as Se or aggressors, because the people he typed could well be misidentified INTJ.
    Why do I need to know of any specific names? But sure, I'll give you examples:

    GRArkada, ISTP


    Grimmjow, ESTP:


    Nero, ISFP:


    Dante, ESTP:


    Mugen, ESFP:



    The reason the people listed in "INTJ Serial Killers" thread are identified as INTJ, is because they share more commonalities with each other, than members of other personality types.
    You mean, you identified based on the commonalities you see but those commonalities do not necessarily match the system meant to describe them.

  7. #27
    INTP - The Thinkers

    This whole discussion is a hoot. For the sake of the whole sexual energy thing... dominant and submissive is the weirdest thing to me. It really does seem like an Se thing. I have only discussed this topic in depth with NFPs and NFJs, as far as I can tell, and in the case of me and NFP, the answer is a big fat N/A. Couldn't be bothered and if someone was thinking in that regard I suspect Ne types would, if my own sentiment and the discussions I have had are any indication, it sounds obnoxious as hell and kinda made up.

    I am not big into Socionics, and I chafe at the implied Caregiver / Infantile dichotomy and the implications of that... though I don't reject it either. By that system my wife (NeFi) and I are both Infantile. Lots of joking around, trying to see things in a new light, lots of focus on reciprocation, nothing too serious, 'power' isn't even a thing.

    If someone got on about 'keeping up' or superiority or any of that, either hearing of it in another relationship or being with a girl who thought like that, I would be completely unable to take them seriously. I very much would expect the same from an NFP.

    Also, the idea of sexual psychology being tied to Se and Ne does seem to make a lot of sense, at least in the context of that particular dichotomy.

    All that being said, I SUSPECT there is a natural, default dominate/submissive role tendency male to female. Exceptions, doubtlessly, abound. The thing is, it just sort of ends up that way in my 'Ne' relationship. The instant one of us thought to take it seriously, we'd both just laugh and then do the other thing for a laugh or just to deconstruct it. Eventually, though, in terms of routine, it would drift back to a more traditional male / female role until we decided to deconstruct it again, in another way.
    Kabosu and d e c a d e n t thanked this post.

  8. #28

    Eh, I'll admit that the thought of how "sexual energy" manifests in the different types is interesting to me, though I think it likely depends on the individual. And then there's the fact that people can have different ideas of what dominance and submission means, as seen in this very thread as well. When I think of ENTP, for example, dominant isn't the first word that comes to my mind, but that depends on what you think of as dominance.

  9. #29
    INFJ - The Protectors

    A better way to examine the points in the opening post, is to respond with your personality type, and how you fantasize about sex, like whether you more often play the dominant or submissive role. The downside is that if you are mistyped and not realize it, then your response might not be truthful, as in the case when an INTJ is mistyped as INFP or ISTP.


    Quote Originally Posted by ephemereality View Post
    You mean, you identified based on the commonalities you see but those commonalities do not necessarily match the system meant to describe them.
    The system is made and modified according to the facts, and the truth does not conform to the systems.

  10. #30
    Unknown Personality


    I think that the assumption based on that premise of how energy is formed in the mind of a person of various egotic function orientations is a tad wrong actually. I am using the definition of the BDSM terminology of Domination and Submission. (What most think of D/S is actually merely Brutality (A state of a person's needs being physically trampled over the other) and Barbarism (A group sponsored parallel that is much harder to detect) The dominant "Positive" energy, the hammer in the communist's emblem is the source of creation, action and force in a deliberate attempt to extract the world's "resources" into the person's being by obeying the will of the world. It is action of energy exchange by making oneself a physical presence of the world instead of something that is against it. The world is therefor not merely a concept to them, but something that is actually felt. Not only is it merely "felt" to them but it is also something that they control entirely. The world and themselves are in synch, but that is the delusion felt as the "world" has no inate purpose, it's just that their conception of the world has the affects of this happening, in which meaning is supplanted into the world, in the hopes of impregnating it, in one's image.

    Submission on the other hand is the opposite of that. It is the "negative" energy, the sickle to the hammer's left and right side. A state of perpetual self and other devouring by integrating the will of the world and debasing it's very essence for consumption. A narcissistic ouroboros projecting onto objects, allowing for the person's maw to shrink and destroy the world. In spite of this, the person has no "will" of their own, it is merely their reaction (not being) that allows for their character to happen. In this sense, they merely exist for the world and the world makes it's mark onto the state of person's with whatever sadistic impulses the world may muster. The submission comes from the fact that the person finds joy in this, it is a game in which two "people" constantly hunt each other for all eternity, it is never about supplanting the will of the world into them, insomuch as the world is in a constant state of movement and the person's experiences shape the world instead of their will.

    Now that the definitions has been clarified, I shall tell you the basic premise of what I think is the fact of what is the true submissive and dominant energies of the psychic orientations of the Jungian Cognitive functions.

    -Most Dominant Group (using socionics terms as a short hand)-

    Delta
    Gamma/Alpha
    Beta

    -least Dominant Group (using socionics terms as a short hand)
    Last edited by Sixty Nein; 01-21-2014 at 09:15 PM.


     
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