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Ti v Fi - A Closer Look

137K views 202 replies 131 participants last post by  HypernovaGirl 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello again, everyone :happy: Good to be back.

I'm unsatisfied by the descriptions of Ti and Fi that I see around in books or online. While generally the end result is somewhat correct, I know that each function goes deeper than it's external manifestation. I also want to assert that they are much more similar than they appear.

I'm not Ti, so I'm basing this on my interpretations of other people's introspection. Please correct me or elaborate. The more personal observations the better. Also, please correct me on any N bias I may be adding.

Ti is an abstract deductive reasoning process. Would it be correct to say that Ti focuses on stripping away at the superficial side of any given object/situation to find the inner and pure objective information? Ti then goes to define and ultimately fit the piece of information into an internal model of all objective information collected thus far. All done unconsciously for the most part until a particularly complex bit of information cannot fit in which case both the information and the internal construct are called into question until all inconsistencies are worked out and the puzzle is solved. The larger problems require varying amounts of time, energy, and logical processing until everything fits once again. This is how Ti can pinpoint inconsistencies from miles away, the information they received is not the proper shape or not even from the same puzzle as they understand the world to function.

Fi would then be an abstract integration process taking into account pure subjective information or 'feelings'. The internal world model is constructed less of logical systems as Ti. Fi focuses less on defining new information and more on simply understanding and then integrating it to the basic framework already in place. Like conducting and building a song one instrumental piece at a time. Fi is focused on how things work together, and dissonance is readily apparent. A distinction from the inconsistency targeting of Ti where things must fit, Fi can work with small inconsistencies as long as the bigger picture can still function as whole.

Objectivity and subjectivity are a large separation in the functions. Fi types are very close to their inner feelings, understand them, yet the objectivity of language prevents them from expressing this portion of their being. Fi then needs to take subjective viewpoints into account in their internal world model because that is the part world they best understand and they see it to affect their worldview greatly. This is not to say they ignore objectivity, yet a danger zone for Fi (DomFi especially) is to ignore objective truth that doesn't harmonize with their subjective truth resulting in either an overly-emotional or a self-centered person (or both, depending on your perspective). Ti, on the other hand, is either does not understand it like Fi can (much like Fi has a harder time with deductive reasoning of objective qualities), or deems it irrelevant. An unbalanced Ti would be entirely disconnected with the human element leaving their world model incomplete and too rigid for that sort of information. (ironically becoming too subjective in their objectivity)

I view the two functions as then starting from the same point when given piece of information and going opposite directions (not necessarily to opposing conclusions, however). Fi preferring to work outward only going inward when harmony is not achieved, and Ti working inward venturing outward when the pieces do not fit. Thus, they are almost mirror processes, neither being more or less rational than the other; only as rational as the information going in.



It's a work in progress and I may not have organized my thoughts properly. Please tell me for personal view on how you use/experience these functions.
 
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#89 ·
Is it so nuts to be overanalytical and obsessed even with the tiniest detail of my belief system and being a Fi dominant user? I want to find an harmonious truth. Does that sound Ti-Fe or Fi-Te? I have always perceived life complex and with a lot of factors playing in the game. Everything is relative and subjective. I want to take all of those factors and look for patterns to understand broadly me and others and life dynamics. I want to be true to myself and I have a strong combination of self-awareness and self-analysis. Does that sounds more Ti or more Fi? I recognize I put a lot of effort in making things fit in my system. Adding and rearranging things inside my head. My head is like a box. I want to keep everything inside of that box and when something feels outside of it, I simply (not always simple) resize the box. Of course with every new experience, there's something outside of the box and it drives me crazy for a moment (sometimes a very long one). I feel the need to keep it all inside. I am misunderstanding it? Does that means Ti? Or Fi? Definately I am Ji dominant, I believe. Ask questions if you want too...

Edit: Reading further, I think Ti seriously
 
#95 ·
Which one am I using in your opinion? I make decisions according to what makes logical sense. I try to analyse my emotions but generally fail and end up doing something, until I am alone again. I sometimes analyse impersonal things, but not as much. I can't express emotions without being extremely uncomfortable, infant I have never shared them. I don't think I am tough minded and take things personal but that could be low confidence.

So which do you think I'm using ?
 
#96 ·
These two functions aren't even close. Fi personalizes everything, Ti depersonalizes everything. One is conceptual, the other is evaluative (e.g. good/bad, etc. basically). One is heavily oriented to technical breakdowns of definitions and understanding, the other opposes this 100% and is more about self-conviction with bottom-up reasoning. These are the two functions that can't even begin to understand each others' reasoning, since they are both subjective (so, you never really quite know where the other is coming from in their reasoning), let alone, two totally different types of logical reasoning (analytical and synthetic/wholistic).
 
#97 ·
Fascinating read. I like you how explain how Ti can see inconsistencies from miles away. I agree that Fi can detect dissonance as well. I think of internal consistency (in Ti) to be logical consistency, and in Fi, I call it consonance. Really cool that you chose to say dissonance.

Interesting description of each function-type in their unbalanced phases, as well. I love the ironic point you make about Ti-doms potentially refraining from objectivity.
 
#98 ·
I just made a thread in the INFP forum, and wrote something and realized I was describing Fi. I think.

[Fi] also shows through when I am talking. It's frustrating because I may know how I exactly feel about a subject and the spate of facts that relate to it, but I can never thread it into coherent sentences to logically express it to other people, and I feel as if that hinders me from deeper conversations that could take place. My thought processes become even fuzzier when I'm trying to present a counterargument to someone. I am very long-winded as a result when I try to get a point across.
yes? no?
 
#100 ·
I just made a thread in the INFP forum, and wrote something and realized I was describing Fi. I think.



yes? no?
Almost sounds like Ne to me although I'd wager it to be N in general. I think that feeling of having a thought you think is interesting or relevant but being unable to express it properly is common to all intuitive types but dominant types more so than auxiliary.
 
#103 ·
Yea. Fi and Ti might as well work with the same media (art term), so-to-speak (they rationalize from the person's ego identity concerns almost directly), but their operations are entirely different. Ti does a breakdown via what aspects of a person's ideas concern them, while Fi expands to the realm of personal significance that ideas might hold to the person and the relevance of such ideas to actual conclusions based on (but not necessarily in direct connection to) the feelings a person might have about them from various ideals they hold - Fi works with ideals about reality while Ti works with ideals that bypass reality and only concern pure conceptuality (even though this conceptuality might relate to experiences - it's more focused on the defineable forms drawn from reality, not the state of one's personal relationship to it like Fi). It's the type of thinking that borders on mystical thinking - I think we all know various Ti types of all sorts IRL (usually dominant or inferior though - the inferior Ti types might actually be even more entertaining than the dominant ones in that their thoughts are detached enough from experience that they might look like they're coming out of the depths of the random with their thinking) who seem to be coming from a different universe in how they conceptualize their experiences, so-to-speak - these types are probably Hilarious if senile). The Fi types are actually quite normal looking in their reasoning - sometimes almost so normal, that one might doubt that their dominant function is even a cognitive function and mistake it for the person just improvising a response based off of not having enough conceptual information with them on hand. This function is a lot harder to notice and quantify than Ti, I think (this shows online where everyone thinks "being human" is Fi, lol). It's usually noticeable if it has a sort of archetypal character to it that you have to kind of infer from the person's emphasis on the significance of their own points (this is what's frustrating about subjective feeling to begin with - it's kind of hard to draw the line between whether or not a person is just consulting with themselves for some kind of felt inner guidance and where it's actually trying to stand out as a form of reasoning - the non-dominant Fi types tend to display it as a more clear form of reasoning, due to having better adapted (willfully) thinking, while the Fi doms, especially if it's paired with intuition rather than matter-of-fact sensation, might sound like they're spouting off their stream-of-consciousness associations and feelings that bare absolutely no clear relevance to the material at hand, even though they might be making a statement of rather universal import anyhow).
 
#105 ·
I recognize Fi in myself a lot now. I used to doubt I was Fi because i am facially expressive (How superficial of me!)
Whenever I'm learning a new system, I always attach it to one I already know in rich detail.
.... I am describing Fi, right?
 
#106 ·
This thread is very interesting, and draws me in more to my INxP speculation. A couple things:

My understanding of Ji, from what I gather so far:
Ti- system that conceptually breaks down data, with subjective logic being the final say. External data going inward has to make sense to the user for it to fall into place into this framework.
Fi- system that draws in data on a more personal level, and has to fall in line with personal values. Value; could be a certain belief, or something that is "worth" a user's time. External data going inward has to strike a chord (at any level) for it to fall into this system.
(keep in mind I'm not entirely sure, especially about Fi)

Also: based on what I've read, I'm increasingly sure I'm Ji-dom, but am having trouble distinguishing which one. The more I read about Fi the more I relate to it, but still, something doesn't seem right about it. I need passion to achieve goals; but the way my process of taking in information and understanding it seems pretty similar to Ti (although not as complex as some make it out to be, from what I read people almost tend to describe Ti-doms as "superbrains" which isn't always the case); I definitely feel like the "framework" idea sounds more like my brain, it's just not that organized (or at least it seems); things have to make sense and "click" for me in order to attach them to my system of beliefs/ideas/understanding/etc. (I don't really know, but from what I gather, Ti can be classified as "a set of beliefs", since it's personal logic, just more detached. Beliefs don't immediately correlate to Fi, that sounds slightly ridiculous to me).

Plus, the resturant example of Ti vs Fi provided by @LeaT was great! I leaned more on the Ti side of that example. Concrete information and insight like that is always helpful when I am learning something new.

So, I don't really know. Plus I would put Inferior Fe or Se as more likely than Te, although I don't know much about inferior Te.
 
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#108 ·
I think those are pretty great descriptions of Ti and Fi. Even though I think they are different, but very similar in a sense of how it works. It shares the introversion. I think you could say the same when comparing Fe and Te. I agree that Fi is the most personal because its about identity and knowing the self. (From my perspective.) Knowing what is right for me despite what society says. I think Ti is very much similar of how it thinks despite the popular opinion of Te. It seeks out and exposes Te flaws. I am still understanding these functions so some feedback is appreciated. :D
 
#109 ·
Fi and Ti look similar from the outside, when you don't know someone well. Ti is not automatic though, like I've heard described above, which might be partly confusing Ne with Ti. Thinking is not automatic, even if sometimes it is very fast. Thinking requires language (even if only in your own head) or some form of symbolism, or else it is not thinking in terms of a thinking function.

The biggest difference between Te and Ti is that while Ti can be used to work with externally validated fact, It does not need external validation or sources outside the self to exist. This is why it might be confused with Fi from outside observation. The classic example of Te vs Ti is the story of the emperors new clothes. The internal validation is the observers own eyeballs that tell him the emperor is naked. This is an experiential judgement, symbolically if not linguistically, Ti sees body parts exposed, this is inconsistent with what is being proclaimed about clothing and the expressed observation of the crowd. Maybe descriptions people give of these clothes, tell different stories? Ti determines he should believe his eyes and his logic.

Te could come to the same conclusion, but Te prefers pragmatism and reliable sources, with logic more like a support tool. Ti prefers experience and logical consistency as foremost for credibility. Building models is definitely something Ti does because it values that experiential observation + logic. How far this model gets applied to parallel or similar situations though, has a perception factor.

Fi is a reaction, based on internalized standards, that which has intrinsic value to the subject..
 
#110 ·
I often wish I were able to "understand" feelings the way you describe. I can think on them and contemplate them all I like, even take them into account and make use of them maybe. But they will never be very solid or logical in my inner world. Good job describing Ti though. I enjoyed this post.
 
#111 ·
I read in a Jung translation that Fi and Ti work directly with the ego, so frankly, I think these types, of all of the types, are essentially people who are the most in-touch with their ego motives - as a consequence, their ability to rationally adapt to objective conditions of the outside world (inferior Je) suffers. They're pretty much all of the negative qualities that get associated with Je doms in MBTI descriptions. On the other hand, Je doms (Te and Fe) are some of the most adaptive people around to the outside world and the world of rational objective aims, but as a consequence, their personal morality suffers (they are out of touch with their ego motives, so they kind of sell their souls in a lot of ways - they might view themselves as threatening, dangerous, not know what matters to them, etc.). I'd say the U.S. has an overall Je mentality for sure (the kind of extraversion that distrusts the judgements of the self). I personally think J dominants of all stripes can benefit by developing their perception functions more - otherwise, they're always kind of putting themselves out on the line.
 
#112 ·
Inferior Je is kind of the quintessential control freak - either on a reasoned basis (inferior Te) or a feelings-oriented basis (inferior Fe). This happens to them largely from the unconscious, so with inferior Te, you get the unbending authoritarian who wants no other way but their own, while with inferior Fe, you get the person who sort of has borderline neurotic emotional issues (nothing truly serious though) that they unconsciously control everyone with.
 
#113 · (Edited)
Inferior Je is kind of the quintessential control freak - either on a reasoned basis (inferior Te) or a feelings-oriented basis (inferior Fe). This happens to them largely from the unconscious, so with inferior Te, you get the unbending authoritarian who wants no other way but their own, while with inferior Fe, you get the person who sort of has borderline neurotic emotional issues (nothing truly serious though) that they unconsciously control everyone with.


As far as I'm concerned my Fi-Te is my superego at work (ethics-morals, guilt trips, self criticism). I'm also a 6 which is a superego type.

The superego is the ethical component of the personality and provides the moral standards by which the ego operates. The superego’s criticisms, prohibitions, and inhibitions form a person’s conscience, and its positive aspirations and ideals represent one’s idealized self-image, or “ego ideal.”

..etc. I don't recall having a strong ego, if nothing else most ENTJs I have observed have a very strong ego. Considering that msot IFPs I have met suffer from self image problems, confidence issues, inability to set goals and meet them, low self esteem and so on would argue against being in touch with ego motives. At least I wasn't for avery long time.

o.o I understood Fi as the function that gives value to processed information, aka personal ethics/morals/values - right/wrong - good/bad as opposed to Fe, which would adapt these to the needs of the external enviroment. Fe imo is about connecting with others and this requiers compromise. One looks internally the other looks towards it's surroundings, similarly how Fi doms look to their surroundings when it comes to logic. (common sense, what does science say, statistics, is it applicable etc..)

Its true that under a lot of pressure the self criticism leaks out as other criticism, nitpicking, paranoia (in case of Ni-Te). Its like the self is under assault both internally (self criticism) and if the external assault continues it eventually goes into survival mode: tyranical authoritarian outburst. <== does not last that long.

Fi doms are moralists :p yeah.

For anyone with the Fi-Te axis it becomes increasingly important to gather information before jumping to conclusions and to manage the influx of this aka Se-Ni or Ne-Si needs to be used properly, conciously. Are my value judgments based on solid info, are my negative inner thoughts realistic? :p its like a ballancing act.
 
#114 ·
Um, a well-adapted Je type (dominant) should not be a control freak when it comes to matters of worldview and objectivity. On the other hand, inferior Je probably is going to be the person who cannot handle objective worldviews that offend their egos (not like they're always like this, but it's probably a shadow characteristic that comes up for them a lot). I hear it enough with both Ji doms - the Fi doms often cannot accept various truths, while the Ti doms cannot accept "new" "feelings" that do not fall into a codification of sorts. Je doms' issues come from their inferior Ji side, not their Je side (so, where the Te dom is a very objective, clear-minded, and fair reasoner of the intellectual from the conscious standpoint, they have tyrannical subjective opinions and viewpoints that might undermine this from the unconscious side).
 
#115 ·
Je inferiors are maladaptive to external structures, but it doesn't come out like the stereotypical Je-dom because the whole Je-dom thing is about how the world can be manipulated while to Ji firsts that's so much less relevant than understanding. At worst it comes out as rejection, not control. Refusal to be controlled
 
#116 ·
I don't have a good idea of what Ti is (I've read descriptions and everything, but I rarely use it). Is it like personal, very subjective logic?

On the other hand, I use Fi a lot - it's like a guiding light in every situation and life in general. I usually don't know how I feel about things until something like this happens: I'll hear a sound, like a car playing really loud bass while driving far away, combined with seeing and feeling the beautiful, picturesque, cool night around me - and I get this really powerful surge of emotion. It's so strong that it doesn't even show up on my face, but I feel it running through my body and mind. It makes me miss those things my friends and I would do together, and it's the first thing I want to do when I get home from vacation. I think that's kind of Se biased, though.

Regardless, any time I make desicions on where I want to go, what I want to do, or in what direction I want to take my life, I get a similar surge of emotion, and sometimes many times a day.


Fi, for me, also can manifest in other ways, like when I'm painting. I don't know exactly how this painting is going to turn out, but I trust that what I feel should come next is the best thing to paint. Or if I'm buying a gift for someone, something in the store feels uniquely right for the person.


If someone could give a similar account of Ti (an example of how it works for you), that'd be great :)
 
#117 ·
When you talk about a judging function, it's ineivtably gonna be deeply tinged with pieces of the perceiving function. So I can't talk for ISTPs, only for myself as an INTP. This thread is really good...

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/155393-ti-vs-ni.html

posts
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/155393-ti-vs-ni.html#post3960435
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/155393-ti-vs-ni-2.html#post3960545
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/155393-ti-vs-ni-3.html#post3963630

These two posts of mine are linked in that last post from a past thread...
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/151459-ti-vs-ni-8.html#post3865691
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/151459-ti-vs-ni-8.html#post3880570

And as a conclusion...
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/155393-ti-vs-ni-3.html#post3963856

"That's pretty much how I see it...It might get complex, convoluted, and clouded, but in the end, it's about understanding in my own way or finding some way to look at things which gives me endless insight, because insight is what I want and it makes me feel more at home. I think sometimes that goal of understanding might be almost automatic and hard to pin down, but it is a strong drive"
 
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#118 ·
I've often wondered if I am INFP or INTP, and I'd offer this account- concerning my Fi and Ne (or perhaps Ti and Ne) with music.

I play guitar and keyboard, well enough to understand intermediate jazz theory and well enough to write some of my own compositions. I also play community bluegrass, and I'm in a jazz influenced rock group. I can read music, but I am also an ear player (at least to a certain degree). I stay away from sheet composed, preferring to read lead melodies and chords. I don't know if any of this would count as an indicator, so I'd reserve judgment up until this point... the good stuff is coming.

When I played piano in a jazz band in high school, I always found it difficult to watch our conductor. I could keep in time, but generally instead of focusing on his baton (or hands? I can't remember) I would focus on his facial expression. Keeping in time was not typically an issue unless I was BSing the song!

When I go online searching for chords, if I'm ever faced with an incorrect chord, I seem to make note of it almost immediately. I don't know if this is Fi or Ti, or if perhaps it has no relationship to either. Best example is a song that shows an Am or Am7 chord... where it is actually an F#m7-5 chord. ie: this (also I'm no good with tabs, I read chords and memorize where they are... so sorry for the crude description)...

012
E-o
Ax
D-o
G-o
Bo
e-o

The last account is how I play when I play in groups. My focus when playing guitar and keyboard is usually on the other band members. Many times I'm playing without music, just jamming, doing improvisation, whatever. I don't need the sheet music in front of me, but I do constantly look to everyone to figure out what to do (perhaps this is eN?) and when to do it. Is this skill, or is this my Fi interacting with my bandmates?

Just curious, I suppose if you believe its my Fi (and not something entirely different), then it strongly confirms my being INFP ;-]
 
#119 ·
I look at Fi and Ti as two kinds of possible souls. One soft and one hard.

For me at as ENTP, at a personal level....

Ti loves ethics and rules. Worries about good vs bad. Will this actually work and get things done the best way. and finds universal rules for how things work. Finding really cool algorithms for doing stuff in any situation. I personally use the bubble sort algorithm to clean my house, where my own personal mental energy and sanity is the prioritized resource.

I can be so attached to my inner "values" (little inner gems polished to beauty) that I would rather die than violate them. or be very shy to even share them, in fear that some near variable might violate them, that I didn't even consider (maybe more a NTP thing).

Or that I am nearly always honest, and as I got older, I realized "lying" was an important part of living in society and with people, has a social value. My internal ethics get very mixed up with this. So I often prefer the consequences of honesty, then the benfits of "lying". (note: I am not putting in personal negative judgment on lying as evil or anything like that)

A funny new rule I have as an ENTP, I try to translate all my thoughts into personal and purpose driven statements when communicating with others. The sort of impersonal-ness (to find universal rules) i seek internally, doesn't translate well for others. It is just messy inner word salad, when it comes out.

So for like Fi communication.

I try explain things in terms of intention and purpose, and how what I think will help people to better achieve what they actually want. I find Fi always wants to infer some personal intention to everything I say (used to make me insane, because they always got it wrong). So I make sure that what I say has a personal intention, where as when i was young, I would more just share my internal mental process and notes on a subject, in a impersonal way.

Fi seems concerned with internal morality: good and evil. Seeks a sort of inner purity and idealism. And when the world doesn't match their utopian idealized perfect values, get cynical. I feel at times I am not "human" in their system, or that like Ti is just some sort of confused Fi, and I am really all soft and cuddly like them (or something).

I get very confused how they hold onto hurt so long and take abuse so personal. Like they get hit, because they are bad or something. They seem like a fishbowl, and when bad stuff gets in the water, they have a hard time cleaning it out. Maybe Ti is more like a rock, the blood washes off, but the chips and cracks remain.
 
#120 ·
Fi seems concerned with internal morality: good and evil. Seeks a sort of inner purity and idealism. And when the world doesn't match their utopian idealized perfect values, get cynical. I feel at times I am not "human" in their system, or that like Ti is just some sort of confused Fi, and I am really all soft and cuddly like them (or something).

I get very confused how they hold onto hurt so long and take abuse so personal. Like they get hit, because they are bad or something. They seem like a fishbowl, and when bad stuff gets in the water, they have a hard time cleaning it out. Maybe Ti is more like a rock, the blood washes off, but the chips and cracks remain.
Fi works largely unconsciously, from what I've noticed. I'm pretty sure this is where the saying "logic can't be put on feelings" was founded... can't really measure the unconscious.

Anyway, Fi is very personal. It likes to attach itself to anything and everything. That includes objective criticism. So by criticizing me, you're not just pointing something out - you're shaking my web of foundations, values, and to that extent, everything I stand for. This one criticism is attached to this thing, which means that you insulted this other thing of mine, and so on. Ever hear of the butterfly effect? It's a bit like that.
Lack of Ti usually means we aren't able to coherently explain why something made us so upset.


You Ti guys are lucky in that criticism doesn't really bother you. You're able to solidify your web so that it doesn't shake as much - just the area of impact is damaged, and that small area doesn't take as long to heal.

I think I barely scratched the surface, but I'm kinda tired and need to go to bed :/
 
#122 ·
...
Hello again, everyone :happy: Good to be back.

I'm unsatisfied by the descriptions of Ti and Fi that I see around in books or online. While generally the end result is somewhat correct, I know that each function goes deeper than it's external manifestation. I also want to assert that they are much more similar than they appear.

I'm not Ti, so I'm basing this on my interpretations of other people's introspection. Please correct me or elaborate. The more personal observations the better. Also, please correct me on any N bias I may be adding.

Ti is an abstract deductive reasoning process. Would it be correct to say that Ti focuses on stripping away at the superficial side of any given object/situation to find the inner and pure objective information need to have a better sense of what you mean by "superficial" to be able to proffer an opinion? Ti then goes to define and ultimately fit the piece of information into an internal model of all objective information collected thus far. All done unconsciously for the most part until a particularly complex bit of information cannot fit in which case both the information and the internal construct are called into question until all inconsistencies are worked out and the puzzle is solved sounds roughly right to me. . The larger problems require varying amounts of time, energy, and logical processing until everything fits once again. This is how Ti can pinpoint inconsistencies from miles away, the information they received is not the proper shape or not even from the same puzzle as they understand the world to function. yes yes it's like there's a feeling of something not "fitting" right. or sometimes i'd say the information is broken into a bunch of pieces and the pieces are built together and if the building isn;t working then something is wrong or doesn't make sense (internal consistency... ie its not always a pre-existing model... other than out model of how stuff is supposed to fit together...). and then you have to try to rearrange everything until it fits properly together.

Fi would then be an abstract integration process taking into account pure subjective information or 'feelings'. The internal world model is constructed less of logical systems as Ti. Fi focuses less on defining new information and more on simply understanding and then integrating it to the basic framework already in place. Like conducting and building a song one instrumental piece at a time. Fi is focused on how things work together, and dissonance is readily apparent. A distinction from the inconsistency targeting of Ti where things must fit, Fi can work with small inconsistencies as long as the bigger picture can still function as whole.i mean we can work with small inconsistencies but overall the inconsistency is a sign our model isn't perfect.
it's like physics. the models we have are very useful, and yet we know that there is something wrong or missing in the model or our understanding of it, because the pieces do not fit perfectly. so it's not like we throw out what we have but we continuously look for ways to improve the model to make it fit better. whether that be by discovering something entirely new or redefining in a totally different way what we had previously.
yet also realizing that we may simply not have sufficient tools to accomplish a perfect model in our own lifetime.


Objectivity and subjectivity are a large separation in the functions. Fi types are very close to their inner feelings, understand them, yet the objectivity of language prevents them from expressing this portion of their being. Fi then needs to take subjective viewpoints into account in their internal world model because that is the part world they best understand and they see it to affect their worldview greatly. This is not to say they ignore objectivity, yet a danger zone for Fi (DomFi especially) is to ignore objective truth that doesn't harmonize with their subjective truth resulting in either an overly-emotional or a self-centered person (or both, depending on your perspective). Ti, on the other hand, is either does not understand it like Fi can (much like Fi has a harder time with deductive reasoning of objective qualities), or deems it irrelevant. An unbalanced Ti would be entirely disconnected with the human element leaving their world model incomplete and too rigid for that sort of information. (ironically becoming too subjective in their objectivity)

I view the two functions as then starting from the same point when given piece of information and going opposite directions (not necessarily to opposing conclusions, however). Fi preferring to work outward only going inward when harmony is not achieved, and Ti working inward venturing outward when the pieces do not fit. Thus, they are almost mirror processes, neither being more or less rational than the other; only as rational as the information going in. didn;t understand this bit?



It's a work in progress and I may not have organized my thoughts properly. Please tell me for personal view on how you use/experience these functions.
 
#124 ·
I think I'm an INFP that has both Fi and Ti... and almost no Te (O_O)

I don't really see why it is that Fi and Ti are never paired together in 1 MBTI type, because I don't see them as incompatible. I don't know how I can do this job if I don't understand how the whole system works, but that's something I do in a different situation than when I'm reflecting on whether doing that work feels right to me and my identity.
 
#128 ·
There's a kind of math to function order. Fi and Te always come in a pair, as do Ti and Fe, Si and Ne, Se and Ni.

If you are an introverted feeler, than by necessity you must be an extraverted thinker. Otherwise you would have no way of acquiring objective information[Te] to judge subjectively[Fi]. Ti and Fi in the same head would be entirely subjective without any empirical basis in reality. You'd be unable to function, psychologically.

The opposite would happen if you had, say, Fe and Te in the same stack. You'd be entirely at the mercy of your external environment with no way of making a decision for yourself.
 
#125 · (Edited)
I think when analyzing a situation where he needs to be involved, a Fi would think "how I would feel if I were in the place of the victim/ How would I feel if I was there" whereas a Ti would think "What would I do if I were in the place of the victim/ What would I do if I was there".

I think this is the best way to differentiate ti and fi but i'm not sure.
 
#126 · (Edited)
This is AUX and TERTIARY Fi, ENFP vs INTJ:



Fi preference is like Ti, you know what is correct even if objectively its out of line. One in logical systems, the other when it comes to ethics and feelings.

:p a Fi user certainly isn't going to attempt to influence the mood or comfort someone else, or to act on other people's ethics and feelings. If it happens its personal and subjective, expressed through some other medium like action or art, often not expressed at all.

Ti dom example (minus the lack of emotion part):

 
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