Type theories: accuracy, similarity and differences.

Type theories: accuracy, similarity and differences.

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This is a discussion on Type theories: accuracy, similarity and differences. within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; ...

  1. #1
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Type theories: accuracy, similarity and differences.

    Hello guys!

    This is my first post here and I don't know if I'm in the right forum.

    Read the last line of the post, then come back.


    My first contact with type theories was the internet MBTI tests: I thought the descriptions too "stereotyped". However, I took the MENTI model test, which tested me as INTJ (I've found the description creepy accurate, then I became interested). In addition, I wanted information about how they could predict my behavior/thoughts and I stepped at cognitive functions and type dynamics.

    I've done my research and I really think I am an MBTI INTJ. Correct me if I'm wrong about the functions:
    -Ni dom (long term system builder; wants input of a lot of information, which might be remembered when needed. Also, very good at seeing connections and predicting the future implications of current events);
    - Te auxiliary (focused on systems, understanding them, applying previous ideas/systems to improve the analyzed one; etc. — I thought it was a bad description, but can't think something better now);
    - Fi — not developed yet (I'm 16)
    - Se (some of my hobbies involve this function, but I thinks it's coincidence because I didn't seek the usage of Se in them. — hobbies: cooking, playing tennis, playing the piano, READING, STUDYING)

    I saw the description of INTp and INTj (socionics) and they, alone, didn't described me as well as the MENTI model or the cognitive functions (which needs interpretation, more subjective). I'm pretty sure I'm Ni dom and Te auxiliary, but socionics tested me as Ti dom and Ne auxiliary (=INTj). When I read the description of INT both of them fit me almost perfectly, but there's missing something on them. My interest in socionics is in the relationships (I want to know how they work), but for that I need my socionics type.

    My questions:
    1- Can I trust socionics relationships? I mean, if their description of types is missing something the relationship description will do it too.
    2- how can I convert someone type? ( I know there's a table in socionics that says that the first three letter are the same on MBTI, but how do covert those types to MENTI types?)
    3- I struggle typing some people (especially intuitives) how can I type people more accurately?
    3.1 - I have a friend that has very strong ethics and values, but a lot of these values are defend by society. I know this is limited information but can you help me differentiate SJ of NF in general?
    Obs1: my friend has lots of interests that are weird for feelers (such as neuroscience and oncology research. Also, she told me she wanted to work in a lab). However she displays her Fe very quickly and as auxiliary function.
    4- answer the question in the title of the post
    5- if during the text it seems that I left something to be answered, answer it.

    OBS2: I'm not a native speaker neither I talked to any native speaker, I apologize for my English mistakes.



  2. #2
    ENTJ - The Executives


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJcuriosity View Post
    I've done my research and I really think I am an MBTI INTJ. Correct me if I'm wrong about the functions:
    -Ni dom (long term system builder; wants input of a lot of information, which might be remembered when needed. Also, very good at seeing connections and predicting the future implications of current events);
    Here's I post I made on that:

    https://personalitycafe.com/cognitive...intuition.html

    - Te auxiliary (focused on systems, understanding them, applying previous ideas/systems to improve the analyzed one; etc. — I thought it was a bad description, but can't think something better now);
    Look up empiricism and rationalism. Te = empiricism. Ti = rationalism.

    I saw the description of INTp and INTj (socionics) and they, alone, didn't described me as well as the MENTI model or the cognitive functions (which needs interpretation, more subjective). I'm pretty sure I'm Ni dom and Te auxiliary, but socionics tested me as Ti dom and Ne auxiliary (=INTj). When I read the description of INT both of them fit me almost perfectly, but there's missing something on them. My interest in socionics is in the relationships (I want to know how they work), but for that I need my socionics type.

    My questions:
    1- Can I trust socionics relationships? I mean, if their description of types is missing something the relationship description will do it too.
    Socionics is very detailed...and very complicated. It is generally met with two extremes, absolute acceptance to the point of being superimposed over the MBTI, or coldly dismissed. Personally I am very skeptical of socionics. It strikes me as being pseudo-intellectual masturbation, and I have hard time seeing the function descriptions and sometimes even the type descriptions mirrored by actual individuals in the world. If you're going to pursue this topic in depth, read Psychological Types by Jung, who originated the entire theory. Then move on to breaking down the MBTI and socionics. A lot of people find Jung difficult, if that's the case start with Lenore Thomson. I think it's important to cast a skeptical eye towards everyone though, even Jung himself.

    2- how can I convert someone type? ( I know there's a table in socionics that says that the first three letter are the same on MBTI, but how do covert those types to MENTI types?)
    I've never even heard of the MENTI types, will research that a bit later.

    3- I struggle typing some people (especially intuitives) how can I type people more accurately?
    Read Jung and Lenore Thomson.

    3.1 - I have a friend that has very strong ethics and values, but a lot of these values are defend by society. I know this is limited information but can you help me differentiate SJ of NF in general?
    Obs1: my friend has lots of interests that are weird for feelers (such as neuroscience and oncology research. Also, she told me she wanted to work in a lab). However she displays her Fe very quickly and as auxiliary function.
    If it's Fe we're talking about, the possibilities are split between xSFJ and xNFJ. The difference then would be the perceiving function, which would have to be Ni or Si. Fe without a doubt, will fixate upon collective values, but the perceiving function "dictates" the foundation of those values. Si combined with Fe is partial towards tradition. Ni combined with Fe is forward thinking and will dismantle for the sake of collective progress.

    4- answer the question in the title of the post
    I'm of the opinion that none of the personality theories are scientifically sound. By that I mean empirical in the quantifiable sense. A few are just qualitative.

    We barely understand consciousness in the neuroscientific sense, and that causes me to think we're a long way off from proving the accuracy of any personality model.

  3. #3
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Thank you. I'll read it all when I have time.

    I asked that fried to do the test and she tested as ENFJ.
    However, in later conversation (we were talking about how the weekend was) she throwed at me that she doesn't like parties. Is it possible for an extravert to not like parties?

    Thinking about that, another doubt came to my mind: what are the types which often don't like parties? (don't like means "don't like", it DOESN'T mean "be drained by them" or "don't go to parties").



    About: Te = empirism and Ti = rationalism
    I have already studied this stuff in school (empirism with Locke and Hume; rationalism with Descartes). What would be the function (or combination of functions) which represent Francis Bacon?

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  5. #4
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJcuriosity View Post
    Thank you. I'll read it all when I have time.

    I asked that fried to do the test and she tested as ENFJ.
    However, in later conversation (we were talking about how the weekend was) she throwed at me that she doesn't like parties. Is it possible for an extravert to not like parties?

    Thinking about that, another doubt came to my mind: what are the types which often don't like parties? (don't like means "don't like", it DOESN'T mean "be drained by them" or "don't go to parties").
    Seriously? Haha, yes. An extrovert can dislike parties or even people. Sociability is the common way of understanding E/I but it's been simplified. According to Jung, Extraversion is essentially being oriented by objective demands (that of the outer world) and Introversion by subjective demands (that of the inner world).

    You can see the difference in logic with Te and Ti; it seems sort of like a desire for knowledge vs understanding. A Te user doesn't need to understand everything personally or put it into an internal framework, they typically value practical knowledge, efficiency, to know things as they are in reality or things being able to be verified by the external world hence empiricism. A Ti user may care less about data or facts and wants things to make sense to their (or an) internal framework and understanding the structure or something entirely. It's more conceptual/theoretical that way. Difference in the E/I regarding logic can be seen since Te wants logic to deal with their external world- be verified by it. You can see that Ti is introverted because it's concerned with personal understanding or reasoning, not necessarily caring about the practice.

    You don't have to like parties to be an extrovert, just be oriented objectively. An introvert could also like parties but they are introverts because they are oriented subjectively.

  6. #5
    Unknown

    The type theories are shadows of Jung.
    Some shadows are better outlined than others, but they are still shadows.
    You can learn a lot from reading about the theories, but personally I stick with Jung.


     

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