[ENFP] I just yelled at a kid and my co-workers told me it makes sense that I would at him.

I just yelled at a kid and my co-workers told me it makes sense that I would at him.

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This is a discussion on I just yelled at a kid and my co-workers told me it makes sense that I would at him. within the ENFP Forum - The Inspirers forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; I was teaching my class of 13-15 year olds and teens are not my strong-point as a teacher. I'm learning ...

  1. #1
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    I just yelled at a kid and my co-workers told me it makes sense that I would at him.

    I was teaching my class of 13-15 year olds and teens are not my strong-point as a teacher. I'm learning but I can't just entertain them by being silly like with younger kids, or be relatable like with adults which takes away my main strengths. Mostly I'm learning that the only thing teenagers respect or like is strength in whatever form that comes in.

    However, on this particular day this one kid, who can be a good kid but he was sulking that I moved him away from his friends, was testing and probing me the whole lesson (we teach 3 hour blocks with 5min breaks each hour- yeah.. I know.. but the overall teaching hours are pretty decent). I tried my best xNFJ impression and tried to explain in adult terms how this wasn't going to fly. Obviously this fell on deaf ears and he tested me further.

    Eventually I crossed my "line". I told him to go see the school head or if not just stand outside in the hallway because I was past the point of caring as long as he and his behaviour was removed from my classroom and my viscinity. I continued with the last 10 minutes of my class, and sent the rest of the kids home. I finished closing down the room and walked out, to find the kid standing silently in the hallway with his head hanging in shame.

    Now, in my principles, as far as I'm concerned I can use methods to discipline him, but if I just lose my temper that's MY fault, so I apologised and told him I shouldn't have yelled. To be fair he looked guilty and emotional and told me he should have behaved differently while looking like he was going to cry.

    Now, I don't know about other ENFPs, but this was something I've never encountered before. I've never taught teenagers before this year, I've always been a nice entertain-ey creative sort of teacher who is far better with younger kids or adults. I've never lost my temper at a kid to a point where I just yelled "CLOSE THE DOOR ON YOUR WAY OUT" I was a hairs breath from cussing.

    I went back to the staffroom where I of course shared with my co-workers who were basically like "yep- that sounds about right, that doesn't surprise me at all" because the kid can be quite cheeky. It may not surprise them, but it definitely surprised me, I've had moments where I've Te-line defended myself, but I've never been the authority figure being harsh on someone before. Plus, you know, it's that ENFP tendency to see people as the best versions of themselves over however they happen to be behaving at that moment. I felt like I basically yelled at an overall bright and good kid who will grow up to be a good guy.

    My conscience is so unsettled by this. What do you guys think? I basically would like some similar stories and general theraputic advice here.
    Mudlark, Llyralen, Falling Foxes and 1 others thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tridentus View Post
    I was teaching my class of 13-15 year olds and teens are not my strong-point as a teacher. I'm learning but I can't just entertain them by being silly like with younger kids, or be relatable like with adults which takes away my main strengths. Mostly I'm learning that the only thing teenagers respect or like is strength in whatever form that comes in.

    However, on this particular day this one kid, who can be a good kid but he was sulking that I moved him away from his friends, was testing and probing me the whole lesson (we teach 3 hour blocks with 5min breaks each hour- yeah.. I know.. but the overall teaching hours are pretty decent). I tried my best xNFJ impression and tried to explain in adult terms how this wasn't going to fly. Obviously this fell on deaf ears and he tested me further.

    Eventually I crossed my "line". I told him to go see the school head or if not just stand outside in the hallway because I was past the point of caring as long as he and his behaviour was removed from my classroom and my viscinity. I continued with the last 10 minutes of my class, and sent the rest of the kids home. I finished closing down the room and walked out, to find the kid standing silently in the hallway with his head hanging in shame.

    Now, in my principles, as far as I'm concerned I can use methods to discipline him, but if I just lose my temper that's MY fault, so I apologised and told him I shouldn't have yelled. To be fair he looked guilty and emotional and told me he should have behaved differently while looking like he was going to cry.

    Now, I don't know about other ENFPs, but this was something I've never encountered before. I've never taught teenagers before this year, I've always been a nice entertain-ey creative sort of teacher who is far better with younger kids or adults. I've never lost my temper at a kid to a point where I just yelled "CLOSE THE DOOR ON YOUR WAY OUT" I was a hairs breath from cussing.

    I went back to the staffroom where I of course shared with my co-workers who were basically like "yep- that sounds about right, that doesn't surprise me at all" because the kid can be quite cheeky. It may not surprise them, but it definitely surprised me, I've had moments where I've Te-line defended myself, but I've never been the authority figure being harsh on someone before. Plus, you know, it's that ENFP tendency to see people as the best versions of themselves over however they happen to be behaving at that moment. I felt like I basically yelled at an overall bright and good kid who will grow up to be a good guy.

    My conscience is so unsettled by this. What do you guys think? I basically would like some similar stories and general theraputic advice here.
    You got stressed out by a kid that kept testing you. And then you lashed out. Yes, that makes perfect sense and is an understandable reaction. You have the feels too, even if you're the professional in this scenario.

    You are surprised by your own behavior? You've never lashed out at someone under stress or when defensive or whatever? Okay, maybe your outburst came out of nowhere and you're surprised it happened, but I don't see any issue with it. You even apologized afterward...

    What you basically did is you acted how you would have acted in that scenario. Maybe you learned a bit about your limits or maybe you were low on patience in that moment, etc.

  3. #3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tridentus View Post
    I was teaching my class of 13-15 year olds and teens are not my strong-point as a teacher. I'm learning but I can't just entertain them by being silly like with younger kids, or be relatable like with adults which takes away my main strengths. Mostly I'm learning that the only thing teenagers respect or like is strength in whatever form that comes in.

    However, on this particular day this one kid, who can be a good kid but he was sulking that I moved him away from his friends, was testing and probing me the whole lesson (we teach 3 hour blocks with 5min breaks each hour- yeah.. I know.. but the overall teaching hours are pretty decent). I tried my best xNFJ impression and tried to explain in adult terms how this wasn't going to fly. Obviously this fell on deaf ears and he tested me further.

    Eventually I crossed my "line". I told him to go see the school head or if not just stand outside in the hallway because I was past the point of caring as long as he and his behaviour was removed from my classroom and my viscinity. I continued with the last 10 minutes of my class, and sent the rest of the kids home. I finished closing down the room and walked out, to find the kid standing silently in the hallway with his head hanging in shame.

    Now, in my principles, as far as I'm concerned I can use methods to discipline him, but if I just lose my temper that's MY fault, so I apologised and told him I shouldn't have yelled. To be fair he looked guilty and emotional and told me he should have behaved differently while looking like he was going to cry.

    Now, I don't know about other ENFPs, but this was something I've never encountered before. I've never taught teenagers before this year, I've always been a nice entertain-ey creative sort of teacher who is far better with younger kids or adults. I've never lost my temper at a kid to a point where I just yelled "CLOSE THE DOOR ON YOUR WAY OUT" I was a hairs breath from cussing.

    I went back to the staffroom where I of course shared with my co-workers who were basically like "yep- that sounds about right, that doesn't surprise me at all" because the kid can be quite cheeky. It may not surprise them, but it definitely surprised me, I've had moments where I've Te-line defended myself, but I've never been the authority figure being harsh on someone before. Plus, you know, it's that ENFP tendency to see people as the best versions of themselves over however they happen to be behaving at that moment. I felt like I basically yelled at an overall bright and good kid who will grow up to be a good guy.

    My conscience is so unsettled by this. What do you guys think? I basically would like some similar stories and general theraputic advice here.
    Hmm. It's going to happen every once in a while. If they are challenging your authority and being rude, you're gonna draw a line. That's all you were doing. You didn't attack him or ridicule him which would have been crossing horrible boundaries. Instead you basically just showed that his attitude was unacceptable.

    The really really really important part of this story in my opinion is that THIS kid said sorry and was obviously penitent. He checked himself. If you are nice and friendly with this kid tomorrow he is going to absolutely LOVE you, okay? That's my hunch. Mutual forgiveness is a beautiful beautiful beautiful thing.

    I've had situations where I've had to blow up at adults before for treating my staff badly and usually they act a bit better and haughty and miffed, but every once in a while you get a sincere apology at which point I can apologize too, just like you did. It builds a bond of trust that actually brings tears to my eyes to think about in the situations that I've seen it.
    My kids too--- that mutual forgiveness.... dang there's hardly anything I love more. I know I can truly trust someone who has apologized of their own free will and were truly sorry and knowing you can trust someone like that is beautiful.


    I think I'm tired and re-stating myself. Ugg. I stayed up too late on PerC!!!! Forgive me!!!
    UberY0shi, Marvin the Dendroid and Tridentus thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    You're upset, because you've worked so hard, and don't feel appreciated. First off, middle-school teaching is probably one of the toughest jobs anyone can have. Talk about stress level. You're under the scope of a lot of things happening here. I'm not sure what kind of shcool culture you're working under, depending on the school superintendent. You have to balance the guidelines of the school you're working under for, and then you're dealing with raging hormonal teenagers.

    One of my best Jr. high school teachers really set the tone of the class by really allowing us students be.

    Kids at that age will do what they want to do, no matter what. They're rebellious for a reason, and it's healthy for their personal identity development.

    I once worked with teenagers who were at alternative school. They were at-risk students who were either pregnant, had mental health issues, were at risk of being pregnant, were forcibly left here alone abandoned in the U.S. without their parents after their parents were deported. Luckily, I wasn't their instructor, so I feel you, because it's nerve wrecking to try to teach kids, let alone a classroom for of teenagers.

    Sounds like you and he came the the conclusion that you were both way out of line with each other. At this point, you want to build trust. Talk to him after-class or at the beginning. No one truly likes confrontations, but teenagers can be punks at times. You really have to talk to them where they're at in their emotional developmental stage. Connect.

    What kids truly want at that age is to be heard. They need lots of validation, and accurate empathy. You can build rapport by just by being their and acknowledging them individually. They want to know that you as the adult, and as the authority figure are rooting for them that you have their best interests at heart. So you're going to have to relate to them in an authoritative kind of way. (No one likes to be controlled, especially teens, unless we're talking about submissive emotional sadomasochism- lordy).

    The teachers that often get picked on the most by teens are the authoritarian types. They have you also know that you care. And once you establish that rapport with them, they might even seek you out to talk to them individually after class.

    Setting the tone for the class is about building trust. And conflict can sometimes help people to grow to understand each other more, so it's not bad that you confronted him for pushing your buttons.

    Perhaps you might want to assess what's really going on with the child, as you mentioned he's a bright kid.

    Sometimes kids act up because of problems at home. Maybe their parents are fighting, or maybe they're raised by a single parent. Maybe they're witnessing domestic violence. Their could be numerous factors. They could be just hanging out with other juvinile gangsters, many reasons, all of the above combined or not.

    You kinda have to be their counselor, but build that trust slowly. You don't want to get too close to this student too soon, he'll probably feel a little threatened especially after what you said (which is a totally normal human reaction for that circumstance). I'm sure his little group of friends will also need some pep-talk too.

    Also, teenagers especially, need people who they can relate to. By being authentic, they'll respect you more.

    Your way of being is critical. Try not to put up any kind of persona (you mentioned trying to appear INFJ or otherwise). Kids are absolutely astute at recognizing when people aren't being authentic. Genuineness. Try not to be anyone else that you're not. That will help you with your teaching style.

    At the end of the day, teens can be a lot of fun to work with if you're present. Sometimes, the less you try, the more you achieve.

    Just by being present and being genuine, they'll respect you more. Teenagers love genuine people. You not only meet them at their level, you're showing you accept them, you're showing them you're not judging them. And that can truly be therapeutic all on its own.
    Last edited by strawberryLola; 04-22-2019 at 10:49 PM.
    Fru2 and Tridentus thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Carl Rogers is a perfect example of a way of being.


    Teenagers often will start up their new early romances at this age- shame, blame, fear, abandonment. Study this guy. He's a really great resource for knowledge for you to understand your students more. He's excellent in the way he's genuine and connects with people.

    Dr. Mario Martinez:
    Tridentus thanked this post.

  7. #6
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Thanks guys this really helps a lot.

    @strawberryLola
    Thanks what you say makes a lot of sense. Part of the problem has indeed been the school culture I guess- teaching at a private academy in Korea means a lot of pressure put onto the school by parents, and while "Korean staff" are there to deflect that off the teachers, the trickle down effect means that I have to teach a certain way. It's very rigid and very annoying because a classroom run to the personality of the teacher has to have all the components that make up the full picture you know? It's like you're trying to paint an oil painting, but someone else is telling you which brush to use at what time and mixing your colour palette for you. It's frustrating because you get a product which is not what it should be, and then your manager questions why the painting hasn't come out the way that you said it would.

    My classrooms can look a little more chaotic to anyone who believes in a strongly disciplined class, and my boundaries would definitely like a looser classroom. I don't believe in being rigid because I believe that people's brains function faster and memorise better if they are engaged. I'm allowed to do that more with the younger kids since they're more relaxed about them, but the Korean education environment at teenage age is every bit what I'd heard before coming here. I still think teenagers would be my weakest age-range but I could be far more effective without feeling watched all the time (literally by the way, there's CCTV in the classrooms and the manager observes our lessons all the time).

    But yes. Some serious growing pains, a can of worms that I won't open much more, but that's what makes us stronger right?

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Tridentus View Post
    I was teaching my class of 13-15 year olds and teens are not my strong-point as a teacher. I'm learning but I can't just entertain them by being silly like with younger kids, or be relatable like with adults which takes away my main strengths. Mostly I'm learning that the only thing teenagers respect or like is strength in whatever form that comes in.

    However, on this particular day this one kid, who can be a good kid but he was sulking that I moved him away from his friends, was testing and probing me the whole lesson (we teach 3 hour blocks with 5min breaks each hour- yeah.. I know.. but the overall teaching hours are pretty decent). I tried my best xNFJ impression and tried to explain in adult terms how this wasn't going to fly. Obviously this fell on deaf ears and he tested me further.

    Eventually I crossed my "line". I told him to go see the school head or if not just stand outside in the hallway because I was past the point of caring as long as he and his behaviour was removed from my classroom and my viscinity. I continued with the last 10 minutes of my class, and sent the rest of the kids home. I finished closing down the room and walked out, to find the kid standing silently in the hallway with his head hanging in shame.

    Now, in my principles, as far as I'm concerned I can use methods to discipline him, but if I just lose my temper that's MY fault, so I apologised and told him I shouldn't have yelled. To be fair he looked guilty and emotional and told me he should have behaved differently while looking like he was going to cry.

    Now, I don't know about other ENFPs, but this was something I've never encountered before. I've never taught teenagers before this year, I've always been a nice entertain-ey creative sort of teacher who is far better with younger kids or adults. I've never lost my temper at a kid to a point where I just yelled "CLOSE THE DOOR ON YOUR WAY OUT" I was a hairs breath from cussing.

    I went back to the staffroom where I of course shared with my co-workers who were basically like "yep- that sounds about right, that doesn't surprise me at all" because the kid can be quite cheeky. It may not surprise them, but it definitely surprised me, I've had moments where I've Te-line defended myself, but I've never been the authority figure being harsh on someone before. Plus, you know, it's that ENFP tendency to see people as the best versions of themselves over however they happen to be behaving at that moment. I felt like I basically yelled at an overall bright and good kid who will grow up to be a good guy.

    My conscience is so unsettled by this. What do you guys think? I basically would like some similar stories and general theraputic advice here.
    First, I do think you shouldn't have yelled, but it's bound to happen sometimes, so please don't be so guilty on it.

    Second, I don't know, but I am totally at ease with telling people off and send them out of my viscinity if all are too much for me and for other people around. Sometimes, if people go too far we must stop them at some point. And teenage, especially pass 14 up should be self-aware and level-headed enough to not act so unwisely like this. At least, if your warnings went unnoticed for, say, 2 times, the next time should be hammer (telling him off right there, ask him to leave or whatever)

    And being bright and good are not an excuse for acting so unwisely. Why did you move him from his friends? Was he talking very loudly? If that is the case, it's better to let him learn that he needs to be aware of the consequences. If that was not the case, at least challenging you and don't listen are not good behaviour anyway. But as I said you shouldn't have yelled but I understand how you'd feel back then. A good steel still needed to be hammered and refined so do bright and talented children. :)

    So I don't think you are wrong, but you should tell him reasons. Teenage can be quite destructive to himself if left misunderstood.
    Tridentus thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Teenagers can be dicks. Nothing new here.

    I think there are three really objective things to be taken from this ordeal.

    The first is that you shouldn't have yelled. I'm not gonna hammer on this point because you already know it - it's unprofessional, you're the adult, etc etc. What I do have to say on it is, don't be too hard on yourself because of it. It's your first time working with teenagers. And no matter how hard you prepare, it's pretty impossible to be ready to someone purposefully pushing your buttons. It was a mistake, but shit happens, and most importantly, you're here, trying to figure a way to do better, which just shows that you're someone who cares about your job and about your students. That's more than I can say for a LOT of professors out there. So deep respect, man.

    Which brings me to point two - how to do better. There's something to be learned from this experience. This mischievous kid somehow triggered you. He found a weak spot. He found, as you said it yourself, your line. I suppose the right questions here, or at least what I would ask myself is, "How did he make me snap?".

    Or, more specifically, what is this line of yours, why is it a sore spot, and what can you do about it so that you don't lose your patience again. Because if you're gonna be working with teenagers, chances are they will keep pushing your buttons. So it's on you to understand yourself and figure out what you can do to prevent it from happening. You've said that you know your temper is your own responsability, and I admire you a lot for that - for taking it on yourself to learn and do better. You sound like a really good teacher, and a really good person.

    Third thing is, of course, making amends. I'll admit this is the point which I struggle the most with. ENTJs and feelings, man, I suck at it. Now if it were an adult, I'd just go "fam I fucked up, my bad", but since it's a teen there's a bit more at play here. You did apologize, but there's this whole power thing going on - you as an authority, him challenging it - and so I'm honestly not sure about the hows of strongly putting him in his place while admitting your mistake.

    There's one more thing, a subjective one, it's more of a general vibe I got from you, let me try to put this into words:

    It seems to me that what you want to teach this kids is more than just whatever your subject is. You don't want the kid to learn just maths from you, you want him to learn how to be a good man. You don't want to be just a teacher, you want to be an example.

    And that, I think, is why this thing unsettled you so much and why your colleagues were generally indifferent to it. Cause you wanna be more, and while what you did might have helped the class learn the area of a triangle, it also harmed the image you want to pass - the reference figure you want to be. You look at those kids and you realize they're not just learning numbers, they're learning how to behave. They're watching the way you act, and you want to inspire them to be their best selves.

    Y'know, that's an admirable thing. And I wanted to bring it to light because I think maybe, just maybe, this is a thing which might help you next time. When your patience runs dry, remind yourself that "I want those students to learn from me how to deal with difficult situations in their lives,". Man, that's way more important than SAT subjects. And I think if you remember it, you'll be able to take a step back and figure out how to manage them.

    Hope this was helpful! <3
    Tridentus thanked this post.

  10. #9

    Well I have one thing to say that it shouldn't have gotten to the point where you had to yell at the kid when you could have told him to leave earlier as kids are never going to forget moments like that and I've been in that kid's shoes so to speak. Been yelled at a few times and once a coach tried to strangle me out of rage but naturally the superintendent did absolutely nothing about it.


     

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