[ENFP] Love Me If you Dare (2003)? F*cked up ESTP and ENFP couple. - Page 3

Love Me If you Dare (2003)? F*cked up ESTP and ENFP couple.

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This is a discussion on Love Me If you Dare (2003)? F*cked up ESTP and ENFP couple. within the ENFP Forum - The Inspirers forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; ...

  1. #21
    Unknown

    Love Me If you Dare (2003)? F*cked up ESTP and ENFP couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneM View Post
    THAT FUCKING MOVIE!!!! THANKS A LOT!!! I AM TOTALLY TRAUMATIZED!!!

    How in the world could they have been ESTP and ENFP? That crazy shit was her 4D Fi-3D Se and his 2D-Fi and 1D-Se on crack all the way. INTJ (him) and ISFP (her). I've seen over and over in movies and lit INTJs fall for these crazy ISFP chicks and proceed to have a semi-violent love-hate relationship.

    They gave not two shits about ANYONE around them. Would an ESTP or ENFP behave in such a manner?? I don't think so.
    Julian is text book estp- he lives in the moment - understand his surroundings and is excited by challenges and dare - it feeds his adrenaline to the point that after Sophie kissed him - he couldn’t help but say “game” in wanting to win the challenge in that moment - which causes her to storm off .
    His dare on Sophie is clearly in the moment / it’s not planned out for years to come ( low Ni) he often time get lost in the moment due to impulsive behavior that it effects negatively towards his future focus

    He doesn’t have inferior Se he has dominant Se

    He’s extremely in tune with his immediate physical and he is frequently seeking new experiences, stimuli, or acquaintances-

    He used Ti - could care less for rules - he create his own rules - and is often motivated by the prospect of rewards and status ( he can’t get over the fact that Sophie’s husband is better than him and is constantly challenging himself ) he’s in love with Sophie but have a hard time admitting it bc what’s in losing ?
    He lacks Te- his thoughts are kept within - nobody know what he is thinking - he creates and play with systemic logic since he was a child - he creates things in the moment and enjoy compelling others

    Sophie is an enfp Ne-fi

    She lives and gain energy through connecting ideas - look at her dare on Julian Vs his towards her -

    It was always derive from an idea of something- and she’s at her happiest when she’s able to express herself through connections she finds - she’s not an fi dom -
    She uses fi sure - but it’s in an aux position - she can’t go as far as Julien in nearly having her run over by a train - her te tert provides facts for her Ne - she plans and execute things sure but it’s within objective matter - also Te is her relief function not her inferior - she strives during stressful situation- she speaks her thoughts aloud ( Te) so that she can gain exterior knowledge- yet keep her emotions within ( fi )
    She is haunted by her past and can’t seem to escape it when she’s at her worst - she’s gets repetitively unwanted thoughts crossing her mind when she soaks emotions in . She can’t get over Julien not could she get over the fact that he referred her to the game they played . (Inferior Si)

    Any type can be selfish - function describes how ones mind work . She enjoys playing the game to show her mentality is better than his ( Ne) and pretty much living her life to revenge him( inferior Si - she is trapped in the past )


    Both of these characters are toxic - I find him more crazier than she is - the movie was meant to be random - hilarious- realistic yet abstract - it’s pure enjoyment for an Ne’s mind - one idea leads to the next and the next - the ending is subjective.
    Isfp and intj are not selfish either / however they’re not playing opposing functions with one another
    Both are Pe Dom .
    You’re not suppose to take the movie seriously- after all its dark humor - guess it’s more suited for an Nps mind .



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  2. #22
    INFJ

    @ai.tran.75

    If PerC has taught me one thing, it is how very different people are! You'd think I would've learned that by the ripe age of 33, but apparently it took this site.

    I wouldn't call that movie comedy in a million years. I had to keep pausing it because it stressed me out and upset me so badly. In fact, we watched the first half and had to stop for the night and finish it the next day.

    I also see that MBTI can be interpreted wildly differently. Just because two people study it hardcore doesn't mean they will agree, even on the basics. Mind-blowing. I always thought it was a very straight-forward matter-of-fact system, not really open to interpretation. I was wrong, I guess.

    Just one question, though: what kind of ENFP and ESTP have not one single other friend?

  3. #23
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneM View Post
    @ai.tran.75

    .

    Just one question, though: what kind of ENFP and ESTP have not one single other friend?
    A lot of extrovert have no friends vs introversion. Have tons of friends / social introversion or extroversion deals less with cognitive functions itself . Many enfp have no friends- many estp have only acquaintances. I don’t think you can fit an exact stereotype bc in the end these are functions coming out to play

    Also considering the fact that both type are married- I assume their back story is left behind- we don’t really see much of anyone else in their life bc the movie was meant to be centered focus on them -
    Yeah people are different- I find the movie hilarious- my infp friend introduces it to me- it’s the randomness of how toxic both characters are that make things more humorous- but like I said it’s Ne humor- it was never meant to be taken seriously


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  5. #24
    INFJ

    Just some other quick notes:

    Julian's clever wordplay throughout the film is something INTJs do, not ESTPs.

    They have an Ni connection (the scene when she's driving away from the hospital and they have a telepathic moment).

    Have to pull on socionics here.....would an ENFP, having 4D background Fe, really be able to disregard other people's feelings like she does? An ISFP would have that ability, because they ignore Fe. An ENFP can use Fi like a tool, and turn it off and on. The ENFPs I know would never wreak so much havoc on their environment. I think they care a lot more about group harmony than ISFPs do.

    If Julian were an ESTP, he wouldn't have ended that bathroom tryst in high school with such casual meanness, knowing full well that would prevent any further positive interaction with the girl. An ESTP would've wanted to end on a good note, so she would continue to be interested in him and available in the future. ESTPs like to keep their romantic/sexual options wide open. They cultivate connections, not sabotage them.

    The whole thing with the weird carousel box seems like total Ni to me. It's a symbol that carries tremendous weight for both of them. It has a power all its own over them both. That's an Ni thing, not an Ne thing.

    His dare on Sophie is clearly in the moment / it’s not planned out for years to come
    What about the 4 year separation and the engagement and the dinner at the restaurant? That required SERIOUS planning and brilliant execution. And a level of meanness that I just don't think an ESTP is capable of. ESTPs hurt people, sure, but I really don't think they do it on purpose. Furthermore, they want so much to be liked that they are willing to forgive and forget pretty easily. I think an ESTP in a situation with this girl would've just moved on, being in the moment and all.

    He doesn’t have inferior Se he has dominant Se

    He’s extremely in tune with his immediate physical and he is frequently seeking new experiences, stimuli, or acquaintances-
    Inferior Se can look a lot like dominant Se, especially if the person is unhealthy. During my most out of control periods, people thought I was an ESTP. All of my behavior pointed to that. But I couldn't keep it up forever. I went from acting like the world's most messed up ESTP to crashing into myself as the world's most messed up INFJ.

    What new acquaintances and experiences does he seek? He's totally obsessed with her. The only experiences and stimuli he craves have to come from her. He's not off having hobbies, making friends, or enjoying life at all. He has that Ni-Se tunnel vision.

    Furthermore, think of him on the construction site! With that paper! That's an Ni-dom if ever there was one.....totally lost in his mind, thinking about those ten years.


    ( he can’t get over the fact that Sophie’s husband is better than him and is constantly challenging himself )
    I didn't see this at all. They didn't stress that he had struggled to get where he was. I saw it as the kind of success that INTJs often do experience in careers when they just buckle down and sell their souls. He sure wasn't happy with any of that upper middle class life! I really think he only had a problem with the soccer player because the soccer player had HER.

    The whole thing looks like what's called an "activation relationship" in socionics. It has all the magnetic pull of a dual relationship because you share both axes. HOWEVER, it cannot be sustained without significant breaks in contact. It's too intense. You each have the other's tertiary (activating) function dominant which makes you salivate for the other. Your creative (secondary) functions are the other's inferior function, which draws you like a magnet.

    The main problem with this type of relationship is that IF both people go to an unhealthy place, they get stuck in the SAME dom-tertiary loop, in this instance Ni-Fi. As a single individual, you can pull out of a loop if you just admit that your tertiary function isn't as developed and wonderful as you think it is. But if you are sharing energy with a person who has the function as dominant? You can lie to yourself all day long. He brought his 4D Ni to the table, and she brought her 4D Fi, and they were totally consumed by a quadrant foreign to both of them.

  6. #25
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneM View Post
    Just some other quick notes:

    Julian's clever wordplay throughout the film is something INTJs do, not ESTPs.

    They have an Ni connection (the scene when she's driving away from the hospital and they have a telepathic moment).

    Have to pull on socionics here.....would an ENFP, having 4D background Fe, really be able to disregard other people's feelings like she does? An ISFP would have that ability, because they ignore Fe. An ENFP can use Fi like a tool, and turn it off and on. The ENFPs I know would never wreak so much havoc on their environment. I think they care a lot more about group harmony than ISFPs do.

    If Julian were an ESTP, he wouldn't have ended that bathroom tryst in high school with such casual meanness, knowing full well that would prevent any further positive interaction with the girl. An ESTP would've wanted to end on a good note, so she would continue to be interested in him and available in the future. ESTPs like to keep their romantic/sexual options wide open. They cultivate connections, not sabotage them.

    The whole thing with the weird carousel box seems like total Ni to me. It's a symbol that carries tremendous weight for both of them. It has a power all its own over them both. That's an Ni thing, not an Ne thing.



    What about the 4 year separation and the engagement and the dinner at the restaurant? That required SERIOUS planning and brilliant execution. And a level of meanness that I just don't think an ESTP is capable of. ESTPs hurt people, sure, but I really don't think they do it on purpose. Furthermore, they want so much to be liked that they are willing to forgive and forget pretty easily. I think an ESTP in a situation with this girl would've just moved on, being in the moment and all.



    Inferior Se can look a lot like dominant Se, especially if the person is unhealthy. During my most out of control periods, people thought I was an ESTP. All of my behavior pointed to that. But I couldn't keep it up forever. I went from acting like the world's most messed up ESTP to crashing into myself as the world's most messed up INFJ.

    What new acquaintances and experiences does he seek? He's totally obsessed with her. The only experiences and stimuli he craves have to come from her. He's not off having hobbies, making friends, or enjoying life at all. He has that Ni-Se tunnel vision.

    Furthermore, think of him on the construction site! With that paper! That's an Ni-dom if ever there was one.....totally lost in his mind, thinking about those ten years.




    I didn't see this at all. They didn't stress that he had struggled to get where he was. I saw it as the kind of success that INTJs often do experience in careers when they just buckle down and sell their souls. He sure wasn't happy with any of that upper middle class life! I really think he only had a problem with the soccer player because the soccer player had HER.

    The whole thing looks like what's called an "activation relationship" in socionics. It has all the magnetic pull of a dual relationship because you share both axes. HOWEVER, it cannot be sustained without significant breaks in contact. It's too intense. You each have the other's tertiary (activating) function dominant which makes you salivate for the other. Your creative (secondary) functions are the other's inferior function, which draws you like a magnet.

    The main problem with this type of relationship is that IF both people go to an unhealthy place, they get stuck in the SAME dom-tertiary loop, in this instance Ni-Fi. As a single individual, you can pull out of a loop if you just admit that your tertiary function isn't as developed and wonderful as you think it is. But if you are sharing energy with a person who has the function as dominant? You can lie to yourself all day long. He brought his 4D Ni to the table, and she brought her 4D Fi, and they were totally consumed by a quadrant foreign to both of them.
    They’re best friend of course they get telepathic moment - I get telepathic moment with my husband all the time - we don’t use the same function
    They could always read each other’s mind set hence the fear in letting the other party win



    She does take onto people’s emotions- she could never let him lie in front of a train track or dare him to the point of getting his wrist broken - course they’re both selfish - any mbti type can be selfish - also fe doesn’t make one saint- any type can value harmony - humans in general do

    Except Julian Se doesn’t work against him his Ni does- he is so wrapped up in playing the game of hurting her( keep in mind they’ve known each other since childhood- regardless of type she will play a big part - more so if he was actually in love with her all along and her image pops up nonstop) he saw her realized this is a good opportunity to hurt her deeply out of the pain that she causes him - it’s inferior Ni - he rarely thinks of anyone future including his own - only thing he could plan out is how to beat the game ( Se dom) he’s not neglectful of his children but his impulsive behavior to win causes that - if it’s Ni dom - he would have dropped the game on his wedding day knowing he’ll win by hurting her most - yet he still has to play it .
    They are drawn to each other through the games they play - for her the idea of the game and later on revenging on him for hurting her - for him it was pure impulse- he’s so wrapped up in winning he forgot what he really wants .

    Both characters are driven by impulse- also Sophie lacks Se-Ni - she is trapped in the “what could’ve been stage “ from the beginning to the end of the movie .


    You have yet to meet a toxic xnfp - they really could care less for anyone or anything for all that matters besides themselves- their te feeds fact to their Ne that it’s ok to do certain things bc it related to objective facts - I got a death threat from an Enfp on this forum - highly doubt he takes regards in anyone’s feelings.


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  7. #26
    INFJ

    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Anybody else want to chime in?

    Quote Originally Posted by ai.tran.75 View Post

    You have yet to meet a toxic xnfp - they really could care less for anyone or anything for all that matters besides themselves- their te feeds fact to their Ne that it’s ok to do certain things bc it related to objective facts - I got a death threat from an Enfp on this forum - highly doubt he takes regards in anyone’s feelings.
    Yikes! You know, I definitely haven't met a toxic ENFP. Thank GOD!
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  8. #27
    INFJ

    Some other film examples of this type of relationship (INTJ man-ISFP woman.) I have pages of journals about this dynamic, because for some reason I got super interested in it for a hot minute.









    (See how their fight turns them on?)
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  9. #28

    @AnneM

    Yeah I disagree. Ni is most definitely not the only function that can have that kind of connection.
    Even then, Julien and Sophie’s connection is not singular function related.

    I have ISFP friends and knew some INTJs. They would not ever pull the impulsive shenanigans Julien and Sophie pulled off.

    There whole dynamic was the definition of self absorbed and unhealthy ExxP and ExxP obsessed with each other.

    Julien is 100% Se dom. He’s too spontaneous, rash and action oriented. He jumps in cars, race and crashes it without fear. I’d like to see an INTJ even attempt to do that.

    Sophie can arguably be ISFP, but she had Ne throughout the film. She comes up with the ideas which Julien plays off of and then she follows.
    Marion is an ISFP irl so I can see why she can come off ISFP through Sophie, but her role was pretty blatant unhealthy ENFP.

    And yeah, I don’t think you e encountered an unhealthy ENFP obsessively in love yet, but that’s pretty much how they act. Self absorbed and uncaring of other people especially her surroundings.
    Last edited by Katie Tran; 09-09-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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  10. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie Tran View Post
    You can rent it for a few bucks on Amazon and watch straight from it. Let me know your thoughts if you ever get to it.
    I may do that tomorrow. P.S. I checked out Orange is the New Black and Nicky.... way off base I would befriend Tasha,Red, Gloria, Lorna(she is a bit off kilter though)Sophia and Alex for sure.Then again I am only on S4 now.
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  11. #30
    INFJ

    Quote Originally Posted by ENIGMA2019 View Post
    I may do that tomorrow.
    Please do watch it, Engima. I need to hear an ESTP's opinion on it. If you say you think that dude is an ESTP, I guess I'll surrender. Until then.....never!!!


     
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