[ENFP] ADVICE NEEDED --> INFJ Crush on ENFP: Hopless???

ADVICE NEEDED --> INFJ Crush on ENFP: Hopless???

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This is a discussion on ADVICE NEEDED --> INFJ Crush on ENFP: Hopless??? within the ENFP Forum - The Inspirers forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; This is going to be a long story, so settle in and sit tight. Ultimately, yes, this is me asking ...

  1. #1
    INFJ - The Protectors

    ADVICE NEEDED --> INFJ Crush on ENFP: Hopless???

    This is going to be a long story, so settle in and sit tight. Ultimately, yes, this is me asking for personal "relationship" advice (if you could really call it that when I'm not in a relationship).

    First off, a little background about myself: I'm an INFJ and HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) with ADD, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, SPD (Sensory Processing Disorder), anxiety issues, and seasonal depression. I've always considered myself to be an outcast, an oddball, with far too much emotional baggage (just from having to live with all those conditions) and too many issues to be considered as "dating material" or "girlfriend potential" or whatever. I've just never attracted that kind of attention from guys. Ever. At least, not as far as I know. It really wasn't until tenth grade that I even started being able to talk to guys casually as friends. I've always spent a lot of time reading in favor of human interaction, as well as writing both prose and poetry. I'm more conservatively-minded, you could say. Conservative about a lot of things, but what matters most in this situation is that I don't wear short skirts, or low tops, or crop tops, or tiny shorts, or anything like that. I've never considered myself attractive, and I don't have much in the way of looks. At least weight isn't a problem for me, being 5'6" and a consistent 120 lbs. Even so, I keep thinking that I should get myself thinner, because maybe it'd make me more attractive somehow. I don't have any eating disorders, but the SPD gets in the way because it makes me feel like I'm always hungry even when I'm not, hence my love-hate relationship with food. That's me in a nutshell.

    I've had crushes before, and whenever I have a crush on a guy, it always lasts for a long time and really hurts, because it never gets anywhere beyond my own mind. Well, I'm a senior in high-school now, and, having gone to the same K-12 school all my life, I've known a lot of the people in my small graduating class since kindergarten, including the ENFP on whom I have a crush now. (I promise I'm getting to the point soon.) I won't go into all of the many, many details of the interactions he and I have had in the past year, for I fear it'd bore you (even though much of the information is pertinent), but I will say that I've had a crush on him since early August of 2014, and though I've been doing my absolute best, under the circumstances, to interact with him more and to get to know him better and to talk to him as much as I can, I've been so very limited that I only get maybe 15 minutes a day to talk to him, or less. I'm afraid that he's subject to the out-of-sight-out-of-mind paradigm that other ENFPs have as well. And no matter how much I research what ENFPs do when they like somebody, I can't seem to be able to pin him down on one side of the spectrum or the other. I can't tell if he's just a really nice guy, with a dash of that classic ENFP flirtiness that makes me blush and giggle like a middle-school girl, or if he is sincerely interested in me.

    Neither of us have made any overt attempts towards an official romantic relationship with the other, and I've always been on my best behavior to be as pleasant and pretty and polite as possible with him. I feel like I've always been the one seeking him out, and that it's never the other way around, which is why I think he doesn't Like me. But, on the other hand, we have a lot of similarities in our interests, and while we don't necessarily agree 100% on everything, we always share some sort of common ground and can calmly agree that the parts we don't agree on are of lesser importance, or at least, that they're matters requiring more research or insight or knowledge to fully resolve than is available to either of us. He's so overwhelmingly positive that I've never seen him sad or upset or angry at anyone; he has an even-tempered-ness that I envy, and I can tell that being around him helps to balance me out and calm down my anxiety. His spontaneity loosens me up while my practicality brings him back down to earth sometimes. He has an incredibly talented mind, as well, being an artist/athlete/engineer/philosopher/reader. While it's true that there seem to be a lot of people like that at my school, more so than you'd usually find in high-schools I suppose, he's one of the ones who seems to excel in everything. He makes me want to be social in a way that few other people do, and when I talk to him, I feel understood. And I suppose that he must trust me too, in a way, because of what happened in June. . . .

    We were on our class trip, an annual 18-day educational trip to Greece and Italy for rising seniors, in early June, and the bus had made a stop at a beach in Greece, just for 15-20 minutes or so, and we all went out to the beach to stretch our legs and such. We all took our shoes off, even though the beach was covered in nothing but rocks, and the odd sea urchin. Well, he and I, and I don't know how it ended up this way, maybe I was just the only one who answered his call to go explore, but he and I were alone together walking along the shore in one direction and he posed a question to me that at first he almost didn't ask. I could tell that it was going to be personal, perhaps a sensitive subject, so I gave him some gentle encouragement before he finally decided to come out with it. INFJ confidante/counselor that I am, of course I was willing to listen and help as best I could. I gave him the best answer I could at the time, but I'm horrible at speaking extemporaneously, so I didn't say nearly as much as I could have. In August, it was still bothering me that I hadn't given him a detailed-enough (in my opinion) answer, so I sent him a really long e-mail (quoted below for your convenience) with a better, more explained answer. You can tell what his question was from my response.

    What I need to know is . . . do I give up, even though I can see how things could go perfectly between us, or do I keep trying, even though my foresight of a perfect future means that there's a 99% chance that perfect future isn't going to happen? I've tried giving up on him already, but I can't stop myself from reacting the way I do when he's around. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just desperate and my subconscious keeps picking out good guys who I know would be good for me and treat me well, etc., or if my affection is pure and genuine. These words from the Frozen outtake song "More Than Just the Spare" well summarize my feelings: "If only all this feeling I have in my heart/Could mean something to someone/How I'd love to play that part. . . . So maybe I don't have a magic touch/And maybe I don't ave a talent, as such,/Just this heart with much too much to share." I want to mean something to someone, someone who is good, someone who I trust and who I know well. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to flirt, and maybe it's because I'm not sufficiently posing myself as being receptive of his potential attentions, and maybe it's because I'm far too pre-occupied with stressful things to be doing this right, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere with him. Do I keep trying? If so, how can I give him a subtle hint at my feelings without exposing myself to a blunt and painful rejection? Do I give up? If so, how do I move on and make myself stop smiling like a fool whenever he's around? (I can't help but smile whenever he's around. *sigh*)

    Here's that e-mail I promised:
    I have never been good at speaking extemporaneously, and I always look back and think of how much more I could have said and how much better I could have said it. At the time when you asked me your question back on Grand Tour, when we stopped at the beach on the Gulf of Corinth, I did not get to say all that I felt I ought to have, all that I wanted to say. So, I am writing this explanation out as a supplement and explanation to what I said then.

    You proposed to me the question of what to do when you know with your head that you are "well loved and all," but do not feel it in your heart. (I've put the question in terms of head or heart to make things clearer and easier for me to explain.) To accept a fact as truth and to know/feel its truth are two different things. Before Grand Tour, people would tell us how beautiful the mountains are in Greece and how beautiful the Italian countryside is. We knew it with our heads then. Now that we've been to Greece and Italy and seen those things for ourselves, we know with our hearts how very true those statements are. We would not be so convicted about the veracity of the statement, "The mountains in Greece are beautiful," if we had not experienced them for ourselves. Experience is what transmutes head knowledge to heart knowledge, so to speak.

    When one knows in their head that one is loved by their friends and family but do not know it with their heart, it is also a matter of experience. Perspective is something that also plays a role in this, however. Our perspective, the way we intake and analyze our surroundings and circumstances, is the set of colored lenses tinting our world. Perspective is like happiness in that our perspective is our own choice, but we often let it be dictated by circumstances. To control our perspective, and our own happiness, despite our circumstances, is what the Stoics promoted. Indeed, one's happiness and one's perspective are interdependent upon each other. But, I digress.

    When we lack the feeling of being loved and appreciated, we often fall into a certain mindset, or perspective, which only serves to prolong and intensify the feeling of loneliness. Giving in to this mindset leads to social withdrawal, self-made isolation, spiritual degeneracy, and, inevitably, depression. I have listed the effects in the order that they occur. Choosing not to participate in conversations, not to speak when there are others around, is the first thing that we are tempted to do. Rather than try to recover from all of those things listed above, it is far better to prevent the downward spiral at its initiation. When the feeling of depreciation, neglect, loneliness (whichever way it manifests itself) begins, it is best to seek out company, to put yourself in a group of close friends, those you know to be good people and whom you trust. As has happened to me on occasion, sometimes the topic of conversation comes around to something where a friend compliments you or just says something that is very uplifting and gives us enough of a high to be motivated to participate socially, which is the experience needed to transmute our head knowledge into heart knowledge once more. It won't always be the first conversation, and it might take several conversations/efforts until the desired result is achieved, but it is a good start and the best immediate "treatment" for when this happens.

    My own experience with these sorts of problems are what have given me the knowledge to know how to answer your question. After all, hindsight is 20/20 and we tend to learn from our mistakes after we make them, not before we do. Thank you for trusting me enough to ask about this, because I would have hated seeing you slip into the downward spiral and lose yourself, then try to struggle your way out. Its not easy, especially when there's nobody there to help. Like I said, isolating yourself and withdrawing from people is how it all starts, and it's possibly the worst thing to do. It removes you from those who would help you and it creates an emotional/psychological environment that allows feelings of loneliness, inferiority, bitterness, and the like to fester and dominate your mind. Now that I've (finally) clawed my way out of the spiral, I know better, and I do my best to stay out of it. Some days are better than others, of course.

    I have realized that when I explain emotional/mental/psychological/spiritual processes, like this one, I tend to explain it either in a highly scientific, precise way, or in a flowery, poetic way, and sometimes one or the other of these causes confusion instead of clarity. If I haven't been clear, please let me know and I can try to rephrase things and explain them in a different way so that it makes more sense to you. I hope your last week of summer is an enjoyable one and that things are going well with you. I'll be seeing you when the school-year starts up again.

    ****** ******

  2. #2
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainheart View Post
    Can I just say first that I am so jealous of your writing style? Seriously, it's beautiful, I feel like I'm reading The Great Gatsby. Anyways, look for some common body language signs of attraction. He might:
    fiddle with his shirt
    touch his hair
    stroke his face
    sit/stand pointed to you most of the time
    try to impress you (Does he look at you when he makes a joke?)
    try to keep the conversation going (especially by talking about his achievements)
    subtilely comment about liking you ("Oh my god I love you 'hahaha'")

    But do remember that simply conversing with you about very personal things does not directly constitute his attraction. He is probably very interested to hear anybody's story.

    I don't know if he likes you- I can't tell you that, because I don't know what he says, nor do I know how he says his words to you, or how he acts around you. However, if you want to increase his attraction for you as well as hint at your own, you can try the following things:

    -Relating to him, making you seem similar to himself (do this through interests, but only if you genuinely have those things in common, which you do)
    -Laugh at his jokes
    -Wear red (this is legitimately the most attractive type of clothing to men, second to soft looking clothing)
    -Play with your hair sometimes or do the shaky thing with it
    -Make sure he at least thinks that he's the one chasing you (I don't know about other ENFPs but I like a little bit of a chase)
    -Act like you like him and he's entertaining, but also like you could survive if he didn't like you back. Give him space when you intuit it
    -Try flirting (or even just being friendly and good humored) every now and then with guys you'll never see again, guys at restaurants or random shops. It'll give you an air of confidence when you're around your crush
    -Without saying you like him, compliment him in other ways- "You're a really funny guy" "You're a really good person" "It's so easy to talk to you"

    When the time is right, if he likes you back, things should happen naturally. Don't force them though, and don't directly tell him you like him. Make it something where the two of you go out together a few times, and after awhile, he holds your hand.

  3. #3

    Here's the thing about ENFP guys. We are cowards when it comes to conflict. A blunt and painful rejection is probably one of the last things you would get from an ENFP, and not something to worry about.

    I say your best course of action is to just tell him you like him. He'll probably have to think long and hard on how to respond, and will probably tell you something along those lines. But you will be able to tell where you stand right away, especially since you're an INFJ. If he acts genuinely interested or surprised, then he's going to seriously consider a relationship. If he acts like a deer caught in headlights, then he doesn't like you in that way. But that's not a bad thing, because then you know exactly where you stand and don't have to stress out about it. Also ENFPs aren't the kind of people to stop being your friend just because you have a crush on them.
    The Producer, Rainheart, Ethanol and 2 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainheart View Post
    Your youth is shining through here.

    Don't live up to the saying - "Youth is wasted on the young"

    I'll tell you how. Stop thinking about rejection. It will become meaningless to you very soon. I a short number of years you might never talk to this person again, because that's part of the phases of life.

    Just don't make an ass of yourself by being overly emotional or philosophical. Causally tell him you like him. Let him react with affirmation or not. The only risk is that it might make your friendship weird if he doesn't feel the same. But even that is recoverable in a month or two.

    Good luck.
    AdroElectro, lookoutkid, skalea and 1 others thanked this post.

  6. #5
    INFJ - The Protectors

    @Starbuckskat ~

    Thank you so much. *blush* I'm flattered by your compliment, and it's really affirming when people aside from my close friends compliment my writing. :)

    As far as body language signals, I'm one step ahead of you there; several years ago, out of pure curiosity, I did a lot of research to learn about body language, and I've been trying to apply my knowledge of it when observing him, but I can't seem to pin down any sign that couldn't be reasonably explained away by something else. Yes, he faces me fully when we're having a conversation, but he does that with everybody, just because he's really polite and good at making conversation. Of course, I never stop looking for those signs, but I fear that they won't be forthcoming.

    Well, it's not hard to laugh at his jokes; he IS really funny. Do I wear red even if it's a color that doesn't really look good on me? How do I make sure that he thinks he's the one chasing me?

    I would like it if things happened naturally, but I guess if I keep my flint in one drawer and the steel in the other, I'll never get much of a spark. Trying to encourage affection and create opportunities for it is difficult, especially when trying to make it seem like it's all his idea, like he's doing all the pursuing. If we were to "go out" (as friends) to do something, like go to an art museum, would it be best if I/we invite a few (2 or 3) friends to go along with us, or should it just be the two of us? Although it happens easily enough for the two of us to break off from a group, engaged in our own conversation, I'm wondering if it would be more or less detrimental for others to be present.


    I'm not afraid of him give me a blunt and painful rejection; quite the opposite: I'm afraid that he'll be a perfect gentleman about rejecting me, and do it in the nicest way possible. This would be far worse. If he did give me a blunt rejection, I could say to myself, "Well, that was rude. If that's how he turns a girl down, then he's a jerk and I don't want to be with that kind of guy anyways." It would be easier to move on if that were the case. But if he does what I feel certain he'll do, which is to be as nice as possible about turning me down, it'll be that much more painful, because I se that even when he has to deliver bad news and say something that'll really hurt somebody, he's able to do it so well, so kindly, so respectfully, and it'll only confirm in my mind just how much he's the right kind of man for me, making it harder for me to move on and making the rejection itself infinitely painful.

    If he really needs time like that, then would it not be better for me to just e-mail him? The e-mail would end up being long, of course, but at least I wouldn't be tripping over my own tongue and battling my nerves trying to communicate what I have to say to him. I could e-mail him early Friday afternoon, as soon as possible after we get out of school, and then he'd have the whole weekend to think about it without seeing me at school and things being awkward. I could even add in the e-mail a plea for him to respond no later than Sunday evening so that I could have the issue resolved before I had to face him again.


    I'm INFJ, with very strong Fe. I can't help but be emotional. And even if I don't burst out crying right then and there, even if I keep my cool, he'll be able to tell that I'm just not the same after something like that. I won't make eye contact with him anymore, not if I can help it. I'd avoid him, to avoid the reminder of what had happened. Maybe I would be able to get over it after a few years, but what about during that time? How can I stop thinking of rejection? It means so much if I'm rejected. If He, if not even He, wonderful as he is, is not attracted to me at all in that way, then who would be? My self-esteem is already so low, I don't know how I'd recover from something like that . . .

  7. #6
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainheart View Post
    I'm INFJ, with very strong Fe. I can't help but be emotional. And even if I don't burst out crying right then and there, even if I keep my cool, he'll be able to tell that I'm just not the same after something like that. I won't make eye contact with him anymore, not if I can help it. I'd avoid him, to avoid the reminder of what had happened. Maybe I would be able to get over it after a few years, but what about during that time? How can I stop thinking of rejection? It means so much if I'm rejected. If He, if not even He, wonderful as he is, is not attracted to me at all in that way, then who would be? My self-esteem is already so low, I don't know how I'd recover from something like that . . .
    *shakes head* Youth is wasted on the young. . .

    Being a senior in high school and interested in someone is embarrassing. Being a freshman in college and interested in someone is just another day on campus. Why must you re-live the mistakes that we have made?

    You are projecting your anima/animus all over this poor young man. Their is a saying "The first cut is the deepest." This is because the infatuations of the young and the first loves are strong projections of one's own anima/animus. It is terrible pain to have one's own archetype disappoint you, turn away from you, betray you. In time when the sadness, anger, and disillusionment fade; you realize the person was just human. But the first love will always remain the anima, long after.

    Your description says a great deal about you. And though it is not untypical of many people, it is an issue that needs a great deal of attention. First you have to admit to yourself you have a self-esteem issue and then you need to start working on it - actively. The reality is you will have to develop self-esteem to operate in the world as an adult, so it will happen. But the sooner you break the shackles of self shame the richer your life will be. I promise that you will learn how, I just recommend you learn faster. Now I don't know what you tell yourself, (my noise is crooked, I'm ugly, I'm fat, I don't have breasts, my parents hate me, I'm jealous of my friends, no one likes me, my breath smells). The reality is that everyone has different problems and they all suck. Very few people have everything good. A few people have it too good - just to make sure that life can never be fair. But over time, life not being fair becomes old news and then it moves on to living a rich life with people you care about. You will find someone. Have faith in that, and don't feel bad for yourself.

    Lastly, try not to use the opposite sex as a support to your emotional well being. This is destined to failure. People, even of the best intentions, are terribly flawed.
    AdroElectro, Sedem, skalea and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #7
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Now I just wanna give up for good . . . :'( I know I've got a self-esteem issue; I don't like myself very much at all, but it's not like I have the option of being anybody else. I just thought that maybe . . . maybe if somebody else liked me, then I could learn to like me too.

  9. #8
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainheart View Post
    I could e-mail him
    I know it's 2015, I looked out my window - but don't e-mail him, damn it.

    Just tell him you're interested in him. Say, "hey, I'm interested in you. What do you think about that?" Don't turn it into a huge life moment, that way if he doesn't feel the same way it's no big deal. IF HE IS INTERESTED. . . then be a poet, everything is gravy.
    AdroElectro and Rainheart thanked this post.

  10. #9
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainheart View Post
    Now I just wanna give up for good . . . :'( I know I've got a self-esteem issue; I don't like myself very much at all, but it's not like I have the option of being anybody else. I just thought that maybe . . . maybe if somebody else liked me, then I could learn to like me too.
    I can not counter this way of thinking. Life will just have to beat it out of you. You will look out for yourself more than anyone else will look out for you. You're the hero. That's the only one coming.
    Rainheart and AdroElectro thanked this post.

  11. #10


    I would keep pursuing him hun!
    Don't worry about how he might perceive you because it sounds like he's a kindhearted person who will take your feelings into serious consideration. The key is to be yourself. That's what he's going to appreciate more than anything. Obviously that's easier said than done at times but I promise that, if he's the right guy, he's going to love you for who you are
    ENFPs don't give up on people easily and we're always willing to invest ourselves into others
    Chances are, he wants you to like him just as much as you want him to like you
    Anyway, I think that things will go great if you continue to interact with him. I hope this helps :)
    Rainheart and Starbuckskat thanked this post.

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