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This is a discussion on Enneagram Theorists and Authors within the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; I like Maitri and I like Naranjo. Haven't read too much from others tbh. Not necessarily sold on the spiritual ...

  1. #11
    Type 2w1

    I like Maitri and I like Naranjo. Haven't read too much from others tbh.
    Not necessarily sold on the spiritual stuff but Maitri's descriptions of the types seem the most real and understandable, and Naranjo also describes types in a way that makes sense...

    Beatrice Chestnut tends to irritate me but I'm not sure why. Riso Hudson falls flat for me.

    I should read more, for sure.

    edit: Oh, I like how specific Tom Condon can be. But I'm never sure if I agree with everything he says.
    Brains and StarryNiTe thanked this post.

  2. #12
    Type 8w7

    The authors I find to be most on point are Riso & Hudson (moreso in Wisdom than on Personality Types - a part of it is just writing style) and Naranjo on Character & Neurosis. Both books just seem to find that click, they manage to hone in on what the type is about which makes understanding the rest natural. They also seem to describe real people. Naranjo especially is amazing in that he doesn't waffle on about types being most this or having huge impact - he just focuses on their nature and what kind of character they have.

    Maitri I haven't read. Palmer and Chestnut I don't like overall, Palmer's descriptions have something extreme to them I can't quite pin down that annoys me, and Chestnut I just can't see real people in. It feels more like taking ideas and riffing on them without checking if they actually hold up to reality. Her misidentification section is, surprisingly, really excellent. Palmer's books also have some very interesting tidbits in them that you don't see in most descriptions that click and make sense in terms of actual people.

    Condon I haven't read proper books from, but what I've seen on The Changeworks is refreshingly down to earth and ordinary instead of the usual extreme fare. Also appreciate how he treats personality for what it is - the easy in your harness vs. stuck kind of model instead of us being fallenbroken is great. Mario Sikora is much the same, practical, grounded, this is what people think and do, no I resonate with this metaphysical idea so I am this etc. Again things that seem to mostly be on point and born from observing ordinary people.

    Tritype booklet is trash, Fauvres' descriptions at Enneagram.net surprisingly good.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Brains View Post
    Palmer's descriptions have something extreme to them I can't quite pin down that annoys me
    With Palmer's descriptions of the types it's like she makes each type a caricature of itself. For me, it's hard to take them seriously though the exaggeration helps me to pin down the outer edges of the limits of each type which can come up in the office with the clients that come in and out who I only really interact with maybe half of the time. I wonder if that's what it is about her descriptions that annoys you?

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  5. #14
    Type 8w7

    Quote Originally Posted by brightflashes View Post
    With Palmer's descriptions of the types it's like she makes each type a caricature of itself. For me, it's hard to take them seriously though the exaggeration helps me to pin down the outer edges of the limits of each type which can come up in the office with the clients that come in and out who I only really interact with maybe half of the time. I wonder if that's what it is about her descriptions that annoys you?
    Yea. The 8 description is another annoyance. Hers is one of the justice justice justice ones which just doesn't feel right - Naranjo, R&H, Condon all play moreso the angle of needing to prevail over adversity and be solid which I think is much closer to how real people are. It's inordinate in how often it is mentioned especially if the text is to show how people think - as R&H note (shoutouts to misidentification sections again containing centrally important nuggets of awesomeness):

    In Eights, justice is more of a visceral response, a reaction to witnessing injustices occurring. Eights, generally speaking, do not walk around thinking about these matters... For Eights, justice has little to do with abstract principles... Eights are more likely to seek justice for "their people"–their family, friends, co-workers, ethnic group, and so forth. It is usually expressed in a concern that those in their care (or under their power and authority) be treated fairly.
    Words such as fairness and caring work tonally much, much better than a word like justice, which is often the first thing noted in an 8 description. Why, I don't know.
    StarryNiTe thanked this post.

  6. #15
    Type 9w8

    I most commonly refer to Almaas, Maitri and Palmer, in that order.

    Facets of Unity by Almaas covers the holy ideas which I believe gives the best glimpse of someone's core motivations.

    Maitri brings some other authors into her works like Ichazo and Naranjo, as much as I dislike spirituality, I like how she ties together different elements. There's a whimsical element to her writing style which can be polarising, personally, I like it.

    Palmer is straight forward, a reference book. She's easy to read yet still get's below the surface imo. As a 6 I believe she covers off the 369 types best.


    Riso & Hudson appear especially popular with E5s, I believe Hudson is a 5 so that could be why, as an E9 I find their understanding of my type misses the mark, it doesn't get past the surface in a way that shows genuine understanding despite how much research they've done.
    Figure thanked this post.

  7. #16

    What have you guys found as the best resource (online or in a book) for typing others? I realize this might be a matter of attitude as I have previously explored Enneagram with myself only in mind. I get that as I read resources with others in mind, my mind may be opened to that. I was just wondering if one is better than the others?

  8. #17
    Type 5w4

    As of right now, I find Sigmund Freud to be the best source on theories to understand the enneagram.

    After him I think, Naranjo and Riso/Hudson are the ones that clarified the most for me.
    @timeless articles are nice and also serves as a good explaination why Freud is so central to the enneagram.

  9. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Typology Jesus View Post
    As of right now, I find Sigmund Freud to be the best source on theories to understand the enneagram.

    After him I think, Naranjo and Riso/Hudson are the ones that clarified the most for me.
    @timeless articles are nice and also serves as a good explaination why Freud is so central to the enneagram.
    How interesting - someone else who actually finds value in Freud! I agree with Freud, but only to a certain extent. I wouldn't expect it would be a problem for you, but one would need some critical thinking skills to fully appreciate his work. Thanks for the recommendation.
    Inveniet thanked this post.

  10. #19
    Type 5w4

    Quote Originally Posted by brightflashes View Post
    How interesting - someone else who actually finds value in Freud! I agree with Freud, but only to a certain extent. I wouldn't expect it would be a problem for you, but one would need some critical thinking skills to fully appreciate his work. Thanks for the recommendation.
    Peoples problem with authors like Freud is that they don't keep their warnings and reservations in mind.
    I'd say that one has to read Freud, with his reservations in mind, compare him to others in his field,
    and what we actually know today.
    No small feat from a critical thinking point of view.
    However my goal in reading Freud is not about expanding the field, nor being absolutely right.
    It is enough that I get a conceptual clarity that is beyond what most others have.
    Cause then I can get paid by virtue of my higher and clearer view of the topic.

    Some examples of Freuds reservations, I'm sure his style is familiar.

    "In the total lack of an orienting drive teaching (from other fields)
    it is admissible or rather necessary in the beginning to test and rigidly follow
    the assumptions made, until they either fail or prove to be right."
    Sigmund Freud, About the introduction of the term narcissism 1914 (My translation from danish)
    ...since we cannot wait for another science to give us the drive teachings terms,
    it is much more fruitful to try to see what light a synthesis of the psychic phenomena
    can throw over these fundamental biological riddles. Let us make ourself comfortable
    with the possibility of being wrong, but let us not abstain from rigidly following
    the first chosen assumption about a contradtiction between the I and the sexualdrive,
    that has been pushed upon us from the analysis of the transferneurosises,
    to see, if it is possible to evolve it fruitfully without objection,
    and if it also will lend itself to other affections, like schizofrenia."
    Sigmund Freud, About the introduction of the term narcissism 1914 (My translation from danish)
    Last edited by Inveniet; 06-19-2017 at 08:39 AM.

  11. #20

    Two distinctions I make on the different authors:

    1. What type do they identify with. I want to read about the type they identify with because I would think they know that type first-hand and can offer an insiders viewpoint. The other types they only know second-hand so that only offers an outsiders viewpoint.

    2. Each author has his or her own angle that they approach the types from. Here's a brief sample of what immediately comes to mind.
    • Naranjo (type 5) - comes at it from personality trait structures in one sense, psychiatry in another, deficiency motivation in another, as well as some other angles.
    • Riso (type 4) - he worked out his understanding of the Enneagram types originally by researching some notes on the types so a lot of his work is original and unique to him, he then tied much of it back to the mainstream community when that community came to be in the mid 1990s, only author to explore all four triadic sets on the symbol and create detailed levels of development or health. Russ Hudson (type 5) joined Riso after Riso's initial work.
    • Palmer (type 6) - began describing her approach as the "oral tradition" later changed to the "narrative tradition", a lot of emphasis on panels where you learn about the types from hearing about the type from someone who's living it, also an "intuitive" with a focus on where the attention goes. Worked closely with David Daniels (sx 6).
    • Condon (type 6)- comes at it from Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) which has roots in hypnosis (trance states), NLP is also much concerned with how individuals represent their reality internally, not so much about theory but shifting people's representation of reality in subtle ways, has spent a lot of effort typing famous people, movie characters, and such.
    • Maitri, Almaas (types 2 and 5) - participated in Naranjo's early SAT (Seekers After Truth) groups when Naranjo first began working with and expanding upon Ichazo's Enneagram material (proto-analysis), both are part of the Ridhwan School teaching the Diamond Approach of which the Enneagram types are a small part.
    • Katherine and David Fauvre (types 8 and 4) - went through training with a number of authors above, developed Tritype from Ichazo's trifix and have a trademark for exclusive use of Tritype (other authors don't teach Tritype), produced some TV episodes about the Enneagram on YouTube, matches words and images to each type through their research and work with types.
    • Lapid-Bogda (type 2) - mainly applies the Enneagram types in the business world, work environment, coaching.
    • Rohr (type 1) - Franciscan friar/ordained priest, early author of the Enneagram types, comes from Christian angle.
    • Chestnut (type 2) - authored only book that fully describes Naranjo's instinctual subtypes.
    • Other authors with their types include: Hurley and Donson (types 3 and 4), Wagner (type 5), Sheppard (type 7), Jaxon-Bear (type 8), Wagele (type 5), Pearce (type 9)


    The above seems to be a good sample of the different angles various authors approach the Enneagram types from. There are a lot of buzzwords in the descriptions you can search for in Google and such to get more info.

    I generally don't read about the Enneagram anymore because most of it is just a rehash of earlier material. The last book I read was Chestnut's book on the instinctual subtypes because that's the only source I've found to get a complete take on Naranjo's subtypes.

    In the past I had favorite authors for various reasons.

    Naranjo because he began this whole thing. I wanted to get the info from the source and avoid all the 2nd hand interpretations. I would have read more by Ichazo (the source for Naranjo) but simply couldn't find much that was clear and straight-forward.

    Condon because I wanted to know the actual experience of the type (their internal reality) and not some outsiders interpretations of what's going on. Offered some insight into that but not as much as I'd hoped for.

    Riso because when I first began learning about the Enneagram he had the most books out on the Enneagram and wrote in an organized and clear manner. I had to unlearn a lot of what I learned from his early books though because they didn't always align with other authors. He later revised those books and his thinking as the community came together.
    Last edited by enneathusiast; 06-19-2017 at 08:52 AM. Reason: added favorites
    periwinklepromise and StarryNiTe thanked this post.


     
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