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This is a discussion on Enneagram interaction videos within the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; Originally Posted by jendragon Not politically correct, @ Lady Lullaby , diplomatic :) 9 is my 2ndary in my tritype. ...

  1. #31
    Type 2w1


    Quote Originally Posted by jendragon View Post
    Not politically correct, @Lady Lullaby, diplomatic :) 9 is my 2ndary in my tritype. I loathe conflict, except for conflict on behalf of truth (head type, ha ha).

    Also loved your guys' discussion of Ni being future-focused. I think Ne is more eternal--does that seem right to you?
    Interesting distinction. I went and looked up 'politically correct' to see if I'd meant something different:
    behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts
    and diplomatic:
    Having or showing an ability to deal with people in a sensitive and effective way. Synonyms - tactful
    I find that I meant both - - the type 9's I know or what I've understood of 9 so far seems to exemplify a skill at both. I find I am usually similar in my approach to avoiding conflict and my exception is also based on behalf of truth (but it is more subjective as a heart type! )


    I think he had given this topic much more thought than I have to this point. Except to say that I resonated with his ideas that Ni sees time as one long stretch of vision, not necessarily pinpointed by time. But I personally do find my thoughts more future oriented than many other people in my life. Although, I am also very much in touch with my past and it is always a part of the pattern-finding and future-projecting. So I guess the jury is still out for me. I can see why you would think of Ne as more eternal because it is always happening - there are eternal possibilities etc. I think in the way that Ne is possibilities focused, it too is more future focused (what could be) than say Se which is more present/now minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    I think it was the other way around, at that. Ne is objective, hence takes what exists in the now and projects it into what it could be, so it gives various options for how things could evolve, branching out. Ni is subjective, filling in the holes between what exists, finding dynamics and metaperspective.. kind of "eternal" in the sense that it technically has little to do with time. Ni standpoints, as I see them, just exist.

    I have more to add to this, probably later. How Se/Ni and Ne/Si work together as pairs is interesting to me.
    Haha - we're kind of on the same wavelength on this I guess. I look forward to reading your other thoughts on the matter.
    jendragon thanked this post.

  2. #32
    Type 2w3

    I guess from my Ne-dom perspective, future-minded would be a misnomer, because I'm always-minded. Ne does look at the object at hand, but from it spins infinite possible universes that cover how it could have come to pass, what may still lie beneath, and what it could possibly do in the future, all at the same time. The future is not pre-eminant over past and present possibilities.

    In my case, being Ti-aux, these are discrete universes with nexus points and calculable probabilities--at least, they seem like they should be calculable. I believe in Hari Seldon :)

  3. #33
    Type 5w6

    Quote Originally Posted by jendragon View Post
    I guess from my Ne-dom perspective, future-minded would be a misnomer, because I'm always-minded. Ne does look at the object at hand, but from it spins infinite possible universes that cover how it could have come to pass,
    That particular part - how would you attribute it to Ne?
    jendragon thanked this post.

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  5. #34
    Type 2w3

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    That particular part - how would you attribute it to Ne?
    Because it's not about the thing itself, but about the hidden causes and pathways and motivators that cause the thing, which is very much N, and about generating infinite possibilities, which is very much e. My inferior Si helps supply me with past context and present details...when and only when my Ne is sufficiently interested, of course. If I'm not interested, I have incredibly crappy observational and recall skills.
    Lady Lullaby thanked this post.

  6. #35
    Type 5w6

    Quote Originally Posted by jendragon View Post
    Because it's not about the thing itself, but about the hidden causes and pathways and motivators that cause the thing, which is very much N, and about generating infinite possibilities, which is very much e.
    Though I don't have your mental experience, I will try speaking from my understanding of the ENTP functional set.

    Finding hidden causes, (past) pathways and motivators is something I'd more easily attribute to Ti/Fe and Si, than Ne. Ne is just perception, it gives you snapshot possibilities of what could happen with something that exists. Si contributes knowledge of what you have experienced, personalized sense perception; Fe contributes the vision of how things in the external world relate/interact (often pointed at people, but not necessarily imo); Ti contributes to your ability to understand the differentiation/systemization of these elements. So, a basis for understanding how a thing could have occurred in the first place (Ti+), what pathways could have led up to it (Si/Ti), and what could have motivated it (Fe+).

    Generating infinite possibilities IS more like Ne. When I said branching out, I didn't mean just up/out like a tree, I mean I think that Ne branches into any possibility from the object. And as your primary process, it probably provides the shape for all of what happens above, so that you might perceive it to be a product of N(e). But by "future oriented", I mean, if you take it in isolation with Si and eliminate the influence of Ti/Fe or Fi/Te, it essentially builds on Si product to display possibilities for what something could be/become in snapshots. You can imagine that something could change in a pastward direction, to your mind's content, but what exists now (Si/e) can only be changed in the future (Ne). While Ni extracts, from what exists (Se), the (personally judged) likely dynamics behind its being, which can be action in any direction, future/past/implication/etc. depending on what the person sees.

  7. #36
    Type 2w3

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    When I said branching out, I didn't mean just up/out like a tree, I mean I think that Ne branches into any possibility from the object.
    Exactly. Any possibility, in my experience, includes any possible way that we could have gotten to this point. To mangle a quote from Alice in Wonderland, it's a poor sort of generator that only works forwards :)

    To give you an illustration, while I love Sherlock Holmes, in all his incarnations, in every incarnation I've been bothered by his certain pronouncements of who did what and why. I can always think of at least three other possibilities that are at least somewhat likely, and feel that he was premature to rule them out.

    Now, my judgments of how likely they are are governed by Ti and Fe, for sure. Psychological motivation and statistical likelihood jump in happily to assign favorite status to a few top options, and I'm sure my Ne dips into both if I consciously decide to brainstorm. But I've had those instantaneous, lightning-bolt epiphanies about past, present and future connections alike. Specific examples include word origins (AHA!!!!!!!! Flasche is the modern German decedent of the same Old English root that brought us flask! The original meaning could have been any bottle, a bottle for drink, a bottle with a cap, any container of liquid...) and subtext interpretation (when he said "I was delayed", he was thinking of what happened to him, the blame it puts on someone else, whether Frodo would be helped or hurt by this information and how that would sound more like an excuse than a reason, despite its actual legitimacy, I've felt that disjointed chord before, yay, I'm becoming like Gandalf!), just to name a few.

    Does that make sense?

  8. #37
    Type 5w6

    Quote Originally Posted by jendragon View Post
    Exactly. Any possibility, in my experience, includes any possible way that we could have gotten to this point. To mangle a quote from Alice in Wonderland, it's a poor sort of generator that only works forwards :)

    To give you an illustration, while I love Sherlock Holmes, in all his incarnations, in every incarnation I've been bothered by his certain pronouncements of who did what and why. I can always think of at least three other possibilities that are at least somewhat likely, and feel that he was premature to rule them out.
    I have Holmes typed as an ISTP in my mind, and it seems fitting that you'd have that issue. Se/Ni vs. Ne/Si.

    Now, my judgments of how likely they are are governed by Ti and Fe, for sure. Psychological motivation and statistical likelihood jump in happily to assign favorite status to a few top options, and I'm sure my Ne dips into both if I consciously decide to brainstorm. But I've had those instantaneous, lightning-bolt epiphanies about past, present and future connections alike. Specific examples include word origins (AHA!!!!!!!! Flasche is the modern German decedent of the same Old English root that brought us flask! The original meaning could have been any bottle, a bottle for drink, a bottle with a cap, any container of liquid...) and subtext interpretation (when he said "I was delayed", he was thinking of what happened to him, the blame it puts on someone else, whether Frodo would be helped or hurt by this information and how that would sound more like an excuse than a reason, despite its actual legitimacy, I've felt that disjointed chord before, yay, I'm becoming like Gandalf!), just to name a few.

    Does that make sense?
    Makes sense indeed.

    Would you like to do one of these videos at some point?

  9. #38
    Type 2w3

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    Would you like to do one of these videos at some point?
    Why yes, yes I would :) Enneagram, cognitive function, MBTi, or mix-n-match? (I vote for mix-n-match, 'cause I love cognitive functions, but I'd love to learn more about the enneagram, which it seems you probably know more about than I do. I could put it on my YouTube series, the Socratic Forum, and then we could link it up here and there. Right, PMing you for specifics...

  10. #39
    Type 2w3

    So, at long last, here is the above-advertised discussion! (The part we recorded, anyway :) Hard to stop that Ne-Ni theoretical discussion!)



    Lady Lullaby thanked this post.

  11. #40
    Type 8w9

    Quote Originally Posted by jendragon View Post
    Not politically correct, @Lady Lullaby, diplomatic :) 9 is my 2ndary in my tritype. I loathe conflict, except for conflict on behalf of truth (head type, ha ha).

    Also loved your guys' discussion of Ni being future-focused. I think Ne is more eternal--does that seem right to you?
    I know what you mean with Ne being eternal because Ne is like magic. Ne just makes everything seem so much better than it is. It's like a crack pill of sorts.

    I just thought of a song that kind of expresses what I meant actually:
    Flatlander and jendragon thanked this post.


     
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