[ENTJ] Have you considered the fact that you're an ESFP ?? - Page 3

Have you considered the fact that you're an ESFP ??

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This is a discussion on Have you considered the fact that you're an ESFP ?? within the ENTJ Forum - The Executives forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; I honestly think the ESFP MBTI type descriptions are completely biased and off-base. You can blame unhealthy INTJs for that....

  1. #21

    I honestly think the ESFP MBTI type descriptions are completely biased and off-base.

    You can blame unhealthy INTJs for that.

  2. #22

    Ah. Here we go. Here's the way it works. ENTJ/ESFP have/use/value [really don't matter to me what you call it] the same functions.

    I like spitting out vast amounts of information. You'll see me being the person to respond to literally anything and everything with a theoretical answer. It's fancy, and I'll probably do that here a lot.

    I actually don't know what ESFP's perspective is. But yeah, the interesting thing is that if I were to go by socionics, ENFPs liking INTJs would be because

    1. ESFPs are their duals.

    2. ESFPs look like ENFPs. Not even joking. That's the socionics relationship. Lookalike.

    3. ESFPs type as ENFPs.

    INTP/ENTJ thing is similar.

    1. ESFP decides they're right enough times to be logical. Te

    2. ESFP identifies ability to judge personal distance via emotions as Ni.

    3. ESFP decides they're ENTJ.

    INTJ decides Ni is Ti and Te is Ne. Types as INTP.

    Oh, and by the way the test works, you're getting multiple different answers the more you take it. Especially if you're like me and answer it differently, but honestly every time.

    I haven't found an equitable solution, because that'd be a lot of effort convincing people who don't want to be convinced of something they do care about, but don't really agree with. Essentially it'd be arguing semantics.

    I can type myself as ENFP by saying I have an excellent judge of character, and like thinking out loud. Te becomes Ne, and Ni becomes Fi. We know why that's wrong right? The moment an ENFP comes at you with something so formatted, it's either been coached really well, or it's a mistype.

    I specifically threw in the lists, because for a reference, Allport did the same stuff. You'll find a ton of the same type of logic in trait science.

    Also, I can't type as ESFP. I suck super hard at the athletic stuff, so I really can't unless you guys don't associate S with a small natural ability for athletics like I do. See, I can get buff like Arnold, but I will still suck, and break other people's things constantly. I'm the kid who, when fitting a table through a door, will dent/scrape the wall. I am working to improve that. I have my benefits. I can't tell when I'm injured, therefore, I will keep running until the pain is debilitating and I run out of energy. I compensate by making it a study. I'd be that guy to measure out how much water I need to consume based on the effort expended to make sure I don't over drink if I actually cared. My ISTJ brother would be, in that time, doing something physical. Like video games. And yeah, I know how silly that sounds. I play strategy games. He plays sports games. His require an actual ability to react quickly. Mine require ability to pick out points where I can almost guarantee success. We're both probably doing it to improve in our understanding of our equivalent spheres. Which is odd, and not very intuitive to think about. But then you realize, we're both the type to not value fun. We value winning. Te.

    So there's several different styles of an ENTJ writing. You'll find all of this in various form. The last paragraph is when the ENTJ is making it up as he goes by reading the previous input, and then spitting out an answer. It's my weakest form of writing as of yet, so I'd be ENTJ-Te subtype.

    It's all decision logic though. Like, I'm saying if blah? List all the possible answers, often looking them up. Then it can't be blah blah blah or blah. Then blah. Usually, I don't actually list all the answers, and just pick the one to come to mind first, then test it, if it fails, next. I might do four or five at a time, but it's always in order of most likely to least likely, because why would you start with the one that's least likely? Actually, I have an answer on that. Sometimes, I misplace my keys. So how do I search? I look in the most likely places. I often leave them somewhere completely stupid, so I remember that. Then I search in those areas because it's likely for me to leave them in a stupid place. It's horribly ineffective, and I usually just ask someone else if they'd seen them, because I really have no concept of how me leaving my keys somewhere works. I do have photographic memory though, so I can list where they've all been in order of my opinion of it being there.

    1. Living room arm chair. Often on the floor next to it.

    2. Recently, I threw them across to the other side onto the couch. Checked everywhere else. Then asked my mom. [Don't judge me for that, I'm in college, and it saves money living off campus] She's like oh, I saw them on the couch. Example of better tier search ability.

    3. Kitchen counter.

    4. My room. God help us if it's in there.

    5. My nightstand. Subset of my room. Incredibly better odds of me finding it. It's where I uually leave it when going to bed if and only if I'm not tired. When I'm tired, it gets chucked on the ground with my wallet. Glasses go there though, cause they're breakable.

    6. I have a blue IKEA bag I fill with stuff and tote around in my jeep. God help us if it's in there and the IKEA bag is in my room.

    7. Dining room table.

    8. Chairs in the tv room. If it's there, they probably fell out of my pocket into the crease between the chairs. I usually thus am very careful when I'm in there. So the table next to the chair is where I look. On a similar note, I'm usually the guy to find the back of the remote. At least my family is consistent about it.

    Well, there you go. That's an ENTJ talking about himself for about 20 minutes. This was all done with like three or four pauses when I considered whether I would end it early. Also, I can ramble more on the subject.

  3. #23


    I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

    It's those ESFP who take the MBTI test and think they're ENTJ's. They get really energized about how intelligent, competent, and knowledgeable they are, and how successful their ideas are going to be. They vigorously outline details about the plan they have to make money, start a business, and so on, thinking that their goals are bound to happen and be 100% a slam dunk and basically want everyone to know that.

    The Se/Te tranced ESFP's basically have confidence they can do whatever they want because they believe in their knowledge. Because they have the Te, they are receptive to facts and figures that support what they believe they can do. Because they aren't that great at Te and really bad at Ti, they see only the positive facts and figures that support their self belief and figure the rest will sort itself out, or they will make the rules up as they go. Because they are bad at Ni, they fail to recognize in advance the negative scenarios that threaten to counterbalance the positive ones they put all of their ego into thinking about.

    Also, it takes a hefty argument, stubbornness, a bit of meanness, and a lot of persistence to snap an ESFP out of an Se/Te lock. The same is true of ENTJ's in a Te/Se lock (though they more need someone who cares enough about them to warn them that their actions will hurt someone).

    Worth noting, a couple other related things: 1.) a lot of Se/Te-ish ESFP are NOT recognized as ESFP, and 2.) There are Se/Te-centric ESFP who aren't unhealthy. They're just more naturally ambitious and informational; whereas the Fi/Ni ones are more artistic and interested in their relationships with others.

  4. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

    I'm not the only one who has noticed this.
    The way I see the difference between a TeSe and SeTe is that TeSe is a J type and stereo-typically a choleric in control while a SeTe would be P type and stereo-typically a sanguine in control.

    Choleric and Sanguine refers to the "Four Temperaments", an idea from Ancient Greek medicine.

    Are you more choleric or sanguine?
    Last edited by Catandroid; 06-11-2019 at 09:47 AM.

  5. #25
  6. #26
    ENTJ - The Executives

    If I was an ESFP, then judging from the ESFPs I've known, I would find being organized much more difficult, would be more impulsive, and would likely be a lot better with feels.

  7. #27

    I sometimes joke that ENTJs are INTJ and ESFP hybrids minus the introverted feeling.

    I've noticed that with having intuition and sensing in the center of my cognitive stack, that I'm able to humor both the concept of what of things are that I rationally observe (Te/Ni), and how that information can then be used in relation to the experience that I'm having (Te/Se). One minute I'll be debating ideas, then the next minute I'll be debating how those said ideas are not feasible in reality, therefore are simply ideas with no real usefulness.

    I care about ideas just as much as an INTJ, but I also care about being connected to the experience that I'm having (being in the moment) like an ESFP, however what I fail to do successfully is to understand how the information (Te), ideas (Ni), and the experiences that I'm having (Se) are important to me and why they should be valued (inferior Fi).

    It would be really hard for me to question or confuse myself as being an ESFP, because the idea of tossing myself into experiences because I feel a certain way (Se/Fi) seems irrational and reckless to me. I'm only as easy-going as it makes sense to be (dominant Te). I don't mind letting loose and having fun, or even being playful with my experiences, but they will always be checked with what I think needs to happen rationally, and where that will lead me long-term.
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