[ENTJ] Where do families and important connections place in your lives? - Page 2

Where do families and important connections place in your lives?

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This is a discussion on Where do families and important connections place in your lives? within the ENTJ Forum - The Executives forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Battlelina She actually did say that to me. I think it was from the fact I was ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlelina View Post
    She actually did say that to me. I think it was from the fact I was her younger brother's long-term partner, showed up at the family holidays, came with him to visit her and her family, was trying to help better my ex's life and contribute to the family... that kind of thing. So I was like unofficial sister-in-law, not neatly fitting into a friend/casual status.



    Ok, given my close ISTJ friend, this makes sense. I can just tell I will never cross whatever line he has, family is blood only, whereas ENTJs are something of enigmas for me in the sort of pioneering they're willing to do beyond the stereotypical business aspects.



    Hu? How so? ...Wait, are you trolling me? :P

    Actually, tangent, this is a thing I run into a fair bit. I don't pay attention to what is popular or herd mentality, then I go and do a thing. Someone goes, "Wow Battlelina, I thought you were aware and avoiding these things."

    "No? I'm just, like, doing the thing I feel like doing."

    I thank posts when I appreciate that someone responded at all, but I may not necessarily be reading things intently. But if I really like something in particular I will quote it and thank you for that particular thing.

    Otherwise, social stuff has too many heckin' rules, then you got certain group preferences, then individual preferences... ugh. People be complicated. Too complicated. It's why I go play video games.
    I do that, too. It’s acknowledging that I read someone’s response, not saying that I necessarily agree with their viewpoint.

    It’s a “thank” button. I see it not so much as “I agree”, but rather “I heard you”. Being polite. Ugh. Social norms.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by NT the DC View Post
    I wouldn't tell her that within a few months of knowing her, her immediate family feels like extended family to me which makes sense because I've known them for like a decade and they are her family.
    That's fair. Was after a year, and that's still quite a bit less time from yours. It's true that levels of a bond and the time it takes is more individual than anything. This leads me to more questions relevant to this thread, but I suspect would take more openness than folks might be willing to discuss.

    Have you had problems with this sort of lopsided timing, where someone feels closer to you than you do to them? If you have, how have you dealt with it? @MsBossyPants as well and anyone else who might want to answer.

    It's fine if you don't answer. My timing is closer to yours, and that tends to create some tension for awhile where people want me to feel closer waaaaay sooner than I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    I do that, too. It’s acknowledging that I read someone’s response, not saying that I necessarily agree with their viewpoint.

    It’s a “thank” button. I see it not so much as “I agree”, but rather “I heard you”. Being polite. Ugh. Social norms.
    Ohhhh herd mentality is the "being polite" thing. Ok. Got it. Yeah, you right then. I am still figuring out what place that should have in my life. I was raised by a people pleasing ENFJ and she doubled down when I couldn't understand all these social etiquette things. Being polite has its uses, I just think it's gone too much in that direction when people act like their feelings are glass in the face of a little truth. So when someone--and ENTJs tend to do this--show up and start telling the truth, they get my respect.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlelina View Post
    Have you had problems with this sort of lopsided timing, where someone feels closer to you than you do to them? If you have, how have you dealt with it? @MsBossyPants as well and anyone else who might want to answer.

    It's fine if you don't answer. My timing is closer to yours, and that tends to create some tension for awhile where people want me to feel closer waaaaay sooner than I do.
    That's a tough question. I don't really go out of my way to befriend anyone so it's hard to gauge who feels closer to who first. I guess one characteristic that is odd is that I feel closer to many people who I was very close to in the past despite not having much of any contact with them. I have a high school friend and she recently told me she didn't view me as a "friend" which was a little weird to me because I always considered her a friend even if we had rare contact and I hadn't seen her in like 5 years. That is because we do stay in sparse contact and I held her in high regard at one time in my life. Contrast that with new people I meet and it is very acquaintance like for me. New real friendships haven't really come in sometime for me.

    I can really only gauge who feels closer first in romantic relationships. It's hard to say for sure I have had instances where they definitely feel closer to me quicker and I have also had partners that were absolutely uncomfortable saying we were in a relationship when I was like yeah - we are dating weirdo.
    Blue Flower and Battlelina thanked this post.

  4. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlelina View Post
    That's fair. Was after a year, and that's still quite a bit less time from yours. It's true that levels of a bond and the time it takes is more individual than anything. This leads me to more questions relevant to this thread, but I suspect would take more openness than folks might be willing to discuss.

    Have you had problems with this sort of lopsided timing, where someone feels closer to you than you do to them? If you have, how have you dealt with it? @MsBossyPants as well and anyone else who might want to answer.

    It's fine if you don't answer. My timing is closer to yours, and that tends to create some tension for awhile where people want me to feel closer waaaaay sooner than I do.
    I have a big, bold personality that tends to draw people in. I put that down to natural leadership and mentoring skills. While a few people can find it off-putting, mostly I have a sort of Pied Piper effect on people. In real life, I come off as funnier, more easy-going, and less serious-minded than I do here in print. (Hubby describes this as my assertiveness being tempered by my goofy sense of humor.)

    That assertiveness and extroverted willingness to engage people can sometimes lead to misunderstandings. Men sometimes misread my boldness as flirtiness, and with women (mostly Fe-dom and aux) the effect is what you mention here:

    So when someone--and ENTJs tend to do this--show up and start telling the truth, they get my respect.
    —they’re sort of intrigued by my willingness to say what I mean (they would never do that, and sort of look to me for honest feedback.) In both cases, that can lead to their thinking that I have a much deeper interest in them than I do. They assume that because they’re drawn to me, I’m drawn to them on the same level, and sometimes, that isn’t the case — what you phrased as a sort of respect, but it’s them feeling closer to me than I do to them.

    In a work environment where I’m the boss, it forces me to keep things professional. I tend to treat them more as fledglings it’s my responsibility to nurture until they’re ready to fly the nest. So I don’t get too familiar, and on a personal level, keep my distance. They tend to like and respect me, but I don’t let myself get involved with their personal lives. So when they do “fly the next” and move on, they tend to feel sad they’re leaving, and most of the time give me the tearful “your help and support meant so much “ chat. But I feel good pushing them out of the nest because I’m happy for them because it means they’re on to bigger and better things. I’m not sad to see them go. Their leaving means I’ve done my job.

    In my personal life, with friendships or romantic relationships, I’m very selective about who I “let in”. You have to make the cut, and I can assess pretty early on whether or not there is future in our relationship. I think most people tend to not “pull the plug” fast enough and hang in there in romantic relationships or friendships. They sort of wait to see if things are going to change
     
    they’re not going to


    I think those circumstances ^^^ are what you’re alluding to. (they feel closer to me, that I do to them and they are working under the assumption that “I’ll eventually come around”, when the reality is that I’m already gone.) In those circumstances, I tell the truth and say it’s just not working for me.

    Side note: I think the above paragraph is pretty much the answer to every question in the ENTJ Relationship thread. You know ... “I’ve been seeing this ENTJ guy who really seemed attentive at first, but he just won’t open up to me. I know he cares about me, how can I get him to open up?”. Answer: you can’t. He probably doesn’t feel that way about you. If he really felt that way about you, you’d know it. BIG TIME. (when we’re all-in, we’re all-in) If the immature little weasel is stringing you along, he’s doing so until something better shows up. Or he’ll just keep burning you until you catch on and break up with him, so he doesn’t have to be the bad guy and deal with the fall-out of your constant “but, why ...” texts. (yeesh immature ENTJs are the worst) It takes experience and growth to figure out that it doesn’t serve you well to be an asshole about it.

    I’m digressing a bit, but always like to post this bit of advice in threads. The best advice I ever got from my mentor:

    When you’re right and are polite about it, people will remember you were right.
    If you’re right and are an asshole about it, all people will remember is that you were an asshole.

    In business and personal relationships, that ^^^ is the difference between being respected and admired, and being hated and despised.
    Last edited by MsSpookyPants; 05-24-2019 at 07:54 AM. Reason: typos
    Blue Flower and Battlelina thanked this post.

  5. #15

    I waited til the ENTJs had a chance to answer, since I’m (obviously) an INFP. But my husband is ENTJ and we’ve been together a long time, so I just wanted to offer my perspective.

    My husband has no sense of being close to people based on social norms. If you are a relative and he has no respect for you, he will not feel compelled to pretend he is close to you when clearly he is not. Conversely, if he likes a person it does not really matter who that person is. He will be helpful and try to make your life better, if he can.

    Here is one important thing to note, though: NTJs of both types are sort of process-driven, meaning if they feel your project or idea is worthwhile or in their area of expertise, and they can be a real help, and you seem like you could use their help, they might very well sort of take your project on and spend a lot of time and energy on it. This can lead to misunderstandings, as it does not necessarily mean they are terribly fond of you personally. Don’t get me wrong, if they actively dislike you, they won’t help you out unless they are expected to. But, having them take interest in what you are DOING should never be assumed to be a personal affection for you either.

    At least in my experience. There are few types who take such inherent pleasure in a job well done as an ENTJ or INTJ. I have seen my husband put considerable ongoing effort into helping someone with one particular thing and then never really have much to do with them again after that. They do not get attached just by spending time with people, the way other types tend to.
    NT the DC, Battlelina and Lauren Settle thanked this post.

  6. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    In real life, I come off as funnier, more easy-going, and less serious-minded than I do here in print. (Hubby describes this as my assertiveness being tempered by my goofy sense of humor.)
    Most ENTJs I've met have amazing comic delivery, and a way with words in conversation. On text it tends to come out as the classic NTJ dry wit or cynicism more times than not, but there's a certain way ENTJs are in real life that when I'm in the presence of one I'm like, "Ah, I know what kind of personality this one is."

    Online or off, though, ENTJs can be very likeable, taking an edge off of communication that IxTJs struggle with. That's a tangent, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    I’m drawn to them on the same level, and sometimes, that isn’t the case — what you phrased as a sort of respect, but it’s them feeling closer to me than I do to them.
    Alright, this is making sense. They're feeling admiration, not just respect, maybe awe, and then they want to bond. I can't say I've never had that. It's from those experiences that I've learned to watch and observe how the other person works (thus ended up learning about MBTI) so I know if the other person might be interested too or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    But I feel good pushing them out of the nest because I’m happy for them because it means they’re on to bigger and better things. I’m not sad to see them go. Their leaving means I’ve done my job.
    To have someone genuinely happy about another person's happiness is very rare.

    This is really interesting to me. People are not used to this. What you're talking about is a sort of--if you'll excuse the cheese--unconditional love. I can't think of a better set of words. Even though there's not that sort of closeness, you have still invested the time and energy into both the environment and the individual to help them grow to that point.

    For most others in this day and age, this comes with a scoreboard attached. "I did all this for you, now I have a list of things you do for me."

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    I think most people tend to not “pull the plug” fast enough and hang in there in romantic relationships or friendships.
    Definitely agreed here. I appreciate that you wrote more about how younger and/or more immature ENTJs operate in a relationship along these lines. A lot of people aren't willing to be "the bad guy," and their actions are actually making them and things worse. :/

    INTPs are notorious for this too, for being sort of lukewarm and wishy-washy. And then we make ourselves miserable for procrastinating important confrontations and decisions. During more immature times I really wished someone else would take on that inconvenient and difficult emotional labor. Feared failure a lot, or making bad decisions, etc.

    I've become a much happier person by facing my decisions as they arise, looking over my pros and cons and, honestly, taking a more ENTJ approach to handling my circumstances. Even when I've made bad decisions, the world didn't end and I could clean up my mess. Healthy people, at least, are pretty good about accepting apologies and actions to amend bad decisions.

    My mom once had this sign I wish I kept: "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment."

    Quote Originally Posted by MsBossyPants View Post
    When you’re right and are polite about it, people will remember you were right.
    If you’re right and are an asshole about it, all people will remember is that you were an asshole.

    In business and personal relationships, that ^^^ is the difference between being respected and admired, and being hated and despised.
    This is very relevant to a major life event I'm going through right now, so while you had no idea how timely this advice was, I still appreciate it. Will definitely benefit me for the long-term as well. Not very often you can come to a forum and find some priceless knowledge to last a lifetime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flower View Post
    I waited til the ENTJs had a chance to answer, since I’m (obviously) an INFP. But my husband is ENTJ and we’ve been together a long time, so I just wanted to offer my perspective.
    I really appreciate your take on it since something clicked for me. Gave me a bit of insight into the mechanics behind @NTtheDC's cautious nature vs. the mechanics of mine.

    I have an INTJ friend currently, and I've had close INTJ friends in the past. I have ended up befriending them from:

    1: We geek out about a bunch of things and projects we have in common
    2: I listen to them talk about something in passing that they say they want to do
    3: I have skills that I offer to use to help them out

    Here's what I'm thinking: The difference is I'm helping the INTJ. Experience is allowed to be established in a meaningful way for the INTJ. If it's MY project, it's not necessarily meaningful and definitely not personal to the INTJ. Since it's their project, it's a safe way to set up this foundation of experience by my going through different scenarios without the INTJ getting out of his or her comfort zone. If I handle it well, then INTJ and I are on to other projects.

    Depending on the person, at some point in this adventure we become friends. I imagine this might be similar for ENTJs?

    I have different reasons for it, but I also like supporting people in their visions and projects. I have also been misunderstood to be closer to people than I actually am from offering this support.
    MsSpookyPants and Blue Flower thanked this post.

  7. #17

    For several reasons (mainly a firm reluctance to comply with either herd mentality or groupthink) family is not a concept I believe in. As an xNTJ, arbitrarily automatic collectivism is just not something I can relate to. Instead, I assess individual persons based on their individual traits, merits and virtues. Therefore, the fact that I get along well with somebody has nothing to do with shared DNA. In fact, I’m closer to my friends (they have been chosen) than to my relatives (I dislike them). On the other hand, professional networking is a must in order to market one’s own skils.
    Battlelina thanked this post.

  8. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlelina View Post
    I really appreciate your take on it since something clicked for me. Gave me a bit of insight into the mechanics behind @NTtheDC's cautious nature vs. the mechanics of mine.

    I have an INTJ friend currently, and I've had close INTJ friends in the past. I have ended up befriending them from:

    1: We geek out about a bunch of things and projects we have in common
    2: I listen to them talk about something in passing that they say they want to do
    3: I have skills that I offer to use to help them out

    Here's what I'm thinking: The difference is I'm helping the INTJ. Experience is allowed to be established in a meaningful way for the INTJ. If it's MY project, it's not necessarily meaningful and definitely not personal to the INTJ. Since it's their project, it's a safe way to set up this foundation of experience by my going through different scenarios without the INTJ getting out of his or her comfort zone. If I handle it well, then INTJ and I are on to other projects.

    Depending on the person, at some point in this adventure we become friends. I imagine this might be similar for ENTJs?

    I have different reasons for it, but I also like supporting people in their visions and projects. I have also been misunderstood to be closer to people than I actually am from offering this support.
    I went to a house party recently for my gf and her former work friends whom I've never met.
    I was sort of in my head as I interacted with new people because I said well this would be a good time to observe myself and my interactions, who I gel with and such.

    What I noticed is I categorize people and their value to me.

    There was a friendly guy who was essentially the first to come up to us. He was a younger and had left the company, he was venturing out on his own trying to create his own business. I liked his energy and story, we had a good conversation about the anxiety and freedom working for yourself can have.

    His spouse was also there and was less friendly, she gave me a "network" vibe and I didn't talk to her. I got the feeling she was the one that pushing him to go out on his own so she could reap the benefits - she looked materialistic.

    There was a co-worker who my gf has talked to me about. She was nice and friendly we talked about how I was in fact her boyfriend. She had invited me and the gf out previously to meet with her and her bf but it was bad timing so I wasn't able to make it. She seems nice and harmless and a bit silly, like a good friend for my gf.

    There was another co-worker who I have seen videos of, she is actually quite funny and I liked her personality on film. When I met her I was surprised at how uptight she seemed. She seemed nice, just much more introverted then I imagined based on the videos. I had thought we'd click the most and was wrong.

    The co-worker mentioned above had a bf, he and I had a good chat. He was a teacher and mainly directed the conversation about me. Seemed to be an authentic dude though, very wholesome vibe.

    The person who's birthday party it was (the reason we were there) was very shy and passive. My gf had mentioned she was passive aggressive and was her former manager whom she liked as a person but not as a manager. I could see what she was talking about as she seems like a little mouse who was given a leadership role. It was weird because I felt this weird sort of attraction to her because she seemed like someone who needed guidance and to be built up but also called out for passive aggressive bs. I had a hard time figuring out what the hell that was about. Needless to say she reminded me of someone I dated lol. I can't figure out if I had a drive to fix meek people or if I like people who I know I can easily control. Or both. Eek.

    Anyway, the person who I liked most was: The mother of the gal I mentioned above lol. I am currently planting a lot of stuff and her mom had this huge garden and lots of healthy plants. So I basically chatted with her for over half an hour just picking her brain on gardening tips. She was a cool lady who also made some some of the best lemon bars I've ever tasted. The things she taught me are things I've put into action this week.

    In terms of real friendship potential. The first dude has the most potential. He has good energy and is a chill personality. I have a sense he has perspectives I can appreciate. If the mom wasn't from a different generation or two she'd win hands down though haha.

    But that concludes the social experiment. Not sure if that illuminates the thought process of meeting new people. I guess it comes down to energy or what can someone offer but there is also a weird tendency to want to coddle certain personalities.
    Battlelina and Lauren Settle thanked this post.

  9. #19
    INTP

    You wouldn't believe it at a glance--but they are number 1.

    1) Everything that I do is with them in mind.
    2) I do not interact with them much.
    3) I will take extreme measures to try to get something critical fixed!

    That said--I am a computer programmer. I want to take part in competitive and fierce business. I don't want to spend a lot of time with family. I would rather be a proud conservator then a custodial parent. I love the children--I will sit in extravagant dispositions for children. Its just not my identity to want that...

  10. #20

    Family counts as support networks. Give and take.


     
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