This is a discussion on Where do families and important connections place in your lives? within the ENTJ Forum - The Executives forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Battlelina She actually did say that to me. I think it was from the fact I was ...
Have you had problems with this sort of lopsided timing, where someone feels closer to you than you do to them? If you have, how have you dealt with it? @MsBossyPants as well and anyone else who might want to answer.
It's fine if you don't answer. My timing is closer to yours, and that tends to create some tension for awhile where people want me to feel closer waaaaay sooner than I do.
I can really only gauge who feels closer first in romantic relationships. It's hard to say for sure I have had instances where they definitely feel closer to me quicker and I have also had partners that were absolutely uncomfortable saying we were in a relationship when I was like yeah - we are dating weirdo.
That assertiveness and extroverted willingness to engage people can sometimes lead to misunderstandings. Men sometimes misread my boldness as flirtiness, and with women (mostly Fe-dom and aux) the effect is what you mention here:—they’re sort of intrigued by my willingness to say what I mean (they would never do that, and sort of look to me for honest feedback.) In both cases, that can lead to their thinking that I have a much deeper interest in them than I do. They assume that because they’re drawn to me, I’m drawn to them on the same level, and sometimes, that isn’t the case — what you phrased as a sort of respect, but it’s them feeling closer to me than I do to them.So when someone--and ENTJs tend to do this--show up and start telling the truth, they get my respect.
In a work environment where I’m the boss, it forces me to keep things professional. I tend to treat them more as fledglings it’s my responsibility to nurture until they’re ready to fly the nest. So I don’t get too familiar, and on a personal level, keep my distance. They tend to like and respect me, but I don’t let myself get involved with their personal lives. So when they do “fly the next” and move on, they tend to feel sad they’re leaving, and most of the time give me the tearful “your help and support meant so much “ chat. But I feel good pushing them out of the nest because I’m happy for them because it means they’re on to bigger and better things. I’m not sad to see them go. Their leaving means I’ve done my job.
In my personal life, with friendships or romantic relationships, I’m very selective about who I “let in”. You have to make the cut, and I can assess pretty early on whether or not there is future in our relationship. I think most people tend to not “pull the plug” fast enough and hang in there in romantic relationships or friendships. They sort of wait to see if things are going to change
they’re not going to
I think those circumstances ^^^ are what you’re alluding to. (they feel closer to me, that I do to them and they are working under the assumption that “I’ll eventually come around”, when the reality is that I’m already gone.) In those circumstances, I tell the truth and say it’s just not working for me.
Side note: I think the above paragraph is pretty much the answer to every question in the ENTJ Relationship thread. You know ... “I’ve been seeing this ENTJ guy who really seemed attentive at first, but he just won’t open up to me. I know he cares about me, how can I get him to open up?”. Answer: you can’t. He probably doesn’t feel that way about you. If he really felt that way about you, you’d know it. BIG TIME. (when we’re all-in, we’re all-in) If the immature little weasel is stringing you along, he’s doing so until something better shows up. Or he’ll just keep burning you until you catch on and break up with him, so he doesn’t have to be the bad guy and deal with the fall-out of your constant “but, why ...” texts. (yeesh immature ENTJs are the worst) It takes experience and growth to figure out that it doesn’t serve you well to be an asshole about it.
I’m digressing a bit, but always like to post this bit of advice in threads. The best advice I ever got from my mentor:
When you’re right and are polite about it, people will remember you were right.
If you’re right and are an asshole about it, all people will remember is that you were an asshole.
In business and personal relationships, that ^^^ is the difference between being respected and admired, and being hated and despised.
Last edited by MsBossyPants; 05-24-2019 at 08:54 AM. Reason: typos
I waited til the ENTJs had a chance to answer, since I’m (obviously) an INFP. But my husband is ENTJ and we’ve been together a long time, so I just wanted to offer my perspective.
My husband has no sense of being close to people based on social norms. If you are a relative and he has no respect for you, he will not feel compelled to pretend he is close to you when clearly he is not. Conversely, if he likes a person it does not really matter who that person is. He will be helpful and try to make your life better, if he can.
Here is one important thing to note, though: NTJs of both types are sort of process-driven, meaning if they feel your project or idea is worthwhile or in their area of expertise, and they can be a real help, and you seem like you could use their help, they might very well sort of take your project on and spend a lot of time and energy on it. This can lead to misunderstandings, as it does not necessarily mean they are terribly fond of you personally. Don’t get me wrong, if they actively dislike you, they won’t help you out unless they are expected to. But, having them take interest in what you are DOING should never be assumed to be a personal affection for you either.
At least in my experience. There are few types who take such inherent pleasure in a job well done as an ENTJ or INTJ. I have seen my husband put considerable ongoing effort into helping someone with one particular thing and then never really have much to do with them again after that. They do not get attached just by spending time with people, the way other types tend to.
Online or off, though, ENTJs can be very likeable, taking an edge off of communication that IxTJs struggle with. That's a tangent, though.
This is really interesting to me. People are not used to this. What you're talking about is a sort of--if you'll excuse the cheese--unconditional love. I can't think of a better set of words. Even though there's not that sort of closeness, you have still invested the time and energy into both the environment and the individual to help them grow to that point.
For most others in this day and age, this comes with a scoreboard attached. "I did all this for you, now I have a list of things you do for me."
INTPs are notorious for this too, for being sort of lukewarm and wishy-washy. And then we make ourselves miserable for procrastinating important confrontations and decisions. During more immature times I really wished someone else would take on that inconvenient and difficult emotional labor. Feared failure a lot, or making bad decisions, etc.
I've become a much happier person by facing my decisions as they arise, looking over my pros and cons and, honestly, taking a more ENTJ approach to handling my circumstances. Even when I've made bad decisions, the world didn't end and I could clean up my mess. Healthy people, at least, are pretty good about accepting apologies and actions to amend bad decisions.
My mom once had this sign I wish I kept: "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment."
I have an INTJ friend currently, and I've had close INTJ friends in the past. I have ended up befriending them from:
1: We geek out about a bunch of things and projects we have in common
2: I listen to them talk about something in passing that they say they want to do
3: I have skills that I offer to use to help them out
Here's what I'm thinking: The difference is I'm helping the INTJ. Experience is allowed to be established in a meaningful way for the INTJ. If it's MY project, it's not necessarily meaningful and definitely not personal to the INTJ. Since it's their project, it's a safe way to set up this foundation of experience by my going through different scenarios without the INTJ getting out of his or her comfort zone. If I handle it well, then INTJ and I are on to other projects.
Depending on the person, at some point in this adventure we become friends. I imagine this might be similar for ENTJs?
I have different reasons for it, but I also like supporting people in their visions and projects. I have also been misunderstood to be closer to people than I actually am from offering this support.
For several reasons (mainly a firm reluctance to comply with either herd mentality or groupthink) family is not a concept I believe in. As an xNTJ, arbitrarily automatic collectivism is just not something I can relate to. Instead, I assess individual persons based on their individual traits, merits and virtues. Therefore, the fact that I get along well with somebody has nothing to do with shared DNA. In fact, I’m closer to my friends (they have been chosen) than to my relatives (I dislike them). On the other hand, professional networking is a must in order to market one’s own skils.
I was sort of in my head as I interacted with new people because I said well this would be a good time to observe myself and my interactions, who I gel with and such.
What I noticed is I categorize people and their value to me.
There was a friendly guy who was essentially the first to come up to us. He was a younger and had left the company, he was venturing out on his own trying to create his own business. I liked his energy and story, we had a good conversation about the anxiety and freedom working for yourself can have.
His spouse was also there and was less friendly, she gave me a "network" vibe and I didn't talk to her. I got the feeling she was the one that pushing him to go out on his own so she could reap the benefits - she looked materialistic.
There was a co-worker who my gf has talked to me about. She was nice and friendly we talked about how I was in fact her boyfriend. She had invited me and the gf out previously to meet with her and her bf but it was bad timing so I wasn't able to make it. She seems nice and harmless and a bit silly, like a good friend for my gf.
There was another co-worker who I have seen videos of, she is actually quite funny and I liked her personality on film. When I met her I was surprised at how uptight she seemed. She seemed nice, just much more introverted then I imagined based on the videos. I had thought we'd click the most and was wrong.
The co-worker mentioned above had a bf, he and I had a good chat. He was a teacher and mainly directed the conversation about me. Seemed to be an authentic dude though, very wholesome vibe.
The person who's birthday party it was (the reason we were there) was very shy and passive. My gf had mentioned she was passive aggressive and was her former manager whom she liked as a person but not as a manager. I could see what she was talking about as she seems like a little mouse who was given a leadership role. It was weird because I felt this weird sort of attraction to her because she seemed like someone who needed guidance and to be built up but also called out for passive aggressive bs. I had a hard time figuring out what the hell that was about. Needless to say she reminded me of someone I dated lol. I can't figure out if I had a drive to fix meek people or if I like people who I know I can easily control. Or both. Eek.
Anyway, the person who I liked most was: The mother of the gal I mentioned above lol. I am currently planting a lot of stuff and her mom had this huge garden and lots of healthy plants. So I basically chatted with her for over half an hour just picking her brain on gardening tips. She was a cool lady who also made some some of the best lemon bars I've ever tasted. The things she taught me are things I've put into action this week.
In terms of real friendship potential. The first dude has the most potential. He has good energy and is a chill personality. I have a sense he has perspectives I can appreciate. If the mom wasn't from a different generation or two she'd win hands down though haha.
But that concludes the social experiment. Not sure if that illuminates the thought process of meeting new people. I guess it comes down to energy or what can someone offer but there is also a weird tendency to want to coddle certain personalities.
You wouldn't believe it at a glance--but they are number 1.
1) Everything that I do is with them in mind.
2) I do not interact with them much.
3) I will take extreme measures to try to get something critical fixed!
That said--I am a computer programmer. I want to take part in competitive and fierce business. I don't want to spend a lot of time with family. I would rather be a proud conservator then a custodial parent. I love the children--I will sit in extravagant dispositions for children. Its just not my identity to want that...
Family counts as support networks. Give and take.