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Nonfiction Book Recommendations

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This is a discussion on Nonfiction Book Recommendations within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; I highly recommend Charles Mann's 1491 and 1493 , two of my favorite nonfiction books ever. Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki is ...

  1. #11
    Unknown

    I highly recommend Charles Mann's 1491 and 1493, two of my favorite nonfiction books ever.

    Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki is also a fascinating read, one of the first examples of experimental anthropology.
    grandpa2390 thanked this post.

  2. #12
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Geonerd View Post
    I listen to Dax Sheppard's Armchair Expert podcast and I find it really interesting (I also suspect Dax is an ENTP). He talks to celebrities but also some more academic people and tries to get into the root of how that person thinks/is motivated. He was talking to Jason Matsukis (if you watch The Good Place, he's Derek) and they were talking about how easily cult-like religions take hold in LA. He said the people there always looking for (and are used to) external direction/criticism/praise between directors, agents, hair/makeup, etc. If someone from Scientology walks up and says "take this personality test....based on this test you would benefit from these counseling sessions to fix your imperfections", they have a tendency to believe it. It's hard to see it once you are in. The cults usually start with innocent self-help/enlightenment type stuff and then pull the cult crap after they are in.

    I think it is hard for an ENTP to understand how people can be reeled in but that's because we are not very motivated by external things or rewards, we like independence, and we not seeking someone to lead us. It's my experience that most people need external rewards, feel overwhelmed when there is no rules or guidance, and are looking for someone else to take the lead. There are a lot of people in the world who are always seeking guidance and someone to tell them what to do next. I have said this before but I think Loki was right in The Avengers:

    "Kneel before me. I said… KNEEL! Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power. For identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."

    Religions in general provide rules, leading, and guidance but cults take it a step farther by controlling the lives of people and teach to only listen to them because "the outside" is the enemy and is trying to lead them astray. If they don't see the counter data against what cult they are in they don't see that something is not right.

    It's completely different for kids who grow up in it. As a child, your world is your parents and your immediate surroundings. You really do not really get a concept of the outside until you are older, usually through school because you are meeting different kids living a life a little different from your own. If you grow up in a cult (or are one of those who home school so their kids don't get corrupted by liberals or ideas that do not agree with the families-I'm not saying the general home schooled kids whose parents just are not happy with the education the public school system provides and are completely normal people), you never are exposed to something different so the cult life seems normal. Often it takes an eye opening to the real world for those kids to see they are in an F'd up situation.

    I am also Roman Catholic but I know from my cousins living in conservative northeastern PA that there seems to be a big difference to the churches I grew up in a very liberal area of the mid-west. The east coast churches tend to be rules over lessons and a lot of blind faith to the priests. The churches I grew up going, the priests were not comfortable with the "hero worship" and tended present themselves as ordinary people. They also spent a lot less time talking about and worrying about the rules but all spent a lot of time digging into the theology and history/context of the bible verses over interpreting them to give you guilt or spent a lot of time begging for money. It probably was the churches my parent's chose (because my parents are super liberal) but I didn't get a bad taste in my mouth from Roman Catholic faith. I am not fond of all the pedophilia and covering it up though I think that many churches/schools have issues with that. It was how they dealt with that was the problem.
    I also listen to and love Dax's podcast. I swear, Geonerd, we are almost the same person. I feel he interrupts his guests too much though.

    I agree and I think that's why I find it all so interesting and perplexing. In the academic sense, I understand the rationale of how it happens. But as and ENTP, or just who I am as a person, I am constantly boggled by the neediness of most people. I am a people person and I love to be socially engaged in lots of different ways. But I could honestly take or leave most people on an individual basis and I've never felt a need to "fit in" or to change myself to be more appealing to the in-crowd. I can't personally relate to that really deep need to fit in, to be validated through the acceptance of others. I despise any group that requires I conform in my thinking in order to hang. It gives me the creeps, whether it's religious, political, social, or anything else.

    In terms of religion (or just the same, either polarity of political ideology), I see it used as a tool of manipulation too often - even if that's not the original intent or the main mechanism - and it becomes a non-starter for me. I remain agnostic though. Who knows? I'm not drawing a hard line either way.

  3. #13
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet_Heart View Post
    I also listen to and love Dax's podcast. I swear, Geonerd, we are almost the same person. I feel he interrupts his guests too much though.

    I agree and I think that's why I find it all so interesting and perplexing. In the academic sense, I understand the rationale of how it happens. But as and ENTP, or just who I am as a person, I am constantly boggled by the neediness of most people. I am a people person and I love to be socially engaged in lots of different ways. But I could honestly take or leave most people on an individual basis and I've never felt a need to "fit in" or to change myself to be more appealing to the in-crowd. I can't personally relate to that really deep need to fit in, to be validated through the acceptance of others. I despise any group that requires I conform in my thinking in order to hang. It gives me the creeps, whether it's religious, political, social, or anything else.

    In terms of religion (or just the same, either polarity of political ideology), I see it used as a tool of manipulation too often - even if that's not the original intent or the main mechanism - and it becomes a non-starter for me. I remain agnostic though. Who knows? I'm not drawing a hard line either way.
    Dax has mentioned that he realizes he cuts in to much. It annoys him when he hears it back. I think that's a problem I have too when someone is talking about a subject that interests me. The thing that kind of cemented me in that he may be an ENTP is when he described going to a party and saying that he cannot even remember what he was saying it was just coming out of him and he was sure he probably offended someone (since he's a recovering alcoholic, alcohol can't be blamed). I find that happens to me at parties if I start talking to an interesting person. I often find it hard to remember all that came out of me and I often realize I said something that probably offended them. The funny thing is that I was not a Dax Sheppard fan really before I started listening to the podcast. I didn't watch really anything he's done as an actor and mostly knew him as Kristin Bell's husband and Zach Braff's doppelganger. His podcast was recommended in an article about the best new podcasts and so I thought I'd check it out and I was hooked. I love the Fact Check at the end.

    Did you listen to Dax's Brett Weinstein podcast? That was fascinating.

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  5. #14
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Geonerd View Post
    Dax has mentioned that he realizes he cuts in to much. It annoys him when he hears it back. I think that's a problem I have too when someone is talking about a subject that interests me. The thing that kind of cemented me in that he may be an ENTP is when he described going to a party and saying that he cannot even remember what he was saying it was just coming out of him and he was sure he probably offended someone (since he's a recovering alcoholic, alcohol can't be blamed). I find that happens to me at parties if I start talking to an interesting person. I often find it hard to remember all that came out of me and I often realize I said something that probably offended them. The funny thing is that I was not a Dax Sheppard fan really before I started listening to the podcast. I didn't watch really anything he's done as an actor and mostly knew him as Kristin Bell's husband and Zach Braff's doppelganger. His podcast was recommended in an article about the best new podcasts and so I thought I'd check it out and I was hooked. I love the Fact Check at the end.

    Did you listen to Dax's Brett Weinstein podcast? That was fascinating.
    No but I will. I don't get too many opportunities. I always have at least one kid around at home, in the car, etc. So I usually listen when I'm cleaning or something.

    I listened to Kristen Bell, Ashton Kutcher, Jimmy Kimmel, and Seth Green (big crush on him in the 90s). I also listen to Phil in the Blanks (it's like Dr. Phil after dark lol). Dr. Phil is a guilty pleasure of mine and his podcast is interesting because he gets into his guests' heads too. Anyway, he interviewed Dax and that was a good one as well.

  6. #15
    Unknown


    @Fatal Destiny

    Causa sui is a limited perception of the reality. It roots down to the fact that most are not ment to enter the more. The will die and during their death process will never encounter anything greater than their own mind. The rationalization of lack of the possibility of depth is what naturally shallow people do.

    I wouldnt confuse you with that specific group of people. Neither should you.

    Besides. You remind me of an entp girl I knew in my youth that used to listen Evanescence. I didnt like their make up nor style back then. I sure dont mind that part now, considering what is beneath. Its the exact same thing with the layers of pragmatically sensred reality and the way more real overlapping one. Its just about the maturity of the perceiver.

  7. #16
    Unknown


    Non fiction? There was a poker ebook I received some years ago. Should find it and post it here. But before that:

    Once upon a time in Ame. ;)

  8. #17
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    just picked up William J Burns "The Back Channel" the other day

    wasn't really familiar w/ him, but I like reading foreign policy/IR stuff so it should be good

    here's stuff about him from wikipedia

    "Ambassador Burns entered the Foreign Service in 1982, and served as Deputy Secretary of State from 2011 until 2014. Previously, he served as Under Secretary for Political Affairs from 2008 until 2011. He was U.S. Ambassador to Russia from 2005 until 2008, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs from 2001 until 2005, and U.S. Ambassador to Jordan from 1998 until 2001. Before these, he was also Executive Secretary of the State Department and Special Assistant to Secretaries Warren Christopher and Madeleine Albright; Minister-Counselor for Political Affairs at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow; Acting Director and Principal Deputy Director of the State Department's Policy Planning Staff; and Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs at the National Security Council.

    Burns, together with George Tenet was instrumental in forcing through the short-lived Israeli-Palestinian cease fire agreement of June 2001.[3][4] He played a leading role in the elimination of Libya's illicit weapons program, and the secret bilateral channel with the Iranians that led to a historic interim agreement between Iran and the P5+1.,[5] and as well as in efforts to re-set relations with Russia early in the Obama Administration and in the strengthening of the strategic partnership with India. Secretary of State John Kerry lauded his "quiet, head-down, get-it-done diplomacy", stating that it had earned him the trust of both Republican and Democratic administrations; The Atlantic called him a "secret diplomatic weapon" deployed against some of the United States' thorniest foreign policy challenges.[6]

    A cable Burns signed as ambassador and released by WikiLeaks[7] describing "a high society wedding in the Caucasus -- complete with massive quantities of alcohol, lumps of gold and revolver-wielding drunkards" attended by President Ramzan Kadyrov,[8] received widespread international coverage, with historian Timothy Garton Ash writing that "Burns's analyses of Russian politics are astute," with the "highly entertaining account" of the wedding "almost worthy of Evelyn Waugh."

    Since college I've been reading non-fiction books pretty steadily, up until last yr are two when I haven't bothered reading anything. Haven't had time or have been able to find anything that holds my attention.

    As far as fiction I've never been into it. If I wanted something w/ more of a narrative I'd prob enjoy a biography more than fiction. I can't help but not care what happens to characters in fiction. That's also why I hardly watch any tv. I like documentaries, action movies, and comedies. Everything else is meh and difficult to hold my attention.

  9. #18
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet_Heart View Post
    I agree and I think that's why I find it all so interesting and perplexing. In the academic sense, I understand the rationale of how it happens. But as and ENTP, or just who I am as a person, I am constantly boggled by the neediness of most people. I am a people person and I love to be socially engaged in lots of different ways. But I could honestly take or leave most people on an individual basis and I've never felt a need to "fit in" or to change myself to be more appealing to the in-crowd. I can't personally relate to that really deep need to fit in, to be validated through the acceptance of others. I despise any group that requires I conform in my thinking in order to hang. It gives me the creeps, whether it's religious, political, social, or anything else.
    I relate to what you wrote here. I feel throughout life I've always had this weird experience that becomes apparent from time to time where its like my sentiments that are instinctual and at the core of who I am as a person is the complete opposite of so many people... and it's a weird thing, because I think it's natural to assume that other people hold those same sentiments as yourself ... and I assume that most people must want independence and autonomy and must deep down if they're honest think that religion is bullshit and things like that... but then it's like it turns out so many people are the opposite ...and not only that, they assume that everyone else must also feel at their core the way they feel at their core and thereby deny my existence, which is perhaps easier for them to do because they're in the majority and I'm in a minority.
    Scarlet_Heart thanked this post.

  10. #19

    Jean-François Lyotard - The Postmodern Condition : a Report on Knowledge
    Rachel Greene - Internet Art
    Armand Mattelart - The Information Society : An Introduction
    Donna Haraway - Cyborg Manifesto

    Is nonfiction an American concept ? I don't think we have an equivalent in French, or we group everything under the "essay" label. We more often make the distinction between novels/poetry/drama. I tend to associate fiction with novels while I see poetry as something way more experimental and close to reality, especially for authors like Rimbaud, Mallarmé or Francis Ponge (an objectivist). Although some novelists (my favorite ones) completely merge fiction with documentary and essay, to the point it could be considered nonfiction, but creative nonfiction, if that makes sense. To ENTPs, I'd highly recommend Georges Perec's books, especially Thoughts of sorts, Species of Spaces and Other Pieces, & An Attempt at Exhausting a Place in Paris. I'm 100% sure Perec was ENTP or INTP, just like Marcel Duchamp. xNTP writers/artists are the best.

  11. #20
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosloth View Post

    Is nonfiction an American concept ? I don't think we have an equivalent in French, or we group everything under the "essay" label.
    I'm not familiar with French, but I think "essay" as the word is used in English would be considered a subcategory within non-fiction. Essay to me seems to imply that it is presenting a persons opinions and ideas. Whereas something historical or scientific aimed at presenting unbiased facts like a school text book you wouldn't consider to be an essay. Also stuff like instructional books would also fall under non-fiction.

    I also think the word essay implies prose, whereas a non fiction doesn't entail such things. A cookbook for instance might not contain any paragraphs and is non fiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosloth View Post
    We more often make the distinction between novels/poetry/drama.
    All of those are subcategories that fall under fiction. Anything that's not real, not presenting facts, anything figurative/poetic etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by mangosloth View Post
    Although some novelists (my favorite ones) completely merge fiction with documentary and essay, to the point it could be considered nonfiction, but creative nonfiction, if that makes sense.
    There's no such thing as creative non fiction... if there's any unfactual element that is known by the author not to be factual then it is a work of fiction. There are plenty of books that use factual settings and details, such as a historical setting and characters... those all classify as fiction.

    I'm surprised the word fiction is used French.


    Thanks for recommending Georges Perec seems like an interesting guy :)


     
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