[ENTP] What is Intuition?

What is Intuition?

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
Thank Tree23Thanks

This is a discussion on What is Intuition? within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Hi ENTPs, I'm testing an hypothesis. Please tell me to what degree (25%, 50%, 75% or 90% of the time) ...

  1. #1
    INFJ - The Protectors

    What is Intuition?

    Hi ENTPs,

    I'm testing an hypothesis.

    Please tell me to what degree (25%, 50%, 75% or 90% of the time) that this is your experience of acquiring knowledge on a day-to-day using intuition:

    "Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"

    Thanks,
    Sun18



  2. #2
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun18 View Post
    Hi ENTPs,

    I'm testing an hypothesis.

    Please tell me to what degree (25%, 50%, 75% or 90% of the time) that this is your experience of acquiring knowledge on a day-to-day using intuition:

    "Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"

    Thanks,
    Sun18
    that's not what intuition means in mbti. if you are testing to see how many "intuitives" are very intuitive compared to sensors, you might be disappointed. at least by that definition.

    edit: PS, I used Intuition while responding to your post.

  3. #3
    ENTP

    MBTI describes it like:
    Intuition (N)
    Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I'm interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don't know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened.

    My impression:

    My current theory (and I have not yet shared this), is that it has to do with the way your brain saves & processes information.
    I think Intuitive types tend to "Save" a more "abstract" information set. Meaning it saves rather "properties" that can be used to make connections easier with other saved data. So high retrieval, but a low set of information.

    I think this is because Intuitives tend to have a big focus on predicting the future. While sensory types tend to be focused on the "current events". Meaning for example:

    - Sensing types tend to take actions that have the best outcome in the current situation. (ignoring the future)
    - Intuitive types tend to take actions that have the best outcome in the future. (ignoring the present)

    Sensing types tend to save more robust information that is more accurate but less linked.
    This seems to be consistent with the sort of memory Intuitives have. For example:

    - I tend to never remember dates, names, etc. But I can read something once and use it to construct completely new theories based on that. And there's always something "lingering". I am very specific with the kind of information that gets "saved" and most of it seems more like "in the back of your mind" kind of logic than hard layered facts. More an "I think it's this but I need to Google just to make sure". I cannot learn a wordlist from my head. But if someone used interesting words and explained to me once I will never forget them.
    - Sensory types tend to remember exact dates, names, etc. But they tend to not use this information to process other information. This means they make connections between information slower. But it makes the information available so much more precise.

    I see this a lot when I'm around my parents. My brother is also an Intuļtive type and we have many moments where we look at each other on something where we just "made the connection" while our parents tend to be completely oblivious. On their defense. We can be totally oblivious to the current situation. I tend to have this emotionally, he tends to have this logically (he's ENFP). Sometimes we are to focus on the "possibilities" and "future" that we can forget what needs to be done now and prioritize. Or better said, we tend to prioritize in a way that is not necessarily good for us in the short run. We rather spend 4 days figuring out and 2 days working. While the sensing type tends to be busy because of the high sense of "current urgency". Which can work out in both directions.

    Also, Sensory types tend to store "direct practical knowledge". If X does this then Y does that.
    Intuļtives tend to be "what happens if I do this, I think Y will happen". Sometimes when I tend to explain this. I get a backlash from sensing types thinking I'm trying to make it sound like intuļtive is an advantage or something superior. It's not.

    Nature is a very cautious "experimenter". I think this is why most types are Sensory instead of Intuļtive (because who would actually finish something otherwise?). Trying new things can be dangerous and potentially hurt more than it improves. Furthermore, it avoids that current things get done. But on the other hand, we need to evolve and get better and try new things. Nature does the same with IQ, etc. Nature tries to keep everything in a good balance. And we need all of it. But some of us tend to look at it like there is a wall in between or something.

    Which is some part understandably? Whenever I'm using Ne quite a lot around Sensing types it wears them out. (As does talking about the same connections, again and again, tires me out). I get annoyed if you're going to say 24 times the food is good and the weather is good. As much as they tend to get annoyed by "what would happen if" (insert 1424 possibilities).

    Ne: the interest in making a lot of connections in your head so the least amount of action needs to be taken.
    Se: the interest of making the connection best for the current situation so action can be taken asap.
    Shrodingers drink, knife and Sun18 thanked this post.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    PersonalityCafe.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun18 View Post
    Hi ENTPs,

    I'm testing an hypothesis.

    Please tell me to what degree (25%, 50%, 75% or 90% of the time) that this is your experience of acquiring knowledge on a day-to-day using intuition:

    "Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired"

    Thanks,
    Sun18
    Ne isn’t like that at all. Its about making connections between data points in a variety of ways. You can examine how everything connects together to map how things function and then use it fill in the holes, and you can also make out of context connections to allow you to see alternate possibilities, ie tanscontextual or tangential thinking. Its all about generating more data from data.
    strawberryLola, Sun18, knife and 1 others thanked this post.

  6. #5
    ENTP

    I forgot to make an ending statement (because it feels logical from here on).
    I do not think it's a percentage. I think it's a different way that your brain prioritizes saving/retrieving information.
    Problem is you cannot state a flat percentage on it because you are looking at it like it's two dimensional.

    I think it works a little bit more like this (if you want to envision it):

    Basically when there are resources free (you're not working mentally intensively), and there is something "New".
    You will try to do something new. I think this works like some kind of multi-queue that then gets checked off by the other stacks. But even between the different queue's, there can be prioritization. Meaning that in extreme situations it can be that certain stacks filter information out beforehand. Also the "deepest" stacks tend to have higher priorities IF they trigger an error. But the deeper stacks tend to be used less because they take A LOT LONGER to process. Also, introversion processing takes a LOT longer but tends to be "more of value".

    For example, I do not notice quickly that something is wrong by Si, but if I do... It becomes priority 1.
    Me (Si): Never notice that it's getting cold. But if they can FIX it, they fix it NOW.
    Me (Fe): Don't quickly feel like they have done something wrong, but if they did, they fix it ASAP.


    Visual representation:

    So it takes some visualization/sensor/words/anything that starts the process:


    ---------------------------------------

    Idea A:
    Ne -> Maybe it's A
    Ti -> Yes OK
    Fe -> Yes OK
    Si -> Yes OK

    Save information A as "truth".

    ---------------------------------------

    Idea B:
    Ne -> Maybe it's B
    Ti -> No NONONO because ...
    Fe -> Don't process
    Si -> Don't process

    Unresolved, place B back on queue.

    ---------------------------------------

    Idea B:
    Ne -> B unresolved because it is not logical: find correlating information C (now it depends on storage model).
    Ti -> Yes
    Fe -> Yes
    Si -> Yes

    Save C information as truth.

    ---------------------------------------

    If another stack complains (something is wrong). Then it gets sent back to the front of the queue with the "reason of why this is wrong". Just to be completely reprocessed until we have a "validation" of truth. Or basically said. Our brains go like "yes, this is true (enough)".

    As long as this is not flagged as processed. It gets sent back on the queue.
    A stack can also raise an alarm. This makes the queue prioritize the current idea.
    The prioritization probably also goes "through the queue".

    As it seems that sensory input has priority (you know, gotta walk). You now also know why you put the music off when you need to park somewhere difficult. It takes away too much priority on the stack and your body reacts on it for protection because it is overflowing with information to process. And it seems quite good at this. We also need this to survive. Sometimes a half-ass decision is better than no decision. This is when the brain decides we don't have time to process everything so it starts using tricks to process things faster. You can do this like the example I'll give under this.

    ---------------------------------------

    Example time!

    Most ENTP's I know do this with food (I use food because it's an easy decisionmaking example).

    Step 1: Ne chooses what: Try something new!
    If the queue is free (not processing other / more important things). It will try the new thing! Ne wins.
    But what if the queue is busy? You're having a project and you are thinking about that. Suddenly you are up to the counter.
    What would it be sir?

    Step 2: Ti chooses what: Use the internal list! (
    Saved something up for you. These are the dishes you liked before:
    - AA
    - BB

    That you conveniently already categorized. So you just pick whatever is top on the list.
    But wait! Number 1 and number 2 have equal taste value... I don't know what to choose!

    Step 3: Fe: I'm looking at the list and uhhh...
    Step 4: Si: I'm looking at the list and uhhh... Give me 5 minutes!

    I don't have 5 minutes. So the message gets prioritization in the queue.
    (Imagine this happening from the processing of the sensory input, there is an urge to it).
    So it gets put on the stack again. Fe is good at comparing is X better then Y. But it's not good at just knowing.

    At this point, you will see that because Ti did not decide and having it think something up will take too long. It will go through the list with ALL of the items (through Fe because this is FASTER). Just so it can keep a score "yes, no, yes". Until 1 thing is "WON". Now the part where it really gets complicated is when you start realizing that extraverted processing takes less time! So our brain is smart. And whenever it needs to make a decision fast (like NOW) it prioritizes the Exterior stacks. (Like when you do not expect it but need to respond immediately).

    Whatever if filtered throughout the Exterior stacks gets put back on the stack. This is why we can also "miss" things completely.
    Now with the "rest" of the items. It goes through the stack again. This is sort of filtering for gaining processing > efficiency.

    Ti did not provide an answer fast enough. So we just PUMP through. "Pizza vs Lettuce" what brings the best emotion Fe?
    Oh okay, Pizza -> Places pizza back in the stack. Pizza goes through stack and Ti says: "dude, this gonna make you fat & it's going to make your stomach sick. Pick something else. -> back to the stack.

    I think until all stacks have agreed you are just "thinking". If the pressure of decisionmaking is high it starts prioritizing more and more, possibly filtering out the best solution for the quickest. It might mean that you do not make many Ne cycles and go with whatever fits for sake of self-preservation. Or you might loop and stand still. Completely. That's because some people their queue gets "stacked" infinitely. This is also why they learn people to deal with critical situations! Because if you have trained on it. You have prioritization set up in your head by training and rules. Which is good to rely on in extreme situations so it gives a pathway where you saw none before.

    So how much Ne do you use?
    I think it really depends on the necessity. I will use more Ne when I need it. I will use less Ne when I do not need it. The stronger the Ne pulls like 15 related items on the stack. While a weak Ne pulls 2-3 related items on the stack. And I think it's really really difficult to go and put a percentage of usage on that. Considering item X might put 10 more items on the stack (depending on how much information is stored) (what is the physical limitation) (your current knowledge) (are there other priorities?) etc. There are just too many variables. Impossible and utter "speculation". Which is exactly how I look at IQ tests. I also do not think that one person just has 4 stacks. I think it's more of preferential treatment. Every stack is born out of the necessity of the problem of the previous one. You cannot use one stack more without losing power on the other. The older we get the more balanced out the stacks become (fine balancing). Not every pattern of stacks is possible because that would become unprocessable (aka infinite looping) so you don't do it. This is probably something that just grew out of control from when you were young.

    This is why you see ENTP's change so drastically from young to old. Most tend to go from class-clown-interrupter-2000 to altruistic. They just shifted some of their Ne usages into the other stacks. Which helps the rest! Possibly that is because we have processed enough "floating" information so things get processed a lot quicker. And it is just because we can retrieve more information. And the necessity of Ne becomes lower to "draw a conclusion" because we can filter previous occurrences out by the Ti list.

    Also, two more things which Ne made me think of:

    ADHD. This seems like whatever they stick on people who are having a WAY to big of S or N stack at the front. (If it's F, we tend to call it borderline? Idk..). I've known a few people who were considered ADHD patients. Do you know how a few of them got out? They got out by refuting the idea it exists. And learned to develop themselves. (I'm talking specific for them, Idk about others so do not take this as a "truth claim").

    They never understood why they were poking the world around but they just did. Seriously if you hear them talk about it. It creeps you out. It's like missing a part of yourself. But I guess finding yourself is the journey we have all set sail into :-).

    Migraine. I used to have a shitload of migraines. This happened almost exclusively when I was under stress (and infinitely looping by Ne). Which always ended in me and a crying headache while my brain felt as it was beļng hit by a hammer every X seconds. The older I become the rarer they become. I think this is because I tend to not fall into infinite looping as much anymore.

    It's all still a theory tho :-). Never shared it before but.. Why not?
    Sun18 thanked this post.

  7. #6
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    Ne isn’t like that at all. Its about making connections between data points in a variety of ways. You can examine how everything connects together to map how things function and then use it fill in the holes, and you can also make out of context connections to allow you to see alternate possibilities, ie tanscontextual or tangential thinking. Its all about generating more data from data.
    precisely. Sensors take in, and learn, information directly via their senses. what they can see, touch, hear, taste, smell, etc. Intuition is gaining information indirectly by the recognition of patterns.

    I may butcher this, but the folks over at Personality Hacker likened it to the Wizard of Oz. The sensor sees the curtain and, to know what's behind it, must peek behind it. The intuitive sees the curtain and recoginizes the patterns that allow him or her to see, guess, or imagine, what's behind the curtain without direct observation.
    It is something like that. And that's how intuition more or less works. We don't see everything the way a sensor does. We see the patterns.

    I don't know. I can't shake the feeling that I am actually an Ni-dom rather than Ne-dom... that I am an INxJ. sorting out the functions and assigning them to what you do or don't do can be a difficult task. Why can't there be a type with both Ne and Ni in the primary stack :)
    Last edited by grandpa2390; 04-19-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    Sun18 thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by grandpa2390 View Post
    precisely. Sensors take in, and learn, information directly via their senses. what they can see, touch, hear, taste, smell, etc. Intuition is gaining information indirectly by the recognition of patterns.

    I may butcher this, but the folks over at Personality Hacker likened it to the Wizard of Oz. The sensor sees the curtain and, to know what's behind it, must peek behind it. The intuitive sees the curtain and recoginizes the patterns that allow him or her to see, guess, or imagine, what's behind the curtain without direct observation.
    It is something like that. And that's how intuition more or less works. We don't see everything the way a sensor does. We see the patterns.

    I don't know. I can't shake the feeling that I am actually an Ni-dom rather than Ne-dom... that I am an INxJ. sorting out the functions and assigning them to what you do or don't do can be a difficult task. Why can't there be a type with both Ne and Ni in the primary stack :)
    I’ve had few conscious Ni moments and its weird AF! Shit just pops into your head and you have no idea of how it got there. Its an answer with no workings and no way of proving its correct.
    Sun18 and knife thanked this post.

  9. #8
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    I’ve had few conscious Ni moments and its weird AF! Shit just pops into your head and you have no idea of how it got there. Its an answer with no workings and no way of proving its correct.
    I identify as an INFJ, and this happens to me all the time. For example, I will dream that a woman that I've not seen in years is 3 months pregnant, and I later on find out that it's true. I may not need or care about this information.

    Sun18
    Shrodingers drink and knife thanked this post.

  10. #9
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodingers drink View Post
    I’ve had few conscious Ni moments and its weird AF! Shit just pops into your head and you have no idea of how it got there. Its an answer with no workings and no way of proving its correct.
    Yeah. It's like I half-identify with the traits of both Ni and Ne, the good and the bad of both. So I'm not just cherry picking the best of both worlds.
    It doesn't help that the language used to describe Ni and Ne often leaves much to be desired in the ease of interpretation. Without being a psychologist or something, I wish authors would give more illustrations.

    like this:
    • Ni relies on subjective impressions of (time-related) patterns


    what the heck does that mean?
    I can break it down and each individual word I understand. but put them together in a sentence, and I'm not sure what concept is trying to be communicated.

    I do wonder how many of us are mistyped because we can't understand the language and jargon being used to describe the functions. and so we cling onto the functions that are both easiest to understand and identify with when a function that is hard to understand would be more identifiable, if only people didn't work so hard to sound intelligent while describing them.
    Sun18 and Shrodingers drink thanked this post.

  11. #10
    Unknown Personality

    and based on this: https://introvertdear.com/news/infj-...ys-tell-apart/
    if I am Ni-dom, I identify mostly with INFJ in all the examples. but at the same time, I am not sure I am INFJ. While I do believe Fe belongs in my stack, it just seems like INFJs are described as being better with people than I am. But INTJs are much worse with people than I am. But maybe I was just in an environment that caused my Fe to be slower to develop? or maybe my Fe belongs in a tertiary position. But like the author of the article, I was always on the sensitive side.

    But if characters like Gandalf, Dumbledore, etc. are truly believed to be INFJs... my abilities are on par with theirs at similar points in their lives.

    If I could create a new type, I feel like my personal type would be something like Ni-Ti-Fe-Se.

    edit:
    maybe... I'm INFJ, but I have spent a great deal of my years (due to circumstances) in a Tertiary Loop. I feel like I can be too sensitive and moody, and care too much about my comfort/feelings, and the comfort/feelings of others, to be cold, rational, business-like INTJ. And I'm not really ashamed to put my feelings out there until I have trouble expressing them and feel embarrassed. so I only tend to share them with someone I trust.
    I've tried journaling, but I have to share my emotions/feelings with a human being to be rid of them. writing to a journal about them doesn't cut them loose the way people online describe. but I can send a text in 10 seconds to a person, have no clue whether or not they have or will actually read it... and feel instantly better.

    edit2: number 4 in that link, depending on how you interpret it, could go either way for me. but number 5 I am back to INFJ. I mentioned before about moodiness etc. my work ethic is dependant on my emotional energy. if I get fussed at by my boss unjustly, I'm not going to be doing a whole lot until I find a coworker I can vent to. my emotional energy is in the negative then.
    but I can be a bit linear and methodical. unless I don't understand what they mean about INFJ's holistic approach.
    Last edited by grandpa2390; 04-19-2019 at 06:27 PM.


     
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Enneagram Type 4] What happens when you get what you long for? Or do you ever get what you long for?
    By L P in forum Type 4 Forum - The Individualist
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-14-2019, 02:30 PM
  2. Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-31-2019, 02:03 PM
  3. [INFJ] orgasm vs intuition infj = this is the same ... an error in intuition?
    By fabi in forum INFJ Forum - The Protectors
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 08-16-2018, 04:00 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:55 PM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0