[ENTP] ENTPs against arguing??

ENTPs against arguing??

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33
Thank Tree28Thanks

This is a discussion on ENTPs against arguing?? within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Usually the stigma for ENTPs is the need for debate and needless arguing. And I've seen this is a lot ...

  1. #1

    ENTPs against arguing??

    Usually the stigma for ENTPs is the need for debate and needless arguing. And I've seen this is a lot of ENTPs to various degrees. However I tend to veer on the lower spectrum of the debate thing. I just want everyone to try to understand everyone else's opinion without it getting super emotional. I know I'm not the only ENTP who's not a big fan of argument but I just wanna here your opinions.

    I was raised under two conservative SJ parents who know how to make arguments out of everything. As an inborn contrarian, I've noticed that many things simply aren't worth arguing over. While I can be excellent at arguing (given that I know what I'm talking about), I prefer not to give my energy to constant debate. Instead, I prefer to see the other person's viewpoint--unless their viewpoint is too ridiculous or I've seen it proven to be wrong. And even then, I drop the subject when it gets too heated.

    Then again, maybe I just have a phobia of overly emotional people. *shrugs*

    Anyway, what are your thoughts?
    strawberryLola, series0, Crowbo and 1 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    SJ parents wouldn't be so bad once ya got to the age
    you could see through them logically. In so far as debates are concerned anyhow.


    Married to an SJ myself as well as have SJ children.

    Was raised by, well many of people really, but If I claim my mom
    raised me (which would be a stretch) then I was raised by an ENFP.

    Getting side tracked.

    For me a debate is definable to certain parameters.
    Which can differ greatly given context.


    Anything else? Is talking. I learn by questioning everything.
    This comes off debate-y. It is not. It is my curious nature
    to question everything. To bring it back to its core/ expand it into infinite.

    What I consider brainstorming most people around me
    consider arguing/debating.

    It is the contention that makes people feel like their
    words are being attacked. I do not feel that contention
    when I am speaking. Therefore I have to check myself
    in certain settings to be sure (even though I am not being
    argumentative to my mind) that I am not ostracizing others
    ideas. Thus making them turtle and be more useless to the
    group.


    There is a theory about developments of skills called the zone of proximal development.
    It is interesting and may lend to some more understanding on your question.

    The idea is basically that without group think some people cant develop
    well at all ..or at least that is their preferred/most effective method of contribution/
    ability to learn. Basically? Some people have great ideas when they can sit back and
    watch the show. Yet without that show the ideas are an enigma to them.
    They need that zone of proximal development. Which, indeed, can benefit anyone
    really. Yet there are people who are almost stagnant without such stimulation for
    deep thought/problem solving.

    Kinda just assuming a lot there but seems legit.

  3. #3

    ENTPs hate arguments, emotions just get in the way of a good impersonal debate.
    Fenty, Crowbo and bunnyearslawyer thanked this post.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    PersonalityCafe.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    I’m an XNTP and I thought it was just me! I feel your pain on the SJ front. I was married for 20 + years to an SJ and the arguments were so not worth my time and terribly frivolous. I’m more than willing to discuss something if we can put it on the table and examine it together, but when the other person insists on putting the issue between you and creates a tug of war about who is right I would rather just not participate. Yes the SJ will create arguments out of thin air. One of my daughters does it regularly and she has a life of constant drama that she denies she has anything to do with. It’s an SJ specialty I think. Ugh

  6. #5
    ENTP

    It's not that I'm against arguing, it's that people's motives for arguing are different to mine. I want to exchange information. I want to hear a compelling case from the opposite side, which doesn't necessarily have to change my opinion, but can enlighten me about a different way to view an issue.

    Most people I encounter are only concerned with being "right." And even worse, have convinced themselves of their "rightness" and refuse to consider alternative ways to view an issue. What's the point of debating with someone who isn't going to listen to what you have to say, anyway? That's an enormous waste of energy.
    PowerShell and Geonerd thanked this post.

  7. #6
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Allersky View Post
    It's not that I'm against arguing, it's that people's motives for arguing are different to mine. I want to exchange information. I want to hear a compelling case from the opposite side, which doesn't necessarily have to change my opinion, but can enlighten me about a different way to view an issue.

    Most people I encounter are only concerned with being "right." And even worse, have convinced themselves of their "rightness" and refuse to consider alternative ways to view an issue. What's the point of debating with someone who isn't going to listen to what you have to say, anyway? That's an enormous waste of energy.
    This was exactly what I was going to say. It's the fact that arguing to me is about understanding each other's side without necessarily being right or wrong or changing your side. It seems for most people, it is about winning and being "right" with the only other option being that the other person loses and is "wrong".

    I also hate emotional arguments, mainly because they are rarely logical arguments.
    Wellsy, Aridela, Allersky and 1 others thanked this post.

  8. #7

    I am familiar with the quandary, @FueledByEvil , of dealing with an intensely curious nature while trying not to come off as, well, an antagonistic prick. The best, and most concise, way I’ve been able to explain it to people (I use the word “arguing” because that’s the one that makes the most sense to most folks) is: I’m not arguing to convince you. I’m arguing to convince me.

  9. #8
    Unknown

    Overall i thought typing is more about cognition than behaviors. Perhaps certain ways of thinking lead to certain behaviors over others more but not sure why I ought o believe it will always lead to some behaviors. We are always a combination of our environment and genetics. I guess I just don't see why someone couldn't be taught to behave a different way.

    I personally like discussing ideas but am cautious with those who are more prone to taking things too personally. I don't really learn much from people getting emotionally upset and these type of debates tend to quickly degenerate into insulting back and forth. All I learn from that is that the other person doesn't like me, or is projecting something or whatever but next to nothing about what I wanted to talk about. So if someone seems like they will debate the idea I'm happy to to engage in that, but if it seems like they want to debate my personhood, eh, I rather do something else.
    tahrah11 thanked this post.

  10. #9

    ENTP's do not argue, we simply present logical arguments that have been so well thought through over many years of procrastrination that it is hard for even the most stubborn ESFJ to argue against.

  11. #10
    ENTP

    Quote Originally Posted by bunnyearslawyer View Post
    Usually the stigma for ENTPs is the need for debate and needless arguing. And I've seen this is a lot of ENTPs to various degrees. However I tend to veer on the lower spectrum of the debate thing. I just want everyone to try to understand everyone else's opinion without it getting super emotional. I know I'm not the only ENTP who's not a big fan of argument but I just wanna here your opinions.

    I was raised under two conservative SJ parents who know how to make arguments out of everything. As an inborn contrarian, I've noticed that many things simply aren't worth arguing over. While I can be excellent at arguing (given that I know what I'm talking about), I prefer not to give my energy to constant debate. Instead, I prefer to see the other person's viewpoint--unless their viewpoint is too ridiculous or I've seen it proven to be wrong. And even then, I drop the subject when it gets too heated.

    Then again, maybe I just have a phobia of overly emotional people. *shrugs*

    Anyway, what are your thoughts?
    Most of the following is spoken in general but it's off course still my perception of it.

    "I just want to hear your opinions". To extract those most ENTP's use statements instead of questions. It is really hard (almost for anyone) to only ask questions. Most ENTP's are not too emotional and want to know/understand what the other person is saying as fast as possible and the most efficient way is to *spam* and request validation/rejection. This leads to pointing out things that people do not want to face or talk about. Especially with the typical 0% Fe development where we don't notice. If you want to understand how that feels then think about the feeling you get when SJ's starting nagging about all those daily chores you neglected (put off) or simply don't care about.

    ENTP's tend to throw out theories with no expectations of it to be true and almost NEVER with emotional intent as far as I saw and know myself. But if you combine this with emotional people who FEEL as your theories are judgements of their character/existence by every word (they always seek intent). Imagine if the other person is not busy processing if the information you threw out was true but was busy processing the intent behind your sentence. Now imagine that they assume you work the same as almost everyone else. Boom. It goes really horrible ... Hence that most ENTP's are not a big fan of overly emotional people. Because for us to communicate with them we need to constantly validate if we are not imposing some sort of judgement. Also, we need them to avoid drawing the wrong conclusions based on dogma's they have in their head from other people.

    I can definitely add that I don't understand 99% of people their problems (at all). I don't feel like I'm debating most of the times. More like discovering the world and its possibilities. But for others, they are perceived as attacks. I sometimes want to say "do you actually think I have time to waste on something so futile as trash-talking you". But I'm sure that that would only make it worse.

    P.S. I cannot put my energy into senseless debate. If you are not a person who's open to another perspective then I lose all interest in interacting. Heating really depends on "which kind". I drop out when the other person gets too emotional. Meaning they can debate enthusiastically and call me a loving idiot. But the moment they go into this self-defence mode I'm out. If you say something to me and I debate it. It's probably because I respect you enough that you might be right. So I try to figure out what it is. I can't really do that without validating things against each other.

    What I'm basically saying is that it really just depends on what you call debating :'). But I guess saying that is already debating for some people!

    Not agreeing = debating.
    Setting definitions = debating.
    Fact-checking = debating.
    Asking questions about gaps = debating.

    So many things are so quick to be perceived as debating.


     
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTP] Do most ENTPs argue against their MBTI result?
    By Falling Foxes in forum ENTP Forum- The Visionaries
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 11-01-2016, 02:42 PM
  2. SOPA/PIPA Against it or ultra against it?
    By TJSeabury in forum Member Polls
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-10-2013, 04:42 PM
  3. [ENTP] Arguing (yes everyone loves arguing)
    By Julian Bocking in forum ENTP Forum- The Visionaries
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 10-10-2012, 08:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:41 PM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0