[ENTP] Is it weird for an ENTP to be religious, conservative, and hold traditional values?

Is it weird for an ENTP to be religious, conservative, and hold traditional values?

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This is a discussion on Is it weird for an ENTP to be religious, conservative, and hold traditional values? within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; I don't think you need to look very far into the ENTP's characteristics to see why we eschew traditional values ...

  1. #1
    ENTP

    Is it weird for an ENTP to be religious, conservative, and hold traditional values?

    I don't think you need to look very far into the ENTP's characteristics to see why we eschew traditional values and religion...

    Now I followed the same path that most ENTPs likely do. In my high school/college years I poked holes in the belief system I was raised in (Catholic, traditional societal values, and conservative politics) and did a lot of stupid things. I guess you could say that I fancied myself a rebel. Surprise surprise.

    Yet there was this vivid, intuitive moment one day that I would return to the Church, and I responded to it with a yes. (Of course, still fancying myself a rebel I also responded with a "I'm going to change the Church from within" sort of impulse. But it wasn't I who changed the Church it was the Church who changed me.) And over the years through a number of other experiences and decisions I came back full circle with the original belief system I was given, just with my own flair and in my own way. I guess you could say I "prodigal son'ed" my beliefs.

    But I kind of feel like an anomaly within my own type. I've seen the statistics on sites like 16personalities.com. ENTPs are one of the least likely to be religious & politically/socially conservative. Am I really that much of an anomaly? Or am I just falling into the perception as an ENTP that I am not like others? (Even if that is my own type.)

    I still find myself kind of contrarian to a lot of the SJ mentality in traditional society, yet intellectually and intuitively I find them to be my allies. In fact, it's almost a mark of pride that I find myself to be an anomaly both in traditional society (even though I find it so far to be true) and even within my own type.
    Nails thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Well, all you give so far are clues that you are not ENTP.

  3. #3
    Unknown

    I'm gonna agree, you don't have a mega-ENTPish way of thinking/writing.

    Why would beliefs matter? Why does it matter if you're in one camp or a different one? Why does it matter if you're an anomaly? What do you mean by, "conservative values"? Do you think conservatism is true and even if the word didn't exist you'd still know that the theory underlying it was true? Chomsky talks about how there's no difference between the theory of classical conservatism and that of classical liberalism; both sets of theorists were (or would have been if they weren't writing a century too early to even imagine it) completely against allowing a corporate slave society from developing (Republican slogans during the gilded age were, "We're the party who opposes wage slavery" and "Wage slavery is chattel slavery.")

    ENTPs can be religious in a sort of abstract, nebulous, ontologico-psychological way, and it's potentially important for them because growth is all about developing the traits of your opposite type (ISFJ for ENTP), but you do it within the context of your own type. Religious ENTP is more like this, I think:

    Blue Ribbon thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    Cognitive development continues into one's 20s. It is entirely possible you typed yourself before you were done developing cognitively. Either snap out of it, or retest and see what you get.

  6. #5

    I don't think being religious is incompatible with being ENTP or with other NT personalities. I was raised very religious as a kid and I believed in it partly to please my parents but also because I really, really, really liked debating about theology and pushing the bounds of what "most people" assumed about their own faith. Your phrase about wanting to "change the church from within" sounds like something I might have said at that age.

    People tend to assume that religion = tradition and never questioning anything, but a lot of religious tradition actively encourage asking questions and looking at things in new ways and I can definitely see an ENTP or similar types fitting in well in that kind of environment.
    Debbern and Nails thanked this post.

  7. #6

    ENTP is in four letters the concept of someone who challenges obsessively the consistency of one's prognoses on one's own, with rationality and more so, creativity. Biased to distrust sensations, feelings, one's prognoses and decisions.

    Beliefs and religiousness are highly uncomfortable for an ENTP. They cannot be pleased with their ideas and find any comfort in the communion of those. Impossible for ENTPs to remain deliberately attached to a certainty (be-leubh), a prognosis, that is questionable or proven inconsistent, no matter how significant the inconsistency appears to be.

    It's not about being rebellious against authorities, but one's own prognoses. Anybody can be a rebel. If outlawry and revolutions were a bunch of ENPs, prisons would be empty and we'd be in the stone age.

    When one grows in a very religious and traditional family, it doesn't take much display of defiance to assume they're ENTP ; it takes much more to be one.
    FueledByEvil thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by IDontThinkSo View Post
    Impossible for ENTPs to remain deliberately attached to a certainty (be-leubh), a prognosis, that is questionable or proven inconsistent, no matter how significant the inconsistency appears to be.
    The thing is that not all religious beliefs are internally inconsistent. Religious texts often have numerous inconsistencies, especially when they're compiled from different writers over a long span of time, like the Christian Bible. Any religious person will tell you that the text isn't 100% of their beliefs.

    Examples of religious beliefs that have some high levels of internal consistency can be found in Medieval and Renaissance science -- early scientists were often connected to the Church and put a lot of effort into finding rational, internally consistent ways of explaining the world -- ways that were based on things that pretty much everyone at the time considered unshakable truths about the world, ie the existence of a monotheistic god.

    The fact that these rational, internally consistent ways of explaining the world aren't actually accurate is less important. The ENTP personality uses Ti, which (at least according to my understanding) means that coming up with something that makes sense can be totally satisfying even when it fails to accurately reflect reality. And reality often fails to be internally consistent -- just ask quantum physics.

    I'm not arguing in favor of "religion" or saying anything either way about the OP's personality. I'm not personally religious. I just wanna raise the fact that religion and rationality aren't completely mutually exclusive the way that people tend to assume they are.
    Debbern thanked this post.

  9. #8

    No, you don't strike me as ENTP, OP. I think you might be an Ni type if you're sure of being an intuitive type.

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by mayberaye View Post
    The thing is that not all religious beliefs are internally inconsistent. Religious texts often have numerous inconsistencies, especially when they're compiled from different writers over a long span of time, like the Christian Bible. Any religious person will tell you that the text isn't 100% of their beliefs.

    Then they cherry pick -> Opposite attitude of ENTP.

    Examples of religious beliefs that have some high levels of internal consistency can be found in Medieval and Renaissance science -- early scientists were often connected to the Church and put a lot of effort into finding rational, internally consistent ways of explaining the world -- ways that were based on things that pretty much everyone at the time considered unshakable truths about the world, ie the existence of a monotheistic god.

    Which ones? And why would those be ENTP? Either efforts where done to protect their own beliefs (no ENTP, opposite attitude) or to protect themselves from the church (in which case they wouldn't actually believe in their own explanations)


    The fact that these rational, internally consistent ways of explaining the world aren't actually accurate is less important. The ENTP personality uses Ti, which (at least according to my understanding) means that coming up with something that makes sense can be totally satisfying even when it fails to accurately reflect reality. And reality often fails to be internally consistent -- just ask quantum physics.

    ENTP personality uses ENTP, so even T is predominantly extraverted. At least not according to the inconsistent MBTI.

    Spinoza, maybe the only consistent Rennaissance dude, would beg to differ. Reality never fails to be consistent. All the conditions for the existence of the Universe are within itself, hence it cannot self-destruct since it cannot self-construct, everything about the Universe perpetuates itself and consistency is the fundamental attribute of existence. Only inconsistent theories don't reflect this reality.


    I'm not arguing in favor of "religion" or saying anything either way about the OP's personality. I'm not personally religious. I just wanna raise the fact that religion and rationality aren't completely mutually exclusive the way that people tend to assume they are.
    Religion is a byproduct of having some cognitive biases that get in the way of being NE dom. Gathering together, and agreeing on something, sure is not an irrational behavior per se. Being addicted to what motives this result on the other hand, to the point of enjoying it, a force being required to build and follow religions, is the result of sucking at science.

  11. #10

    if you relate to the stench of pretentiousness that goes in this thread you might be an entp

    how can someone be both pretentious and wrong? entp's


     
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