Apparently ESFJs would rather not talk about themselves...

Apparently ESFJs would rather not talk about themselves...

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This is a discussion on Apparently ESFJs would rather not talk about themselves... within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; I have recently started dating an INTP, and we have gotten really into reading about our respective personality types. Interestingly, ...

  1. #1

    Apparently ESFJs would rather not talk about themselves...

    I have recently started dating an INTP, and we have gotten really into reading about our respective personality types. Interestingly, he has found countless forums by INTPs, has had enjoyed reading about others' experiences as his same type. I, however, have found no forums for ESFJs! I am surprised by this, given that as an ESFJ, I love to talk to other people, especially people with whom I have something in common. And yet, no ESFJs seem to be interested in the least in talking about themselves. This shouldn't be terribly surprising, as ESFJs are caregivers, and on many of the profiles I have read about how much we enjoy talking about other people. Perhaps we should start a forum called, "What ESFJs think about everyone else"? That might get the conversation going.

    In all honesty, though, I would find it very helpful to compare notes, as it were, with others like me. Let's get this ball rolling, shall we?

    Here's a few topics of conversation:
    * Interesting especially to me, how does an ESFJ get along with the polar opposite type, the INTP? I have found it to be a delightful match, certainly a complementary one, as long as sights are set outward and communication is open.
    * Has anyone taken the Enneagram test? I find many common characteristics between my ESFJ-ness and my Enneagram 2-ness. What are other people's Enneagram types?
    * From a faith perspective, how does your ESFJ type relate to your faith (in my case, Christian faith, but really any faith)? Do you believe, as I do, that some of the best characteristics of your type are directly related to your efforts to live into the ideals of your faith?
    * What has been your experience in friend relationships? Do you find yourself to be a better or worse friend than others? How about your romantic relationships?
    lenabelle thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INTP - The Thinkers

    I hope this thread gets some replies... I just figured that the world was your guys' forum, and didn't expect any of you to show up here (in wanting to learn about the opposite type, I went looking for ESFJ forums a little while back, as well, and didn't find any).

    Welcome to the forum, btw.

  3. #3
    INFP - The Idealists

    Oh, cool! An ESFJ to study! I'm currently living with an ESFJ relative, and I find her fascinatingly different from me. As long as I keep my room clean and do my laundry once a week, we get along great, even if she tends to overwhelm me on a social level. She takes me out to do things because she thinks it's unhealthy for me to be cooped up in my room all the time, which may be true. She also invites friends over a lot, and I have to put in my earplugs and hide. She loves talking about other people, but now that you mention it, she doesn't really talk about herself very much. Maybe she just assumes that everybody already knows everything about her, since she is Fe dominant and very open about her feelings as they are occurring.

    How does an ESFJ get along with the polar opposite type, the INTP?
    Well, she has an INTP son, and they don't get along well at all. She thinks he is lazy and irresponsible. She wants him to be something he can't be or shouldn't have to be, and he thinks she's stupid and controlling.

    Has anyone taken the Enneagram test? What are other people's Enneagram types?
    Yes. I have tested most often as 4w5, but also as 9w1 and 2w1. My results haven't been consistent.

    From a faith perspective, how does your ESFJ type relate to your faith (in my case, Christian faith, but really any faith)? Do you believe, as I do, that some of the best characteristics of your type are directly related to your efforts to live into the ideals of your faith?
    My ESFJ relative is a Christian, but not in the same way that I am. She believes in tradition and following rules, while I am an idealist, more concerned with living according to ideals and values that come from a Christian worldview. The distinction is subtle, but makes a huge difference in how we approach spirituality. She finds going to church once a week more useful than I do because she is an extraverted judging type, while I prefer discussing religious topics in smaller groups or online, being an introverted perceiving type. She focuses more on spirituality as something she does externally, while I see it more as a personal philosophy I hold internally, probably because of the S/N distinction.


    What has been your experience in friend relationships? Do you find yourself to be a better or worse friend than others? How about your romantic relationships?
    My ESFJ relative has many, many, many, many friends. She loves them all dearly, but to me they seem like shallow relationships because they are more about being able to go out and do things together than sitting around having deep, personal discussions. She is a nurturing person who lets her friends stay in the guest bedroom and feeds them, showing affection through generous physical displays. When I first came to live with her, she took me shopping for new clothes as a bonding experience through which she could show her love. Romantically, she values physical security, but settled for a relationship that was emotionally unstable. This has caused her great stress over the years, but her traditional views of marriage have kept her with someone who might not be fully compatible with her.




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  5. #4
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    I find snail's answer an amazing description of an ESFJ. my mom and sister are ones. i had an ESFJ friend before but that didn't end well.


    this is what socionics has to say about an ESFJ interrelationship with INTP:

    Conflict
    Relations of Conflict (Example: LII and SEE) are, unsurprisingly, characterized by constantly escalating conflict. Conflictors are the types with the most dissimilar values, and they rarely understand anything regarding each other's motivations or lifestyles. Conflictors may take for granted truths that their partners will dismiss as absurd. Sometimes they understand each other so little that the conflict is not well understood, but prevails under the surface, discomfiting both partners to no end. Conflictors also are of opposite temperaments, a fact which both partners often find irritating.

    ofcourse, shouldnt be taken literraly, each one of u has to be 100% his type for this to be 100% the case.

    Personnally this is what i am bugged at about ESFJ:

    Orderly
    Don't need their alone time at all
    Follow rules
    Like to go out just for the sake of going out
    Fail to have a deep conversation, puts them on edge
    Passes off statements like *supposed to be* all the time
    Will keep to themselves when they are bugged at you, wont approach u and tell u

    This is what i know about INTP:

    Have deep abstract theories about random things in life, they aren't comfortable with sharing it to anyone
    Value space
    Hate clingers, because they dont understand feelings, and wouldnt want to hurt this person
    Feelings arent *important* to INTP, they could subsitute it most of the time.
    When they are romantic, WHEN, its adorable. coz its not their norm, so its amazing and genuine and unique.

    This is what i can muster up at this hour, i could come back later to say more.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by starrynights View Post
    This is what i know about INTP:

    Have deep abstract theories about random things in life, they aren't comfortable with sharing it to anyone
    Value space
    Hate clingers, because they dont understand feelings, and wouldnt want to hurt this person
    Feelings arent *important* to INTP, they could subsitute it most of the time.
    When they are romantic, WHEN, its adorable. coz its not their norm, so its amazing and genuine and unique.

    This is what i can muster up at this hour, i could come back later to say more.
    My personal experience with an ESFJ was not pleasant. However, I think I've met others whom I don't mind quite so much, since they don't seem to be nearly so neurotic. I still don't think I could have an intimate relationship with an ESFJ.

    Welcome to the forum, btw.

    About the INTP, I think you're wrong about being uncomfortable with sharing theories with others. If the other person shows interest, we'll talk about our theories to our heart's content. At least, that is my experience. It's just that we aren't wont to go around talking about our theories the way ENTPs might. I personally would wait for someone to ask me for my opinions and theories.

  7. #6
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    i love INTPs, yes i mean they dont share their theories except if they feel comfortable and were asked. an ENTP would die to tell as soon as possible.

  8. #7

    Man, I am sorry you all have had such negative experiences with ESFJs - I promise we're not all neurotic! We are actually deeply feeling people who enjoy interactions with other people. I am sometimes disappointed when people don't reciprocate my willingness to share deep parts of myself; I WANT to know people deeply, I LOVE being the person they feel comfortable coming to when they're in need. I don't tend to sit around discussing theories that are distinct from human experience, but a conversation that IS rooted in human connection and relevance and feelings would not put me on edge - it would in fact exhilarate me! I absolutely DO need alone time (although I am only 68% E), and my favorite kind of "social" time is with one or two close friends, not going to a party just for the sake of it. I do have a strong sense of obligation and responsibility, resulting in a lot of "shoulds," yes, but such loyalty is seen as an asset in other types!
    ToxicButterfly thanked this post.

  9. #8
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joma J View Post
    Man, I am sorry you all have had such negative experiences with ESFJs - I promise we're not all neurotic! We are actually deeply feeling people who enjoy interactions with other people. I am sometimes disappointed when people don't reciprocate my willingness to share deep parts of myself; I WANT to know people deeply, I LOVE being the person they feel comfortable coming to when they're in need. I don't tend to sit around discussing theories that are distinct from human experience, but a conversation that IS rooted in human connection and relevance and feelings would not put me on edge - it would in fact exhilarate me! I absolutely DO need alone time (although I am only 68% E), and my favorite kind of "social" time is with one or two close friends, not going to a party just for the sake of it. I do have a strong sense of obligation and responsibility, resulting in a lot of "shoulds," yes, but such loyalty is seen as an asset in other types!
    congratulations ur pretty over developed.

  10. #9
    INFP - The Idealists

    My step-mom is an ESFJ definitely. We actually get along really great except for when she tells me how to do something. She can be controlling and it seems like she thinks "her" way and opinions are the only right ones often. I have a lot to disagree with her about, but I'd rather not start conflict. Overall though, we get along great. She's very caring and thoughtful and friendly, and it seems like she's always up for a conversation which is nice. I think she's a great person. One thing that bugs me though is when she starts talking to me when I have my headphones on and I'm listening to music. She doesn't seem to understand that I like to be left alone when I'm on the computer, and that when I have headphones on, it means don't bug me. But oh well, I'm glad to have her as a step mom.

  11. #10

    In response to snail:
    I very much appreciated you post. A number of people have commented on ESFJs' cleanness... I reckon anyone who knows me would scoff at this. I DO, however, keep my mess in my place, and I can only tolerate it for so long. So if you were to look around my apartment, my room might be a disaster, but the mess in the rest of the apartment would all be my roommate's.

    I was especially interested in your different ways of practicing your faith. I am, as it turns out, a theology student, so am always interested in how people experience their faith. I think a community experience like Sunday worship and more intimate gatherings like Bible studies are equally important, as they feed very different parts of one's faith. It has been interesting to see my ESFJ-ness come out in my view of the Church (as someone ready to uphold institutions), compared to others' view (often anti-institution). I have tried to reconcile these differences, to see the pros and cons of any given institution and stand against it if need be, and uphold it where it is useful.

    Valuing physical security is something I have thought a lot about as well, and I too have found myself in less than ideal relationships just because it was somebody who said he'd take care of me (but ultimately didn't). As long as I've got somebody to love, somebody who will be there at the end of the day, I'm golden. I have worried because I am also an enneagram 2w3, and so particularly prone to becoming an enabler. I need to love and be loved, and I need to be needed (but don't want to need anything in return, though of course I do). But I've come to see that just being loved isn't enough - I also need to love the person back for who they are and not just the security they offer!

    Thanks again for your thoughts! Give an ESFJ high-five to your relative for me.


     
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