This is a discussion on Ask an ESFJ a question within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by Mr.Adrian Thanks! No, we went towards a relationship. We had sex, but after the 1.5 months not ...
Hi I'm not so keen on posting my question here, but if an ESFJ/ISFJ would be willing to message me to answer it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
I have two questions for you (and for some reason I feel myself here as an alien on another planet):
1. What are your references when you want to think seriously about something abstract, e.g. Human Mind?
2. Do you hate people when they outsmart you in public?
(The second question is really important for me, personally)
@Talee_eh I'm on mobile so please excuse any typos and for mentioning rather than quoting since it is easier
1. My reference is whoever I'm talking to about it (since I don't really think about that sort of thing unless someome brings it up in conversation). I have to bounce thoughts off of people and get their help in clarifying what I'm even talking about. Or if I'm thinking about it on my own then ai reference a past conversation I had with someone about it. Does this make sense? I wasn't sure how well I understood the question. I avoid the abstract and will always try to twist it into something that makes tangible sense.
2. No, unless they're a jerk about it. If it's at my expense, like making me the butt of a joke, I will resent them for it as I don't like being publically humiliated. But if they just realized something that I didn't and they're not a dick to me about it then I don't care. Being outsmarted doesn't affect me but being teased about it is what would upset me.
1. I'm totally with Suntide on this one. My go to is always other people first. When it comes to abstract things, I usually go to my INTP husband before anyone else (for obvious reasons). We definitely have different ways of solving things as my go-to is usually to talk to other people who may be more of an expert in the subject and hear what they think. Definitely not his go-to.
2. Hmmm... no, definitely not hate at all. It doesn't really bother me unless they're being mean about it (which honestly rarely / if ever happens). I think I can hold my own pretty well in intellectual conversations but I think for me I get uncomfortable when I feel like someone is trying to show off or make someone else in the group not feel good about themselves. Or when I feel like the person is getting too deep down the rabbit hole and losing the group's interest. Those things annoy me more... basically when people can't read the crowd. Or when Thinker types try to act like the only true "facts" in life come from logic and that there's no room for emotional logic... so basically discrediting things that are important to others just because it doesn't feel right to them.
Since you mentioned #2 was important to you personally it makes me wonder if you feel like maybe you do this sometimes to other people since you're an INTP (I know, totally speculating here...). I know my INTP husband early on when he was younger would think he's just speaking normally / the truth and it ended up stepping on a bunch of toes without him really getting why. Over the years he's been able to figure out a more delicate way to approach having those conversations in groups. There's a way to bring intellectual conversations to all sorts of people without coming across as "outsmarting" someone.. instead it's more like showing you're interested and curious to learn more about why people believe what they do without basically telling them their idiots for believing that. I think anytime someone is asking themselves if someone might hate them for outsmarting them then they probably should have approached that conversation differently to begin with.
1. If I'm thinking about something abstract, I might think about something I've read on the subject, or I will try to come up with a real world example that I can work off of. For example, if I wanted to think about poverty in the USA and how it's affecting school children, then I would think about actual children I knew who have been affected, what people around me have said in the past about poverty and their opinions, and maybe an article I read on the matter (although I don't retain facts well, so this is usually a vague rememberance). Then I would try to verablize my thoughts, or maybe make a diagram on paper or write journal style about this concept. I find it hard to keep track of my train of thought and the concept at the same time, so this is something I might do to help me think about it.
I also like talking to someone about an abstract concept, especially if I'm with someone else who I deem to be well versed in the subject. I basically get to ask them questions, and they give me answers, and then I can form questions off of their answers. This is really good if its over a topic I have little to no experience of, or haven't thought about before.
As to what abstracts I think about, I don't usually. I focus on my life, how I can help people around me, etc. But I am interested in certain topics, like school (as a teacher). So if I decide it's an important topic that I should know about that will help me in some concrete way, then I will put in some effort to learn about it and form my own thoughts about it.
2. Do you mean in a debate setting? Cause I don't do debates lol. As long as they don't rub it in, or they aren't trying to make me appear dumb, I don't really care. I'm a big supporter in giving credit where it is due. If they are trying to shame me/publicly humilate me, however, then I would be pretty upset and would probably hold a grudge for a very long time.
Y'all wanna be friends?
Why are you and ISFJs the best types?
Also where do you like to spend your free time (as in, outside of work/school)?
Years ago when I was in college, I had an awesome ESFJ friend (in Socionics terms, probably ESE-Si). After undergrad, I moved and we only stay in contact sometimes. He is busy. He was always very smart, the kind of guy who could have studied anything he wanted to, and he loved plants, so he chose botany. He completed his PhD in botany about 3 years ago (we graduated from undergrad in 2013 so he did it pretty fast, actually). He was a direct entry PhD. That kind of smart.
He was wonderful, but we only talk occasionally now. We live far.
I would like to find another friend like him. I understand not all ESFJs are going to be the same, he obviously had some wonderful characteristics that are NTR (not type related).