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This is a discussion on ESFJ Chit Chat within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Hi @ Suntide Yeah my Skyscraper list is quite literally the various Skyscraper buildings I want to visit. I know ...

  1. #71

    Hi @Suntide

    Yeah my Skyscraper list is quite literally the various Skyscraper buildings I want to visit. I know the CN Tower isn't really a proper building as such, but I had it on there anyway.

    I just got back a few hours ago from a 5 day vacation in the mountains a couple hours north of where I live. My grandparents have a place up there in a small forest neighborhood that they live in full-time during the summer.
    That sounds amazing! I love going to remote a log cabin in the woods with scenic walks. I know what you mean though about coming home. Doesn't seem to matter how much I enjoy a holiday, its always good to get back. Out of interest, what mountains was it? I'm trying to increase my geographical knowledge of the USA at the moment beyond the East Coast.
    Sophi and Suntide thanked this post.

  2. #72

    @orion83uk I think it's called Quartz Mountain? I had to look it up because I wasn't actually sure! My grandparents have had that cabin for almost as long as I've been alive so I've been going there once a year or so for most of my life and never really wondered what mountain it was, strangely enough! I guess Quartz Mountain makes sense as a name because there's TONS of quartz all over the place in that forest. It's in Arizona. I posted a couple landscape pics I took there in another thread if you're curious what it looks like!

  3. #73

    Hey guys! I'm back too! Was gone for that big family reunion trip. @Suntide , remember when you asked me to report back on how it went? Well... it was difficult again with my ESTJ father-in-law (). Literally, within hours he made some passive aggressive (maybe just aggressive?) comment to my INTP husband that he hasn't shown him enough respect for years.. ugh! Literally like the last thing I wanted to hear after flying forever with little kids looking forward to a family reunion.

    Fast forward a few more days and he and I had our moment. So after taking it for days and just brushing things he does off...I finally couldn't take it anymore (<-- you know how far you have to be pushed as an ESFJ to get there...not to be annoyed, that's easy...but to then do something about it in public...gah!). So basically, he cut me off repeatedly as I was talking about something very important to me. And I don't mean just like butted in and then stopped and apologized when he noticed but kept talking anyway. No... it was like I'm talking and he just tried talking over me and wouldn't stop. At first, I would stop and just let him have the floor but this time I was in the middle of a super interesting idea I was sharing and since he's hogged the floor like 95% of these family nights, I was just over it. So I did my form of protest: I just didn't stop talking when he tried talking over me. Commence one of the most awkward moments ever.... So I'm talking...he butts in and starts talking over me... I keep talking...he just shouts louder... this goes on for what feels like an eternity (probably 20 seconds). I give up. Stare at him in disbelief. Stand up and walk away to get some water. He mumbles under his breath that he thought that was stupid but gosh, sorry anyway (not a real apology...more like a mocking). So my INTP husband stands up for me and is like dude, you totally cut her off three times. ESTJ flips out. INTP says if you're not sorry just don't say it then. ESTJ gets up, face red, comes towards my iNTP husband and shouts in front of the ENTIRE group of adults "I'M NOT F#%*ing SORRY!!!" ...........storms off.

    Soooo yeah...massively uncomfortable. I'm sure you all get this, but I replay this moment and I'm like should I have actually said something or done something differently but honestly I feel like this silent protest of staring at him and then getting up to get a drink was my own kind of triumph / protest. I know that sounds ridiculous to other personality types I'm sure (like my INTP who just goes for it...) but I'm proud of myself for making it clear it wasn't okay with me. The rest of the trip he pretty much just ignored me and my husband, which was super mature....

    We had another moment, when he woke up one morning and decided he wanted to change all the family's + kids' plans and do the activity he wanted to do with everyone that day. It super annoyed me that we had all made plans for the week, discussed it the night before again to confirm and told the kids, and then just because he felt like it he announced he was changing all of it. I can be okay with plans changing, I mean thats life, but it was just the way he did it too. Like I'm the top of the hierarchy so you all will do as I say, no questions asked. So of course INTP asks a question or two about the change and maybe we can shift other things around to accommodate others who wanted to do the original plan etc.... this made the ESTJ not happy at all. He shut that down. No questions allowed (<--you can guess how much my INTP husband loved that....). So in the end, we just decided we were done playing by his rules and decided to keep on doing the original plan with our kids and other family members who wanted to do the original plan... so I think that bothered him that we "fractured" the family in that way and didn't hand over all power to him to call the shots...but we're all adults here and this is everyone's vacation so I think all voices should be heard.

    Ugh, so just stupid stuff. I don't really know what's going to happen moving forward. I feel like we're at a point where my INTP husband just needs to flat out talk to his dad but then their relationship just has never been good, you know? "Talking" is not going to end well between them... Like ESTJ dad doesn't get his son is an INTP so just takes it all so personally when he's not like a mini-ESTJ, you know? Hard when my husband's whole family is basically STJ...So mom and older brother play by dad's rules but my husband doesn't. ESTJ also doesn't care about academics at all and INTP is really into it + philosophy (shocker...) but there's no way he can bring up any of the things that really matter to him around his dad. Just sad to see the disconnect. His dad just wants him to come outside and build things with him or do to-do list menial type tasks and it literally kills my INTP husband internally to where he just can't do it anymore. He's over playing the game.

    I don't know what the future looks like for these reunions...but I do know that living under one roof with his ESTJ dad and several families in an AirBNB for a week is tough... just unfortunate because the rest of us all get along for the most part, but the ESTJ just constantly does annoying stuff that affects the group.

    Anyway.....
    @orion83uk , totally go change the thread name to whatever you want! Never thought it'd catch on this long but I really enjoy just catching up with you all!
    Last edited by SummerRoads; 07-13-2019 at 10:23 PM.
    Suntide thanked this post.

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  5. #74

    @SummerRoads Ugh! Sounds like a super old school nightmare. Unfortunately people like that are just heavily unlikely to change at this point in their lives. I guess the best you guys can do is just brush him off and stand your ground (but he won't make it easy...) I hope the rest of your trip was fun and that no one got too upset over the conflict. (Even when I'm NOT personally involved in a conflict like that, just being around it and witnessing it makes me super upset!) And yeah I know exactly what you mean about how far an ESFJ has to be pushed before they'd actually risk causing a scene in public... OMG that takes a lot. It's truly baffling to me how some people can be so dismissive of the social atmosphere and others' feelings and be so quick to create conflicts. How often do you guys have these reunions?
    SummerRoads thanked this post.

  6. #75

    So we do these big ones like every year and a half. We'll meet up sometimes during the year but in smaller groups like the grandparents fly to visit just our family but that usually goes a ton better since it's on our turf a bit or just because it's smaller groups. I think when the ESTJ gets all his kids and their families together he can get like über-charged on the control front of things + being super old school anyway + no one ever really challenges him but instead just let's it wash over them because we all kind of walk on eggshells around him...

    And yeah Suntide, I TOTALLY get what you mean about how even if you're not involved in the conflict just being around it is uncomfortable. Totally! That's why I'm usually like the last person ever to want to be involved in anything but after past reunions my husband and I were just like you know, we're adults too and we can also have a say in things... (at least in our minds..lol. Changing reality is much harder). So yeah, meeting every year and a half almost makes it more frustrating because 1) you don't see each other that often so you're like "Should I just suck it up for this week or do I stand up for myself?" and 2) When things happen you now have a whole year to have to see what the next one will be like...like there's no real resolution ever to the conflict, you know? <-- which I can't stand. His side of the family doesn't really talk about uncomfortable things but more pretends like it doesn't happen so there's that...

    Kids have a great time though. And they're all good people even the ESTJ, he just tries to lead with a heavy hand and no tolerance for any viewpoints that differ from his own. Just wish he could see how cool his INTP son is and take an interest in getting to know him better but oh well. Have been trying to think of how to make the trips better. INTP thinks maybe separate cabins (but then his mom will be upset that we're not all together) or shorter trips of just a few days (but then flying far away for just 2-3 days is tough) or ??? who knows... INTP really doesn't want to go anymore but I guess I hold on to the thought that there has to be a way to make it work...we'll see. There is a part of me that feels like if we keep up this trajectory of wanting to stand our ground more at these visits and it just keeps creating conflict, then that sucks for the others there in the group too so then is it better if we just don't go, you know? But then it's like, he's the one that's being a jerk so I don't get why we should not go to be with everyone... just complicated group dynamics. Ugh..
    Last edited by SummerRoads; 07-13-2019 at 10:50 PM.
    Suntide thanked this post.

  7. #76

    Hi @SummerRoads

    Sorry for taking so long to respond. No sooner was I back online but was then off again thanks to work + trying to take advantage of the good weather (every moment counts in Scotland in summer haha).

    That whole situation sounds awful! Weirdly, because of how you describe it, I can actually visualise the situation. Sounds like he has real temperament issues!

    So basically, he cut me off repeatedly as I was talking about something very important to me. And I don't mean just like butted in and then stopped and apologized when he noticed but kept talking anyway. No... it was like I'm talking and he just tried talking over me and wouldn't stop....
    I have a special reserved annoyance towards folk who do this, regardless of whether its non intentional, but more so when its deliberately/rudely like this. No where near as bad as that situation, but we have monthly Electrical Team meetings in my work. There is one guy who constantly talks over everyone who tries to raise a point (I've recently started to realise I'm not the only one who is getting pissed off about it). I finally got fed up with it and, like you did in this situation, I now just keep talking when he does it to me. I wish more folk would now too, especially as some folk have some seriously good points to raise as I discovered when I phoned one guy back privately after a meeting one time to ask more about what he was 'trying' to say - currently using his design suggestion in my one of my current projects actually!

    ...No questions allowed...
    That attitude also infuriates me, and can only imagine how much it annoyed your INTP husband!

    So in the end, we just decided we were done playing by his rules and decided to keep on doing the original plan with our kids and other family members who wanted to do the original plan...
    Good! I'm glad you didn't let him get away with it, especially if the original plan was something you both had been looking forward to doing. That is one of those things where, even if it is awkward, you need to just do your own thing and not be 'bullied' into what someone else wants the crowd to do - after all, it's your holiday too!


    Going back to this though:

    I'm sure you all get this, but I replay this moment and I'm like should I have actually said something or done something differently...
    Oh my God, that is so so relate-able! I do this a lot when a 'situation' occurs that has resulted in an argument / fall out within a group etc. I can still be mulling over things like this, in this way, for days after, even though every fibre of my sensible side...and my ISTJ partner...is saying "for God sake just forget it - there is nothing else you could have done!".

    I'm glad you at least had somewhat of a good time though, and that your kids did too.

    ...who knows... INTP really doesn't want to go anymore but I guess I hold on to the thought that there has to be a way to make it work...we'll see.
    I think that is also a very ESFJ thing (in a good way) - hoping that there might be a resolution to it all. As you say though "complicated group dynamics" sadly.

    I'll sort out the name of the thread later. I also really like this thread and really glad you started it :-)
    Last edited by orion83uk; 07-31-2019 at 12:07 AM.
    Suntide thanked this post.

  8. #77

    @SummerRoads @Suntide

    Better late than never on my part to request this. Our thread officially renamed to "ESFJ Chit Chat" and made sticky.

    Cheers again @Coburn :-D
    Coburn, SummerRoads and Suntide thanked this post.

  9. #78

    @SummerRoads ... you went sky diving?!?! How was it and was it a solo jump?

  10. #79

    Hey Orion! It was a tandem jump. No way I was going to do that on my own the first time! I went way back in college with a group of friends. It was fun! Scary at first but not bad during honestly.
    Sophi thanked this post.

  11. #80
    ESFJ

    Oh! How did I just notice this thread? How is everyone's fall going? I am so looking forward to the leaves changing colors!

    I'm currently living overseas as a teacher, and the leaves change super late here. My kids are so ready for winter break lol. (As am I O_O)

    Is it too personal to ask what everyone does? Don't feel like you need to answer! I'm just curious!
    orion83uk and Suntide thanked this post.


     
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