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PerCafe's been bringing me down...

[ESFJ] 
13K views 85 replies 44 participants last post by  RaidenPrime 
#1 ·
When I first came onto PerCafe, I was surprised by how few ESFJs there are on this site. Now that I've been a regular user for over a year, I think I understand why. I've never seen one type get so much unwarranted hate around PerCafe (the ESTJs are a close second). The few times I stumble onto the NT forums, I always end up in an argument with some a**hole who's convinced that ESFJs are the spawn of Satan. Considering ESFJs make up a significant part of the population (particularly the female population), it just makes me shake my head that these people probably know a lot of ESFJs that they like and just don't realize are ESFJs, but they instead choose to focus on the obviously unhealthy ESFJs who are easiest to spot. Even on this forum, the threads about why everyone dislikes ESFJs and the thread about why everyone thinks ESFJs are stupid are immensely popular. I really appreciate when people come here to ask questions instead of just leaving a rant about how they hate their mother/grandmother/aunt.

I guess the point of this rant is, I find that I'm starting to avoid PerCafe more and more, and when I do go on, I usually come away annoyed with the internet. I think I'm pretty close to giving it up entirely. Any other ESFJs feel this way?
 
#56 ·
"Oppressive majority." Oi. Can we not talk like sensors have institutional, systematic power and bigotry over intuitives? It's a type theory with arbitrary divisions.

@rawrmosher I'm not people-centered? :crying:
Like I said, not exactly accurate :p It just gets rid of the stupid idea that 'all SJ's are boring', and the ESFJ's I know are always seem fun.

And I think you'd be more people-centric than an ESTJ, no? :p
 
#58 ·
@Praelatus, one small point here...

The people on PerC are not the boogeymen of your childhood.
There's no way of making that guarantee. You never know who you will meet on PerC, or their past. A bit of cynicism is a good thing when you participate in internet discussion boards.

That might be a little off-track, but I thought it was important enough to mention. My "esfj/9w8 protector mode" coming out :kitteh:



-ZDD
 
#60 ·
There's no way of making that guarantee. You never know who you will meet on PerC, or their past.
It's exceedingly unlikely you'll ever meet anyone you've ever seen or known on PerC. If you mean that they might actually have been bullies at some point - judge them on how they act, not how they might have acted at a younger age.
 
#63 ·
Interesting discussion. I've been reading two books about introversion last week. One is particularly mild and readable, the other had a failry harsh tone. It seems that over where you are (US) both extraverts (sorry, can't get to writing extrovert, which is simply incorrect usage of Latin) and introverts are pretty different in a few ways. I think you'd hold my wife for an introvert when you meet her, and you'd probably guess me to be very autistic. Our whole culture seems to be a bit more withdrawn than yours.
Point is that especially the introverted people, or at least part of them, are feeling very lonely, misunderstood and sometimes even assaulted by a culture that celebrates extraversy as much as yours does. Those people are the most likely of all to communicate through boards like this one. It won't involve face to face contact and they feel free to vent their issues in a way they normally wouldn't. They seem quite a bit nastier than they would be once you meet them.
Another side to this may well be that the average age on this board is well below 30. Most young people are struggeling for a place in society and the fact that introversy is commonly mistaken for a deficiency is not really helping them to earn themselves the places they would fit in perfectly fine. They also lack in development of their tertiary and quaternary functions. I guess I wasn't as nice and forthcoming ten years ago either.

My suggestion: Let them. Many introverts, particularly those who would be INTP or INTJ are the likeliest people to get seriously picked on during their adolescence. They will suffer from low self-esteem as a consequence and they are more often than not (at least the INTP's, of which I am one) quite unable to talk to anyone about that. I wish boards like these existed when I was still in school. All people who were like me hid in their own quiet corners and we never even thought about talking, we wouldn't even know how to make initial contact. Young people in the same situation now at least have a chance to learn that they are normal (though belonging to a minority) and that there are plenty of others to relate to. It will help them grow their self-esteem and to feel understood. They will probably just be nice and forthcoming when they reach emotional adulthood, and you may be proud when you realise that you were part of that growth process.
 
#64 ·
Interesting perspective. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this to me. This is the reason I keep coming back--to better understand people who are different from me because I wouldn't have thought of it like this before. That said, I hope that introverts understand that they're not the only ones who are bullied. I dealt with a lot of bullying too from elementary through middle school. Just being an extrovert in an extrovert-rewarding society doesn't automatically make life easy. I still think we should focus on the individual's experiences rather than just their type.
 
#65 ·
Your reason to be here is the same as mine.
I wouldn't even dare say that you have any advantage. My wife, who's a definite esfj, has her very own childhood burdens, and I respect that. I'm sorry you were bullied. 20 years later, I'm finally able to talk about it, and it still hurts. [hug]
 
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#66 ·
Agreed, it definitely added more perspective to how I view the issue. I still think it's best to not continue the cycle, especially with misplaced projection. This is just like feminism, racism, etc. One group is made the minority, retaliates, and the roles are reversed. It's a repeated theme, and one facet exists because of the other. Ideally this cycle wouldn't even exist, but the world has shown us it's unrealistic to expect otherwise. So why not try to change that on at least this sliver of a cross-population that is this forum? It's an opportunity to really unite a more progressive mentality.
 
#67 ·
Spot on. This whole matter certainly reminds of, for instance, the 'New Atheism', feminism and probably many other ism's about which I know too little to really have a stance. Let's call this one INT-ism and simply watch it unfolding. Introversy is kind of the new thing in the media after homosexuality or being a woman with brains who wants to work were dealt with. It'll blow over after everyone has made the points they deem necessary.
 
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#68 ·
Believe me, ENTJs get plenty of heat, too. A few months back, I made an ENTJ version of the Fukitol meme to cover all the usual bases. :cool:




My college roommate was an ESFJ. Even though college was years ago, we're still friends and still talk. Now, have I met annoying ESFJs? Sure. Then again, I've met annoying people of virtually every type, so this proves nothing.

As concerns ESTJs... believe it or not, I like ESTJs for the most part. They're not particularly inventive and they don't usually think around corners, but they do what they said they were going to do, and they don't screw around. I find these latter traits to be admirable.
 
#70 ·
OP please don't worry about what some ignorant people have to say about esfjs. you're right they probably know plenty in real life that are but only pick out the unbalanced ones (who may or may not be esfj altogether) and put all the blame on them. these idiots need scapegoats to feel better about their own insecurities. i respect the fact that you kept your cool after the entp person (cbf to link the name here) openly insulted you rudely, i would have blown up and snapped right back at him/her. it's these actions that really set you apart on a higher standard, not as a esfj vs other types, but as a human being against another human being.

hope you don't leave pc, we need more of every type here :)
 
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#71 ·
I rather think like people don't come here because they feel like they want to grow in personality but to avoid dealing with "real life". Well, I'm one of those :tongue:
 
#73 ·
Yes, some people go overboard with their complaints. I think that the 'hate' for ESFJs you see is a combination of early fascination with the MBTI's ability to categorize and rationalize behaviors that once seemed unfathomable, and that ESFJs are amongst the most plentiful of all the 16 types (coming in second to ISTJs, if I remember correctly) so if there are unhealthy ESFJs, there's a higher probability that you'll run into them more often (which is unfortunate). About the internet and PerC in general: I must confess I don't particularly relate with what you are saying here. Sure, I have felt instances where I didn't particularly feel welcomed on previous forums, but it's not the forum community's job to make you feel comfortable. Instead it's a great reminder to just ignore the driveling idiots, venture off into the real world and connect with real people, whether it be family, friends or co-workers.
 
#78 ·
I have come and gone a couple of times, it works well for me. It can get a bit boring in may ways for different people. Take a long break and I bet when you return things will look different for you. You are focusing on the negative, even if it is true, I do not know myself if this is so.
 
#79 ·
All this nonsense will change when everyone starts reaching their later 30s. Part of the problem is "generational" vs. MBTI. Most in their 20s continue to grow to get to know their "adult" self, which includes their new environment around them (working, college, friends and relationships.) Once some of you have finally settled down, had kids, work in a job you hate b/c you have to support your family, etc you will realize that we are all in this same routine called life, and what you will seek are friends that respect you for who you are ... not for what makes you similar. Every single MBTI personality type is important, every one brings some unique skill to the world.

Also, because I realize intuitives dominate the internet in general, I tend to stay in the SJ, ISTJ and ISFJ forums and that is mainly because I like to commune with minds who aren't too idealistic (or my eyes would stick to the back of my head from rolling too much.) :D Chin up folks!!!
 
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#80 ·
Once some of you have finally settled down, had kids, work in a job you hate b/c you have to support your family, etc you will realize that we are all in this same routine called life, and what you will seek are friends that respect you for who you are ... not for what makes you similar.
It kind of irks me that you assume 'life' means having kids.
As you know, I never intend to have kids. Enough people in the world anyway.
 
#82 ·
I'm sure the reasons there are very few ESFJ on the internet are that they are not interested in using computers and they're not interested in the internet. I think the INTP hate for ESFJ's is unreasonable and excessive, but I didn't have an ESFJ parent either. I don't hate ESFJ's. I think that ESFJ girls who are reasonably intelligent are extremely sexy and I'm strongly attracted to them. I also have an ESFJ guy friend. He has below average intelligence but I like hanging out with him because he's nice. Sometimes I call him to play video games.
 
#84 ·
I read through this thread and the first couple pages were just some guy raving on about his life being so horrible because he is an intuitive :rolleyes:. Thats sounds so familiar to me, like when I used to joke about how my life was horrible because I was black, or when I used to talk about how my life was bad because God was punishing me for masturbating. I don't think it was until I manned up and realize my life was bad because of my mind-set and because I wasn't even close to doing what I wanted to do in other words my life sucked and it was my fault. Anyway to the OP I give you my sincerest apologies that one of my intuitive brethren have caused a ruckus for no logical reason whatsoever and I offer you 5 Caramel brownies at the next bake sale.
 
#86 ·
I don't hate ESFJ :sad: In fact, one of the reasons I am here is to learn more about sensors so we can all get along and find ways to communicate easier. ESFJ certainly have most of my weaknesses, which all seem to all fall in to Fe. Fe just confuses me, but it also makes the world go round' and function efficiently.
 
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