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PerCafe's been bringing me down...

[ESFJ] 
13K views 85 replies 44 participants last post by  RaidenPrime 
#1 ·
When I first came onto PerCafe, I was surprised by how few ESFJs there are on this site. Now that I've been a regular user for over a year, I think I understand why. I've never seen one type get so much unwarranted hate around PerCafe (the ESTJs are a close second). The few times I stumble onto the NT forums, I always end up in an argument with some a**hole who's convinced that ESFJs are the spawn of Satan. Considering ESFJs make up a significant part of the population (particularly the female population), it just makes me shake my head that these people probably know a lot of ESFJs that they like and just don't realize are ESFJs, but they instead choose to focus on the obviously unhealthy ESFJs who are easiest to spot. Even on this forum, the threads about why everyone dislikes ESFJs and the thread about why everyone thinks ESFJs are stupid are immensely popular. I really appreciate when people come here to ask questions instead of just leaving a rant about how they hate their mother/grandmother/aunt.

I guess the point of this rant is, I find that I'm starting to avoid PerCafe more and more, and when I do go on, I usually come away annoyed with the internet. I think I'm pretty close to giving it up entirely. Any other ESFJs feel this way?
 
#2 ·
Bo-hoo, poor you.

Seeing as there are so few ESFJs around, i'll reply with a response you probably don't even want.

There are more ESFJs than there are NTs at all. You may not be the spawn of satan, i certainly know ESFJs i appriciate, but still you have to understand that being a young NT in a SJ world can be pretty fucking rough. You're part of the oppressive majority. Hell, i'm 25 and just yesterday i had an IRL conversation with an INFJ and an INTJ hating on sensors in general. You guys drive intuitives fucking insane, and you infest the whole world. I'm not saying that you are bad people but you ARE different from intuitives, or rather intuitives are different from you, and that is not always easy on an intuitive, especially not the young ones. Hell, we go around feeling like UFOs most of the time. ;)
 
#9 ·
No, @DiamondDays there's no excuse around it, it's ridiculous.

I don't care how whiney the OP is, people here use the forum to vent about problems they have in the real world with ESFJs and, actually SJs as a whole. They need to take ownership and deal with these issues in the real world, where they actually happen, instead of retreating here to complain about it to people who have nothing to do with their personal issues. People here never complain about ESFJ on the forum, it's always ESFJ in real life - and who ends up having to read it?

@lenabelle don't let stupid comments here stop you from sharing what you have to say about ESFJ, and yourself. It's not you, and it's not that you are a "label." It's that people here are in desperate need of education. This forum is supposed to be a safe place for everyone to talk about type.
 
#16 ·
I don't understand why there must be this type warfare online, as if we're different species or something.
@Leanabelle, It's the nature of people, especially on the interwebz. I think it's as simple as that.

The root of anger is pain and hurt. Sometimes people take their emotional pain and turn it into anger to hide how they feel and to avoid dealing with the problem and to feel some relief. The internet is impersonal and anonymous, which makes it a prime medium for things like you have noticed. If it wasn't you, it would be someone else that @DiamondDays lashed out at. I'm not approving of that type of behavior, but rather pointing it out. I'm guessing he'll see the reference to his name and stop by to give some witty retort.

Regardless, the way to handle it is to avoid getting angry back (you seem to have that ability so I commend you for that). There's no "winning" when this happens. The best you can do is feel sorry for them and move on.

As for your original post... take a break!! There's no requirement to post here. If the amount of frustration is greater than the amount of enjoyment you get from being here then it's probably not worth it. From my experience though, the moderators like @Promethea and @Dearsigmund do a good job of keeping things from getting too un-civil. If you stick it out and concentrate on the threads that interest you (and ignore the haters) I think you'll be fine. Try not to give in to the people who spew hate here. It's really just a cover for something that's going wrong in their life.


You can always PM me if you ever feel it's too much and you just need to vent.

:kitteh:



-ZDD
 
#18 ·
The root of anger is pain and hurt. Sometimes people take their emotional pain and turn it into anger to hide how they feel and to avoid dealing with the problem and to feel some relief. The internet is impersonal and anonymous, which makes it a prime medium for things like you have noticed. If it wasn't you, it would be someone else that @DiamondDays lashed out at. I'm not approving of that type of behavior, but rather pointing it out. I'm guessing he'll see the reference to his name and stop by to give some witty retort.
Did you even read my posts?
 
#17 ·
Intuitives who actually hate on all sensors are unhealthy and have serious grudge issues they're not dealing with. Yeah I got teased pretty bad when I was younger since I'm an Ne dominant, but now when I'm 19, that's in the distant past, and while I'm not too fond of those sensors in particular, the vast majority of you are fine.

Why ESFJ's? Unhealthy ones REALLY stick out, unluckily for you, and the healthy ones are so nice you make easy scapegoats.
 
#19 ·
I believe I'm an intuitive. I was the kid making games where we pretended to be owls and saved the day using our signature hoots. To the boys who played football and the girls who played hopscotch, I was probably a weirdo. No, I was definitely a weirdo. And I didn't have the greatest time in primary school.

Most of the popular kids in my current school are ESFx. I get along with them, but sometimes they can be absolute dicks. Sometimes, they can even hurt my wittle feewings.

Do unhealthy, immature Sensors equate to the Sensors online? Most of the time, no. Am I going to advocate irrational and unreasonable bullying because of my personal experience with some Sensors? Hell naw.

I feel sorry for ESFJs. The majority of them are actually nice, especially the ones online. And they're here to talk and learn, just like us. The unhealthy ones ruin it for them, like @rawrmosher said.
 
#20 ·
I have never seen what you speak of! Not that I am denying it happened but I am slightly astonished that you would blame an entire temperament for this. I think we all receive an equal amount of hate from time to time. In fact I rarely see an esfj mentioned because they rarely come on here. And I don't think it's because everyone has a personal vendetta against ESFJ's, I think the more rational explanation is that ESFJ's tend to become so preoccupied with the real world that they find PERC to be boring.
 
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#22 ·
My maid of honor was an ESFJ. She's also my sister in law and I can tell u she's a great gal. In many ways. No one is perfect but sadly, there are ppl that will always focus on one's imperfections rather than qualities, no matter the MBTI. U just need to learn not to give so much attention to this things ;)
 
#23 ·
Pro-ESFJ here. My Mom is one (self-tested) and I don't honestly know what I'd do without her. Kind, friendly, easy to talk to, loyal, caring, would do anything she can to help you. We disagree on things from time to time (who doesn't) but on the whole she is a great person.

That, and the other ESFJs (self-tested) I've met are great as well. Point being, as mushr00m said, there are bad apples in every type, and of course the bad apples will be really bad. It's not fair to make a blanket judgment on people like that, though - there are so many variables that can play into it, and like you say, anyone can have issues, regardless of type: being an XXXX doesn't mean you get things easier - some things will be, no doubt, but some won't, and probably those things are things which you currently take for granted... I do hope you don't leave - you're an asset to the site IMO (and I've said as much before, even unrelated to this post)
 
#24 ·
I'm just posting to say that I have seen a few rant/poll threads lying around that have really dug into ESXJs in general. I'm sorry you feel PerC is getting you down - I think it's sad to see the arrogant self-superior attitudes that have been thrown around a few threads, indicating that ESFJs (also pretty much any ESXX type have got the receiving end of this) are the most inferior type, etc. It pisses me off to see that and I hope it doesn't drive you away. There's nothing wrong with you.
 
#25 ·
Op, you don't make a convincing case. Especially when you were quick to accuse me of attacking you because your personality type, when I in actuality did no such thing. Not all NT's are what you are describing. I also think you are inadvertently doing exactly what you feel wronged by towards NT's. And to be honest, I have yet to see what you're accusing NT's of doing. I don't know you OP, and you don't know me.


My wife is an ESFJ, an if you are anything like my wife than I'm sure we would get along just fine. Based on my wife's personality, I wouldn't actively resist friendships with ESFJ's. I haven't met anyone as wonderful as my wife and I don't wish to. Of course there are minor aspects that do puzzle me and even frustrate me at times that isn't exclusive to the ESFJ personality as a whole. But the pros outweigh the cons heavily. I don't see ESFJ's as bad people. I'm just hear to let you know that not all of us NT's have something against you. Quite the opposite.
 
#28 ·
Op, you don't make a convincing case. Especially when you were quick to accuse me of attacking you because your personality type, when I in actuality did no such thing.
To be fair, you posted the question, "My wife is an ESFJ. I wonder if anger problems are common with this type?" on a thread that was bashing ESTJs and ESFJs. As a result, I misunderstood the intent of your post, and I already apologized to you via PM.

Not all NT's are what you are describing. I also think you are inadvertently doing exactly what you feel wronged by towards NT's. And to be honest, I have yet to see what you're accusing NT's of doing. I don't know you OP, and you don't know me.
When did I say that all NTs are responsible for this? I thought I made it clear that it's only certain people on this forum that are guilty of this behavior. I don't even remember accusing NTs at all. The NT subject only came up because the first person that responded to this thread was an ENTP who accused sensors of oppressing people like him.

Since a lot of people like you have asked for specific cases of what I've been talking about. A quick Google search turned up these:

Are most ESFJs annoying?
Do ESFJs annoy you as much as they annoy me?
I find ESFJs to be absolutely insufferable
INTJ views on ESFJs
Why do people dislike ESFJs? (The earlier posts are fine, but the later posts in this thread are just rants from people who dislike ESFJs)
 
#27 ·
I feel exactly the same. This thing, with the time, is becoming so boring and frustrating that I'm loosing enthusiasm for this forum. :crying:
 
#29 ·
Oh, the N/S divide, however could I forgot the blantant ignorance of people never having moves an inch past Keirsey and the MBTI letter code.

Some things don't change, may it be on PerC or the world.

Be bothered by it, or accept it and move on.

Personally, I recommend the latter.
 
#35 ·
I personally like all the types- irl. Sometimes it is hard to understand sensors and I have easier times with intuitives. However sometimes it is hard to understand intuitives as well. But sensors are a little harder to understand and can sometimes make me feel like I am from a different planet. However, I have many friends that are sensors and we get along very well. I don't like when people use another type as a scapegoat- all types have traits that may be useful to watch out for, but every person also has so many good traits that at the end of the day it doesn't even matter. That is why people are able to make friends. I am being very general in my post, but I am talking from my experiences. Don't pay attention to what people say about your type because I am sure you are a wonderful person @lenabelle , and anything people say about your type is not necessarily felt by all those around you here on PerC.
 
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#36 ·
My parents were killed by sensors, and I have devoted my life to hunting them down, and killing them and taking back my baby brother that they abducted the night that they shoved sharpened candycanes horizontally through my parents' tracheas.
 
#40 ·
Some things to keep in mind....

First, people can become biased based on bad experiences with a single type. They think of all of the bad traits that the one XXXX had and place them on all people they cross paths with that share the same MBTI. Some people are better letting go of stereotypes and grudges than others. Let them make their judgments.

Second, a large portion of PerC users are unhealthy. They come for advice, to learn more about themselves and the world, etc. Unhealthy people have the internet to turn to for help. Anger is a secondary emotion. It is used to cover up either fear or hurt. When somebody expresses anger, they are actually fearful or hurt. You may feel that they hate your guts and want you dead, but really, they may just be hurt inside. What they are hurt or fearful about may or may not have anything to do with ESFJs or what their post is about.

Intuitive users are more common online than sensors, especially introverts. ESxx people are too busy in real life to spend time on forums, therefore their force isn't strong enough to defend themselves. I hear a lot of complaints about intuitives feeling out of place with the world. Many also complain about their 'SJ parents'. They claim to feel understood and accepted on PerC. Despite what goes online, IRL things are different. Don't get too caught up, these are just ideas. If you don't like something, it's best for you to stay away as somebody has already mentioned, ignore. As many xNTPs would think an SJ would be the very last option of courtship, I find that xNTPs fall in love with xSFJs. Other types get bashed too, such as ENTPs and ESTPs.
 
#41 ·
@lenabelle

staff tries to be vigilant about removing/infracting instances of typism, but its a large forum and we don't see each instance every time.

i'll agree that there are some unflattering stereotypes about types (and some types more than others) that are casually tossed around in online mbti culture. there are types that are stereotyped as more "intelligent" (even though there are clear cases of individuals of that type not even being very intelligent).

intellectualism is valued in online mbti communities for various reasons: its the internet and everyone has an opinion and thinks they're a genius, plus mbti is theoretical and involves abstract thinking. because of the stereotypes of some types being more 'intelligent,' other types will sometimes be the butt of a joke, marginalized, or at worst, you have really ignorant people with a chip on their shoulder looking for a 'type' to blame for their troubles (for example someone whos socially awkward in the workplace resents a person who has it easier, and their ego gets wrapped up in this whole "well i may not be charming like you but i'm a supergeniusmastermind and mbti validates me with these four letters." probably not, but thats what the ego needs to believe.)

i do wish it was easier to educate people on what typology -actually- explains. just because a person has a preference for Fe doesn't mean they can't use their Ti well, they're just more focused, more often on the Fe emotional atmosphere for example. They can also use their Ne, they're just, again, primarily focused on whatever their leading functions draws them toward. there is more going on in there than "sf" "nf" "nt" "sp." we are different combinations of all the functions, and i believe that it takes all the types to play different roles, in order for a society to work. if we had just a society of all "superevilgeniusmastermind introverts" then we would be more limited as a whole.

typology has nothing to do with actual intelligence, and even if some types have an inclination to focus on intellectualism, you will still find that some of them simply aren't that smart to begin with - no matter what their lineup of functions. type is not what you do, but how you do it, and its not how well you do it, either.

anyway, i do see what you're saying, but all we can really do about it is try to educate others on what typology really explains, and handle offensive posts where they say something ignorant about a type.
 
#42 ·
Im not ESFJ but i have felt this way before, i hate getting sucked into debates by people making incorrect assumptions about me and then for some unhealthy reason i always want to stick up for myself, but its pointless, they're idiots if they are assuming all of one type are one way. You are welcome to come to the ISFJ subforum, most people there are generally nice.
 
#45 ·
@Promethea , Oh man, reading your post and then looking at your avatar made me laugh really hard. :laughing:
 
#47 ·
Please don't let those ignorant venting teenagers get to you. I mean, I too get annoyed sometimes by the SJ prejudice of some around here, but the more people assume, the less they know. Heck all those weird stereotypes SJs get make me sometimes doubt my type but I'm really Si-Fe.

And what is this oppressing thing? I never oppressed anyone... Hitler on the otherhand did, as did Stalin, Mao and so is Kim Jong-un doing right now. Unless you bother me, I will not bother you. Dead simple. Live and let live.

My mom is an ESFJ (yes an actual ESFJ and not just because she has a 'nurture role' in my life) and she's a really wonderful sweet lady. And she's so tolerant of other people's bs.
 
#48 ·
I frankly don't like the hate SJs have to experience on here. My sister is a ESFJ and she is a really nice person. I know, I know, N and S don't understand eachother too well but I don't see a reason to start a war over our differences.
 
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#49 ·
@Promethea Do you think the Keirsey classifications tend to do more harm than good in terms of educating people about typology?

I've noticed several members (some of them MOTM) express their dislike of having the forum divided by NT, NF, SJ, SP because it seems to reinforce bad stereotypes (i.e., "NTs are geniuses" "SJs are boring"). I think PerC does a good job of giving each typology theory its own space for discussion, but I feel like Keirsey's presence is more imposing than it should be—but then again, I'm biased because I don't really give Keirsey much credit.
 
#51 ·
I can sympathize, lenabelle. I believe I first found this site through searching for information about ESFJs, and then becoming more and more shocked and saddened that the other types seemed to hate our type so much. However, I've found that the information I've been able to glean about other types and people in general makes me keep coming back for more, so much so I finally got myself an account to be able to join in. It's so nice to find other ESFJs on the internet, too, even if we're in the minority here. You all make me feel like I've found my people! :proud: Don't let the haters get you down, girl! (As an aside, I would just like to add that I adore your icon. It always makes me feel happier whenever I see it. :kitteh:)

Best wishes,
Butterfly
 
#53 ·
Speaking of the temperments, I prefer classifying by communication style:-

ESFP, ENFP, ENTP, ESFJ are all fun loving , people centric extroverts for example.
ESTJ, ESTP, ENFJ, ESTJ are the more ordered, task centred extroverts
INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ are the people centred introverts
INTJ, ISTJ, INFJ and ISTP are the task centred introverts.

Just my two cents, it stops generalisations based on two letters of your type >.< there are tons of flaws here to but still xD
 
#57 ·
I like this, but then, I'm generally interested in communication.

To Lenabelle (sorry if I misspelled that, I'm still getting used to around here): I personally try to see people as they are. Even though irl I tend to say "I don't like people" (only to my friends who laugh when I say it), I really do like people. I'm fascinated by how alike a group can be and all individually unique at the same time.

So, I hope you find some comfort in this forum as I have.

Friends. (Until you cross me and then "Off with your head!") (Sorry, joking here, in a way)

:)
 
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