[lenabelle]

When I first came onto PerCafe, I was surprised by how few ESFJs there are on this site. Now that I've been a regular user for over a year, I think I understand why. I've never seen one type get so much unwarranted hate around PerCafe (the ESTJs are a close second). The few times I stumble onto the NT forums, I always end up in an argument with some a**hole who's convinced that ESFJs are the spawn of Satan. Considering ESFJs make up a significant part of the population (particularly the female population), it just makes me shake my head that these people probably know a lot of ESFJs that they like and just don't realize are ESFJs, but they instead choose to focus on the obviously unhealthy ESFJs who are easiest to spot. Even on this forum, the threads about why everyone dislikes ESFJs and the thread about why everyone thinks ESFJs are stupid are immensely popular. I really appreciate when people come here to ask questions instead of just leaving a rant about how they hate their mother/grandmother/aunt.

I guess the point of this rant is, I find that I'm starting to avoid PerCafe more and more, and when I do go on, I usually come away annoyed with the internet. I think I'm pretty close to giving it up entirely. Any other ESFJs feel this way?

[DiamondDays]

Bo-hoo, poor you.

Seeing as there are so few ESFJs around, i'll reply with a response you probably don't even want.

There are more ESFJs than there are NTs at all. You may not be the spawn of satan, i certainly know ESFJs i appriciate, but still you have to understand that being a young NT in a SJ world can be pretty fucking rough. You're part of the oppressive majority. Hell, i'm 25 and just yesterday i had an IRL conversation with an INFJ and an INTJ hating on sensors in general. You guys drive intuitives fucking insane, and you infest the whole world. I'm not saying that you are bad people but you ARE different from intuitives, or rather intuitives are different from you, and that is not always easy on an intuitive, especially not the young ones. Hell, we go around feeling like UFOs most of the time. ;)

[Inguz]

Bo-hoo, poor you.

Seeing as there are so few ESFJs around, i'll reply with a response you probably don't even want.

There are more ESFJs than there are NTs at all. You may not be the spawn of satan, i certainly know ESFJs i appriciate, but still you have to understand that being a young NT in a SJ world can be pretty fucking rough. You're part of the oppressive majority. Hell, i'm 25 and just yesterday i had an IRL conversation with an INFJ and an INTJ hating on sensors in general. You guys drive intuitives fucking insane, and you infest the whole world. I'm not saying that you are bad people but you ARE different from intuitives, or rather intuitives are different from you, and that is not always easy on an intuitive, especially not the young ones. Hell, we go around feeling like UFOs most of the time. ;)

It's funny how you volunteered to be the poster boy of what the OP speaks of.

[DiamondDays]

It's funny how you volunteered to be the poster boy of what the OP speaks of.

Well, i think she is being unreasonable and whiny, so why not. If she receives crap on here from NTs it's because NTs receive crap from ESFJs ( and other sensors, especially SJs ) IRL all the time. I really don't care how it makes me look, it is just the truth and she should suck it up. If she can't take people telling her she's the devils spawn and if she's feeling weird and unwelcome on PC, well maybe she is getting a dose of what most intuitives experience IRL.

[Inguz]

Well, i think she is being unreasonable and whiny, so why not. If she receives crap on here from NTs it's because NTs receive crap from ESFJs ( and other sensors, especially SJs ) IRL all the time. I really don't care how it makes me look, it is just the truth and she should suck it up. If she can't take people telling her she's the devils spawn and if she's feeling weird and unwelcome on PC, well maybe she is getting a dose of what most intuitives experience IRL.

What is worst, really? You blaming others for your pain and woes or she responding to direct insults? Hmm?

[DiamondDays]

What is worst, really? You blaming others for your pain and woes or she responding to direct insults? Hmm?

I don't, i have no problem navigating the world. Others do and i did when i was younger. No longer though. And i am not saying she isn't being insulted, i just think it is unreasonable to be upset about it in a forum that is heavily intuitive. The nature of this forum attracts mainly intuitives and specifically the intuitives who have been trying to figure themselves and others out. It is not very far fetched IMO to make the assumption that these intuitives are also often the ones who tend to feel alienated by SJ society, that is society in general. To be an ESFJ in these forums without being able to take a lot of crap for being part of the oppressive majority is silly. You are going to be insulted and made to feel like the bad person. It comes with the territory. Suck it up or leave.

[lenabelle]

Well, i think she is being unreasonable and whiny, so why not. If she receives crap on here from NTs it's because NTs receive crap from ESFJs ( and other sensors, especially SJs ) IRL all the time. I really don't care how it makes me look, it is just the truth and she should suck it up. If she can't take people telling her she's the devils spawn and if she's feeling weird and unwelcome on PC, well maybe she is getting a dose of what most intuitives experience IRL.

This is what I hate about PerCafe. This us vs. them mentality that some of the intuitives (like you) insist on perpetuating. You keep referring to SJs as the "oppressive majority". Really? You think we SJs live a charmed life just because we're the majority in the real world. Guess what, we're all people here. I'm dealing with things and you're dealing with things, but there's no point in arguing over whose problems are worse. I'm sorry for whatever SJ wronged you in your life, but rest assured, I'm not responsible for it.

Thank god for people like @Inguz. You are the kind of person who makes PerCafe worth coming back to.

[Inguz]

I don't, i have no problem navigating the world. Others do and i did when i was younger. No longer though. And i am not saying she isn't being insulted, i just think it is unreasonable to be upset about it in a forum that is heavily intuitive. The nature of this forum attracts mainly intuitives and specifically the intuitives who have been trying to figure themselves and others out. It is not very far fetched IMO to make the assumption that these intuitives are also often the ones who tend to feel alienated by SJ society, that is society in general. To be an ESFJ in these forums without being able to take a lot of crap for being part of the oppressive majority is silly. You are going to be insulted and made to feel like the bad person. It comes with the territory. Suck it up or leave.

I'm INFJ. My mom is ISFJ. My father is ESTP. My sister is ESFP. My other sister is ISTP. I like them all, find interesting topics to discuss with them and enjoy the exchange when they can get me a bit out of my own head. It's refreshing. It can get too much, but I'm also an introvert. I don't feel alienated from society. I don't find sensors on generalized stereotypes as oppressive.

On the other hand, is this as a sort of "eye for an eye" retribution to you? It's cute. How about you just suck it up and take some crap for the way you actually have been acting in this thread then?

[Figure]

No, @DiamondDays there's no excuse around it, it's ridiculous.

I don't care how whiney the OP is, people here use the forum to vent about problems they have in the real world with ESFJs and, actually SJs as a whole. They need to take ownership and deal with these issues in the real world, where they actually happen, instead of retreating here to complain about it to people who have nothing to do with their personal issues. People here never complain about ESFJ on the forum, it's always ESFJ in real life - and who ends up having to read it?

@lenabelle don't let stupid comments here stop you from sharing what you have to say about ESFJ, and yourself. It's not you, and it's not that you are a "label." It's that people here are in desperate need of education. This forum is supposed to be a safe place for everyone to talk about type.

[mushr00m]

Well, i think she is being unreasonable and whiny, so why not. If she receives crap on here from NTs it's because NTs receive crap from ESFJs ( and other sensors, especially SJs ) IRL all the time. I really don't care how it makes me look, it is just the truth and she should suck it up. If she can't take people telling her she's the devils spawn and if she's feeling weird and unwelcome on PC, well maybe she is getting a dose of what most intuitives experience IRL.

Projection, much! You make NT's look bad . Luckily, some people know better than to hate on whole temperaments even when good apples also exist. Go and develop some communication skills. Or in other words, grow up!

No, @DiamondDays there's no excuse around it, it's ridiculous.

I don't care how whiney the OP is, people here use the forum to vent about problems they have in the real world with ESFJs and, actually SJs as a whole. They need to take ownership and deal with these issues in the real world, where they actually happen, instead of retreating here to complain about it to people who have nothing to do with their personal issues. People here never complain about ESFJ on the forum, it's always ESFJ in real life - and who ends up having to read it?

@lenabelle don't let stupid comments here stop you from sharing what you have to say about ESFJ, and yourself. It's not you, and it's not that you are a "label." It's that people here are in desperate need of education. This forum is supposed to be a safe place for everyone to talk about type.

Yeah and ESFJ's usually land as the scapegoats as reconfirmed . For those that don't want to make the effort to resolve their own issues irl and then use the forum as a scapegoating platform.