[ESFJ] How do ESFJs feel about transgenders? - Page 2

How do ESFJs feel about transgenders?

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This is a discussion on How do ESFJs feel about transgenders? within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by brittauzenne I personally would not condone changing genders when the world is oozing with much worse issues. ...

  1. #11
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Quote Originally Posted by brittauzenne View Post
    I personally would not condone changing genders when the world is oozing with much worse issues. In fact, being concerned with a sex change when millions of babies are being killed under so called freedom of "choice" shows the flaw in our american 1st world problems. Its extremely disturbing if looked at in that way imo.
    Why look at it that way at all? It almost sounds like you're trying to lump abortion and sex-change together, and I have to say I don't see the comparison. You could as easily lump abortion and choosing to eat artery-clogging food, both could be argued as being bad. I guess they also have a loose connection to human reproduction, but transsexuals can't have babies (to my knowledge), so no danger of abortions there.

    If you ever walked up to a transgender and told them they were selfish for wanting to be different or change their sex because of abortions, I don't think I would be very nice to you. It makes my Ti squirm.
    lolthevoidlol thanked this post.

  2. #12
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Quote Originally Posted by lenabelle View Post
    I think this is largely a cultural and regional thing.
    I definitely expected that to be the case. We're all a product of environment, but the whole "non-objective, weighed against internal values" thing must be especially formed by family, community, in-groups.

    Yes, or am I getting it twisted?

    Quote Originally Posted by lenabelle View Post
    They can interact with LGBT people just fine on an individual basis, but they are very much prejudiced against the group and what it stands for.
    Not to be insulting, but I believe sociology calls this "timid bigotry." (You may not think it is bigotry at all, but you used some pretty charged words "abhor" "prejudiced")

  3. #13
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Brittauzenne, do you perceive them as asking for special treatment, attention, or protection when there are people with so-called "real problems", because I think I can understand that to some extent.

    I don't know if they're asking to be liked though. They are because everyone needs someone to like them or love them to survive, but I think they would be fine if the average person just didn't attack them, berate them, or make them feel inferior (tolerance).

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by brittauzenne View Post
    This is a touchy topic. Im a more traditional person. I also dont understand the whole lgbt thing. It seems like a world all its own...I personally would not condone changing genders when the world is oozing with much worse issues. In fact, being concerned with a sex change when millions of babies are being killed under so called freedom of "choice" shows the flaw in our american 1st world problems. Its extremely disturbing if looked at in that way imo.
    Heck, treating depression in people seems disturbing if you are going to compare it to "millions of babies being killed." Even bothering to go shopping for my groceries and complaining because I might go on government furlough seems selfish and wrong compared to that.

    I think it would be more constructive to evaluate problems each in their own right, and what kind of response/treatment they need. Just because some people are pro-choice is no reason to dismiss all other problems as insignificant. That seems like very shaky ground to me.

  6. #15
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    This is a good example of one of the things that bugs me.

    Someone asks for an opinion and then when people give honest opinions you come back and want to argue about it and put them down.

    You might as well have posted this in the debate forum or added "looking for your wrong opinion" in the title.

    Good job in trolling the ESFJ's. See if you get any more support in your "research"...




    -ZDD
    Lady O.W. Bro, tangosthenes and Choice thanked this post.

  7. #16
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Quote Originally Posted by insultfashioner View Post
    I was curious what you think of transgendered people as a type which purportedly values tradition. I may be modeling a character off of ESFJs for a creative writing project.
    In my opinion, environmental and cultural factors play a much bigger role in determining one's stance on this topic than one's personality traits. It's true that ESFJs value tradition, but I don't find this to be a limiting factor in my life. I would rather have other people be happy and at peace with themselves. As ZDD mentioned, it's not really any of my business what somebody chooses to do with their own body and life. So yes, I would be supportive of family members and friends who do not identify with their sex.

    As for whether children should be educated about transgenderism, I'm not sure I would support it for being taught in the public school system because there's not enough time to go through the current curriculum as it is. Learning can happen outside of the classroom, and I think that's the best way to really learn about controversial topics in general. I took a course that discussed LGBT and sexuality in college, and the discussions we had there were much more enlightening than any similar course that would be offered to children in middle or high schools.
    lenabelle and insultfashioner thanked this post.

  8. #17
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Quote Originally Posted by insultfashioner View Post
    I definitely expected that to be the case. We're all a product of environment, but the whole "non-objective, weighed against internal values" thing must be especially formed by family, community, in-groups.

    Yes, or am I getting it twisted?



    Not to be insulting, but I believe sociology calls this "timid bigotry." (You may not think it is bigotry at all, but you used some pretty charged words "abhor" "prejudiced")
    I'm just pointing out that yes, while ESFJs like tradition and tend to be on the conservative side, we are capable of breaking with that. My parents constantly spout bigoted stuff (yes, I am very much aware that what they are saying is bigotry) about how LGBT people all have HIV and are just trying to be unique by being gay and etc. but I just ignore it and carry on being friends with people of all sexual orientations because I don't give a damn.

  9. #18
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie Devil Duckie View Post
    This is a good example of one of the things that bugs me.

    Someone asks for an opinion and then when people give honest opinions you come back and want to argue about it and put them down.

    You might as well have posted this in the debate forum or added "looking for your wrong opinion" in the title.

    Good job in trolling the ESFJ's. See if you get any more support in your "research"...




    -ZDD
    Gahhh not sure who to agree with here. While you're right that britt is entitled to her own opinions and should be able to express them here without fear of getting attacked for them, the INTPs did point out a major flaw in her argument and I think they're just bringing it up for the sake of curiosity and to get a good discussion going. I know that I would be interested in hearing more on her views just because they differ so greatly from my own.

  10. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by lenabelle View Post
    Gahhh not sure who to agree with here. While you're right that britt is entitled to her own opinions and should be able to express them here without fear of getting attacked for them, the INTPs did point out a major flaw in her argument and I think they're just bringing it up for the sake of curiosity and to get a good discussion going. I know that I would be interested in hearing more on her views just because they differ so greatly from my own.
    It definitely highlights a natural preference in how one formulates and presents opinions, that we might not be aware of otherwise.

    Also, in terms of thread content, one extreme is, "Just post what you think without interacting at all with any opinion," and the other is, "Discuss various opinions and their pro's/con's." Most threads really are in a gray area; they're not meant to be all out surveys, nor all-out arguments.

    I suppose I said what I happened to say because the two ideas seems disconnected to me -- why does abortion have anything whatsoever to do with transgenderism? What I really perceived the point here being is, "I think the United States is selfish, and pro-choice people and transgendered people are two signs of the country's selfishness."

    Anyway, I was just wandering by that first time, I don't want to derail the thread from the ESFJ participants. Those are just my thoughts.
    lolthevoidlol and insultfashioner thanked this post.

  11. #20
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Quote Originally Posted by lenabelle View Post
    I know that I would be interested in hearing more on her views just because they differ so greatly from my own.
    I am interested in hearing her views, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but feel free to challenge my points because I won't get offended. **except if an ENTP kicks over my whole sand castle without asking why I'm building it ;)

    I am trying to galvanize discussion, am I not allowed to be part of it? I work with ideas, so if I challenge your idea please don't take it as a personal attack. It isn't. I am grateful to hear what you have to say, but I don't guarantee to agree with it or not to challenge it.
    Le9acyMuse and lolthevoidlol thanked this post.


     
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