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How do ESFJs feel about transgenders?

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This is a discussion on How do ESFJs feel about transgenders? within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Hm okay. Well ya, I am a more traditional esfj. If I were a mom that had to deal with ...

  1. #31
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Hm okay. Well ya, I am a more traditional esfj. If I were a mom that had to deal with it I would do my best to give my son free reign over his life but somewhere my own beliefs would come up- that I dont think being gay is right or healthy and that they should choose Christ instead, if you really want the cold-cut truth. Its taken time but Im pretty good at not overshooting peoples boundaries. If we're going to disagree I wont push it and I know how to still care about the person while we may disagree completely because you can love from a distance. Maybe a feeler is more prone to seeing things from a judeo-christian perspective, idk. These days it could go either way Im sure though I am very strong in my beliefs.

    Something you may find interesting- I usually dont share my faith here on the forum and usually try to avoid it at all costs because I know that the things I say are controversial.

    So if you plan to make the mom something like an esfj (which its awesome that your interest in mbti is intersecting with your creative endeavors) then you can observe

    1 that i try to withhold anything too offensive
    2 am neurotic by nature (we can blame Ne for that)
    3 a traditional and HEALTHY esfj will care but not be too clingy about things

    maybe that can help you

    also, i work with alot of lgbt people at my retail store and theyre nice to me. i wasn't sure they had any depth from previous observations but of course they do cuz theyre people though alot of the ones i work with seem kind of snobbish and seem like they like to be that way but I usually find it more entertaining than offensive.

    again just trying to add
    if you use a traditional mother, i think big-time writers generally paint faith in an overtly humorous maybe even negative light when it comes to people of faith. what hue do you plan to paint this story in? is it slightly tragic and soulsearchy, understated and indie-ish?
    PrankyButSaintly thanked this post.

  2. #32
    INTP - The Thinkers

    It is dramatic, slighty tragic , and soulsearchy. The mother is a sympathetic character with good convictions and a good head on her shoulders. I won't be painting faith in a humorous or farcical light. I want to write strong, complex characters and dig into what makes them tick.

    Thanks for coming out of your comfort zone on the subject and sharing with me.

    And I'm obnoxiousy obsessed with MBTI so I really wanted to weave it into my writing : )

  3. #33
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Quote Originally Posted by brittauzenne View Post
    I feel the way I feel because I DONT believe people are born gay. The main issue Im addressing is that American laziness where people wont point out what the real problem is. Among all the issues, why should there even be a group about sexuality coming up to the politics stand when there's a country to run, it makes no sense to me. I think what I think, WHY i think what I think is not the discussion. I think if a person really thinks about it, I do make sense its just that people like to keep clouded minds but thats the exact thing I hate and I see right through it. Abortion is DISGUSTING and it should not be mandated that is equally DISGUSTING. Gay people can be gay, no one is stopping them but I feel like the average person will think that just because they get mocked (just like everybody else) that they deserve some special place...NO.

    America needs to get its priorities straight and Im tired of its foolishness AND I speak on it. Thats too bad.

    To add further clarity (for those seeking truth in the first place)

    I am Christian.
    Abortion is the one thing that has done this nation in, mark my words.
    It is the ominous cloud that hangs over this nation.
    The minute a country inverts on itself like this one has, its over, because it no longer protects its own lives. My faith causes me to be very fiery about this issue. I understand people dont get it but its the truth. Theres nothing else to add because Im being very clear.

    Also I dont come here to rant or be ambiguous I take everything pretty seriously WHILE i am enjoying myself, I am also serious. The OP wanted a view from an esfj, I know I dont have conventional views and I figured I would pitch in.

    I will not respond directly to anything remotely snarky or backbiting Im not here for childsplay. If you want to learn I gave you my view to take at face value. Thank you.

    To sum up my answer- I think lgbt is a waste from a POLITICAL standpoint. I do not think issues of sexuality should be in politics nor should anything to do with peoples morals be in the governments agenda. People need clean water housing help with jobs IMAGINE if people got their silly little problems out of politics things could be run much more effeciently but lets be honest America has been digging a deeper and deeper hole for itself for quite some time and now you have things happening like Trayvon Martin why? Because it has taken entirely too long for someone to stand up for whats right. We dont need cynicism, money for abortions, more gay rights we just need people to simply do the RIGHT thing.

    Issues like lgbt, abortion and all that bring problems up to the forefront that are not the governments issue and now people cant even see that killing babies like chickens is NOT NORMAL???? Its the worst thing Ive ever seen.
    Wow, there is a lot here that I do not agree with (we are pretty much opposites in our beliefs), but I respect your right to have and express your own opinion. You're a Christian, I'm an atheist. You seem very conservative, while I'm a bleeding heart liberal. :P Abortion is something I also feel very strongly about, but I am staunchly pro-choice.

    Here is some evidence that you can't make assumptions about people based on their types, since even though we are both ESFJs, we have wildly different answers to the question OP posed. Thanks for explaining more about your views. I found it very interesting.

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  5. #34

    Quote Originally Posted by brittauzenne View Post
    This is a touchy topic. Im a more traditional person. I also dont understand the whole lgbt thing. It seems like a world all its own...I personally would not condone changing genders when the world is oozing with much worse issues. In fact, being concerned with a sex change when millions of babies are being killed under so called freedom of "choice" shows the flaw in our american 1st world problems. Its extremely disturbing if looked at in that way imo. Im not really on the lgbt side of the fence at all. And Im not sure if lgbt are really that happy as someone mentioned happiness. Its a new way of doing things but I say nothing was broken so what is all this lgbt stuff about. I see it as unnecessary alot of the time.
    I wish to express my own opinion on this. I am taking an online Social Psychology course right now and one lesson concerned the transgenders. I was pretty touched when I saw people completely struggling with their identity. Like a person who thought was a girl for a long time and who could not settle for normal relationships because nothing about himself/herself made sense. However, when the person found the SO, confidence came in. She became a he after a surgery and now things have become better. At least it has helped him found a balance, a capacity to understand who he really was.

  6. #35

    Quote Originally Posted by insultfashioner View Post
    It is dramatic, slighty tragic , and soulsearchy. The mother is a sympathetic character with good convictions and a good head on her shoulders. I won't be painting faith in a humorous or farcical light. I want to write strong, complex characters and dig into what makes them tick.

    Thanks for coming out of your comfort zone on the subject and sharing with me.

    And I'm obnoxiousy obsessed with MBTI so I really wanted to weave it into my writing : )
    Very nice initiative. I admire your courage to dive into this. A very complex subject.

  7. #36
    INTP - The Thinkers

    It is complex, and shouldn't be treated any other way.

    However, I do not think that being transgender itself has to be inherently complex. People's attitudes about it make it complex. I think being a self-accepting transgender is simple, a pure nature. People may strongly disagree with this, and that's where complexity enters. It's the attitudes and self-discovery that make it complex, but I can easily wrap my head around someone not feeling their body or sex fits who they feel they are. I don't doubt the sincerity and totality. But that's only me, and we don't live in my world.

    Basically, if a sexual female told me "she" felt "she" was a boy, I would not try to convince him otherwise personally. Who could be a better authority than he himself. I know many people may not agree with my summation, and I want to represent their voices too.
    lolthevoidlol and Klaro26 thanked this post.

  8. #37

    Quote Originally Posted by insultfashioner View Post
    It is complex, and shouldn't be treated any other way.

    However, I do not think that being transgender itself has to be inherently complex. People's attitudes about it make it complex. I think being a self-accepting transgender is simple, a pure nature. People may strongly disagree with this, and that's where complexity enters. It's the attitudes and self-discovery that make it complex, but I can easily wrap my head around someone not feeling their body or sex fits who they feel they are. I don't doubt the sincerity and totality. But that's only me, and we don't live in my world.

    Basically, if a sexual female told me "she" felt "she" was a boy, I would not try to convince him otherwise personally. Who could be a better authority than he himself. I know many people may not agree with my summation, and I want to represent their voices too.
    You have a point. Yes, one may argue what "complex" really is, but even though we may have divergent opinions on what this word means, I guess we both agree that these people should not be seen as "monsters" or anything along those lines. As I said, after learning more about transgenders at my online Social Psychology course, I am more aware of what they really are. And I was touched by their stories, their identity problems. And even though some may argue that religion doesn't agree with this, that we weren't born like this, something that a transgender said in a clip still sticks with me:
    "I can't imagine a God who doesn't love me for who I am."

  9. #38
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by brittauzenne View Post
    ... I dont think being gay is right or healthy and that they should choose Christ instead
    Forgive me for being nosy, but how is that a dichotomy? There are plenty of Homosexuals in the USA who also happen to be Christian.
    How Many Gay and Lesbian Christians are there in the U.S.? | Bible-Thumping Liberal
    LGBT-affirming Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #39
    ESFJ - The Caregivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    Forgive me for being nosy, but how is that a dichotomy? There are plenty of Homosexuals in the USA who also happen to be Christian.
    How Many Gay and Lesbian Christians are there in the U.S.? | Bible-Thumping Liberal
    LGBT-affirming Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    There's one Christianity. The genuine Christianity does not affirm homosexuality at all and is clear on that. You can't be liberal and Christian at the same time. The tenant of the one true faith of Christians is that Christ died for sins while we were still sinners. A person perceives this graciousness and lets go of sin and takes Jesus as their righteousness rather than "trying to be a good person" because that does not exist because we have all fallen short. Homosexuality would fall under sexual immorality in Christianity and is something God died for. Not for it, nor is any truly saved, reborn Christian. Christianity cannot be combined with other faiths and there is nothing "interfaith" or compromising about it.

    If you have anymore questions about the tenants of Christianity, not "interfaith" versions of it
    I recommend visiting simplyheavenlyfood.tumblr.com - Christian woman from Hawaii answers any questions anyone would ever have about it. Theres tabs on the side to search specific topics. @Snow Leopard
    PrankyButSaintly thanked this post.

  11. #40
    Unknown

    I don't understand what you mean by "interfaith" in this context? I'm not from America and I don't fully understand what you mean by "liberal" either (the definition of liberal and use of the word in other countries appears to be quite different to how it is used in the USA).


     
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