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This is a discussion on Ask an ESFP within the ESFP Forum - The Performers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; Originally Posted by sparkles Help her understand that the right therapist isn't going to do that. The therapist is there ...

  1. #51

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkles View Post
    Help her understand that the right therapist isn't going to do that. The therapist is there to hear HER not the parents. If that doesn't happen she needs to get a new therapist. I'm all for getting the ESFP someone to validate her, especially if it does not come naturally in the family. Feelers need that more than they realize.

    Not necessarily. It can be framed in terms of limitations - the parents are limited by their own quirks.
    Not sure I'm entirely clear on the question "do we ever hit a point"... I can take a lot of crap but if I feel unduly mistreated I will either back away or stand up for myself. I imagine it would be harder to stand up to parents when you rely on them for material things.

    If you are worried that your efforts to get her help will increase the family strife, well, that might happen. But when you're healing dysfunction it's like it stirs up all the extra sludge as you're clearing it out - so greater problems temporarily can be a sign of good things.

    If you're worried about mom misreading you, frame it as different approaches. Like I can see what she needs, and you are on a different wavelength and that is no one's fault. She needs to find someone who makes it okay for her to be different from you in this way. No one is to blame here.

    Not sure how helpful I've been. The overall question was a little vague or abstract, and I don't answer those well!
    Thank you. My question was indeed vague. It was almost ranty. I was so worried for this girl last night and I needed to hear thoughts on how to handle this.

    I know I had a suicide attempt at 17, and that's how I handled not receiving the validation I needed. This girl's energy is like bright sunshine and I don't want to see her go down a dark path like I did. I don't know her real breaking point.

    How does depression look on an ESFP? How have you handled any depressive moments?

  2. #52
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrasputin View Post
    Thank you. My question was indeed vague. It was almost ranty. I was so worried for this girl last night and I needed to hear thoughts on how to handle this.

    I know I had a suicide attempt at 17, and that's how I handled not receiving the validation I needed. This girl's energy is like bright sunshine and I don't want to see her go down a dark path like I did. I don't know her real breaking point.

    How does depression look on an ESFP? How have you handled any depressive moments?
    I'd say it gets really intense, but also passes fairly quickly. We just can't DO negativity the way others can. It interferes with our m.o. of life so much, that it will either come on quickly and give us tunnel vision or be pushed away repeatedly to focus optimistically.

    I may add more later but that's all I have for now.

  3. #53
    Unknown Personality

    @pinkrasputin
    Compare her situation to the one you were in, does she have more support? Does she experience less overt abuse and neglect? How much of this is your own triggering for your adolescent self? Compare the specifics to see how realistic your concerns are right now. Let her know she can come to you confidentially in a crisis.

    Warning signs that ESFPs are down in the dumps, we change moods drastically. We go from carefree to stressed about everything. We get cynical. We use Ne to assume the worst. It's just about impossible to miss when an ESFP is down. I'm not talking about temporary gloominess due to a bad day. We can hide that. But something bad enough to warrant intervention, you're pretty likely to see it clearly.
    pinkrasputin thanked this post.

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  5. #54

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkles View Post
    @pinkrasputin
    Compare her situation to the one you were in, does she have more support? Does she experience less overt abuse and neglect? How much of this is your own triggering for your adolescent self? Compare the specifics to see how realistic your concerns are right now. Let her know she can come to you confidentially in a crisis.

    Warning signs that ESFPs are down in the dumps, we change moods drastically. We go from carefree to stressed about everything. We get cynical. We use Ne to assume the worst. It's just about impossible to miss when an ESFP is down. I'm not talking about temporary gloominess due to a bad day. We can hide that. But something bad enough to warrant intervention, you're pretty likely to see it clearly.
    TBH, I think her abuse is way worse than mine ever was. I've never been abandoned by a drug addict mother and forced to live with an angry, controlling dad and mean and controlling stepmother.

    I'm very worried about the ESFP being abused in relationships because of her father.

    If I were her, I would have attempted to off myself or ran away to live on some strange commune by now. I just don't think she even knows she is worthy or values herself that much to be angry or frustrated.

    They give her the worst room in the house, seriously treat her like Cinderella, her father says really nasty things to her, she sneaks out and I'm not even sure her parents care.

    I've told her about Planned Parenthood and how she can get on birth control on her own. The boys she dates are uneducated and gross. And they get extremely upset with her if she doesn't call them back the minute they ask. They are loser- control freaks from bad side of town. She doesn't have self worth. She hasn't been taught she has value.

    I have to admit, I would like it if she did become at least angry or depressed because then I'd know she knew she was worth more. My daughter tends to bring this side out in her peers. She is like a little advocate in that way. And then usually my daughter and the friend (in this case the ESFP) come to me to validate feelings and to come up with a course of action.

    I've told the ESFP girl that if she ever thinks she needs to run away or gets so mad in life, she is always welcome to come to my place. Although we both know her parents are so controlling, they might never let her go.

    And yes, I'm biased. I feel like this little girl is the little feeler child I never had (my daughter is ENTP and incredibly hard core). I'm not around many feelers in my romantic or family life, so there is a connection there. The ESFP is so adorable. She gives me hugs whenever she thinks I'm down or stressed. Lol. My daughter would never do that. If only her parents appreciated what they have.

    I really don't think her parents are going to like her to develop her own voice. They are too busy keeping her down.

    I'm not sure at her age if anyone would have been able to keep me down as long as she's been put down. I think her parents have chosen to control someone who is easy to control and what they perceive as a "push over". This is because she doesn't complain or dwell on the negative. They think she's a ditz with her head in the clouds who cant tie her own shoes if they didnt scream at her to do it. She also can't "see" how she is manipulated or pushed around.

    The only thing I see is that she is extremely slow to follow the orders that are barked out at her. I don't get it. She knows she is going to get yelled at for not doing a chore or for not doing it in a timely matter, but the girl still drags her heels. I'll remind her "just do it now, before they have a chance to yell at you for it". Do you think her slowish resistance is some form of passive aggression? I just thought of that. And if so, I'm actually proud of her. Like her resistance of chores or doing them half-assedly is where she is taking her power?

    And if that is the case, it's not going to work for her in the long run. Because that just fuels her parents' fires that she is a "dumbshit" who can't do anything right. It also doesn't help that she is repeating 9th grade. Maybe her not caring about anything right now other than boys is either her depression or passive aggression?

    Argh. How long did it take for you to learn to speak up and set boundaries with people? I didn't develop that hardcore until I was 29 in therapy. Before that, I just kept moving away from people who hurt or controlled me.

  6. #55
    Unknown Personality

    The slowness with chores is probably passive aggression. ESFP is not naturally good at setting boundaries. I still have trouble if I see the person as having some kind of power in the relationship. If I don't respect them or care, I can be very assertive. If I respect them or want their approval, I can still be assertive but it takes conscious effort - based on personally valuing healthy relationships.

    And my form of boundary-setting is still a bit sweet and vulnerable. Rather than snarking I usuall would say something like, "It hurts my feelings when you speak to me that way." If this is happening because of abuse, then that might not change anything. I would hope the parents just don't realize what they are doing.

    If she failed in school it could be due to living out the belief of being a failure. If the feedback from parents is as bad as you say. Emotional abuse can create perfectionists and it can also create self-sabotage.

    She may be one of those girls who tries to get into a relationship early, maybe even marriage early, as a way to leave home. Not sure, not enough info. I think therapy would be good for her at any rate.
    pinkrasputin thanked this post.

  7. #56
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I must apologize in advance if this comes off as aggressive, because I'm pretty annoyed at an esfp right now, but I know deep down that it's not a big deal, so don't worry, k?

    I have a friend(?) that I've known for about 3 years now. For the past several months his communication tends to consist of randomly calling me and then ignoring me for weeks. And then being like oh dude where you been? and then proceeding to ignore me again. Thing is, these random call/texts don't even last an entire conversation! I'm introverted and easily distracted, so I can go a while without communication, and I try to be nice, friendly, entertaining, easy-going... but I feel like either his attention span is retarded or he's just trying to prove that he can still get a reaction out of me, like maintaining a harem or something. The last one went like so:

    Him : 5:04: Kate!
    Me : 5:12: Hey dude what up?
    Him: 5:23: Nothing! Haven't hear from you in a whole while...
    Me: 5:25: ye olde not-much-going-on... :P
    Him: 5:26: Working hard or hardly working?
    Me: 5:28: If you count completely dismantling my stove in order to clean it, then yes. Ha. Hows your summer going?

    And... th-th-th-that's all, folks. This kind of conversation is getting old and I feel like just never answering the phone again when he calls or texts me.

    edit: I realize that I didn't actually ask a question... just stated the problem. I guess I'm looking for: Do you recognize this behavior pattern, would you act like this, and what would it mean if you did?

    And any other thoughts that fly through your mind.
    Last edited by HamsterSamurai; 08-02-2012 at 08:49 AM.
    yay thanked this post.

  8. #57
    ESFP - The Performers

    Quote Originally Posted by HamsterSamurai View Post
    I must apologize in advance if this comes off as aggressive, because I'm pretty annoyed at an esfp right now, but I know deep down that it's not a big deal, so don't worry, k?

    I have a friend(?) that I've known for about 3 years now. For the past several months his communication tends to consist of randomly calling me and then ignoring me for weeks. And then being like oh dude where you been? and then proceeding to ignore me again. Thing is, these random call/texts don't even last an entire conversation! I'm introverted and easily distracted, so I can go a while without communication, and I try to be nice, friendly, entertaining, easy-going... but I feel like either his attention span is retarded or he's just trying to prove that he can still get a reaction out of me, like maintaining a harem or something. The last one went like so:

    Him : 5:04: Kate!
    Me : 5:12: Hey dude what up?
    Him: 5:23: Nothing! Haven't hear from you in a whole while...
    Me: 5:25: ye olde not-much-going-on... :P
    Him: 5:26: Working hard or hardly working?
    Me: 5:28: If you count completely dismantling my stove in order to clean it, then yes. Ha. Hows your summer going?

    And... th-th-th-that's all, folks. This kind of conversation is getting old and I feel like just never answering the phone again when he calls or texts me.

    edit: I realize that I didn't actually ask a question... just stated the problem. I guess I'm looking for: Do you recognize this behavior pattern, would you act like this, and what would it mean if you did?

    And any other thoughts that fly through your mind.
    No he's just another of these guys I'm so sick of who cant text you back! gosh, why do they even do that!?!?!?!
    HamsterSamurai and yay thanked this post.

  9. #58
    Unknown Personality

    @HamsterSamurai

    (Awesome id btw!!!!!)

    No way... Don't recognize that. Reminds me of friends who try to chat with me on facebook but don't say much and it's obvious they are talking to one or two other people. Your options include not answering, or calling him sometimes (if you want to talk to him).

    I would be too annoyed. I'd be like oh sorry my phone was on silent
    HamsterSamurai thanked this post.

  10. #59
    ESFP - The Performers

    Quote Originally Posted by HamsterSamurai View Post
    I must apologize in advance if this comes off as aggressive, because I'm pretty annoyed at an esfp right now, but I know deep down that it's not a big deal, so don't worry, k?

    I have a friend(?) that I've known for about 3 years now. For the past several months his communication tends to consist of randomly calling me and then ignoring me for weeks. And then being like oh dude where you been? and then proceeding to ignore me again. Thing is, these random call/texts don't even last an entire conversation! I'm introverted and easily distracted, so I can go a while without communication, and I try to be nice, friendly, entertaining, easy-going... but I feel like either his attention span is retarded or he's just trying to prove that he can still get a reaction out of me, like maintaining a harem or something. The last one went like so:

    Him : 5:04: Kate!
    Me : 5:12: Hey dude what up?
    Him: 5:23: Nothing! Haven't hear from you in a whole while...
    Me: 5:25: ye olde not-much-going-on... :P
    Him: 5:26: Working hard or hardly working?
    Me: 5:28: If you count completely dismantling my stove in order to clean it, then yes. Ha. Hows your summer going?

    And... th-th-th-that's all, folks. This kind of conversation is getting old and I feel like just never answering the phone again when he calls or texts me.

    edit: I realize that I didn't actually ask a question... just stated the problem. I guess I'm looking for: Do you recognize this behavior pattern, would you act like this, and what would it mean if you did?

    And any other thoughts that fly through your mind.
    So, wait, the problem is that he didn't respond to your last question on a text message?
    HamsterSamurai thanked this post.

  11. #60
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    This probably doesn't help much, but just giving her a place to be herself with yourself and your daughter, where she can relax, have fun, be herself, know that her uniqueness and her strengths are seen and appreciated; I'd imagine that all of that would go very far, especially for a dominant-Se sensor, in helping her keep steady and slowly put her situation into perspective, realizing how bad things really are in her home environment. It's tricky because you never want to undermine the parent-child relationship, they'll do that on their own as she gets older and realizes how things really are, but giving her a safe space is in no way undermining. She'll figure out the rest in time. Also, I hear ESFPs absolutely thrive on positive attention and appreciation (if not overdone, of course). You probably have plenty of opportunity to boost her spirits and slowly build self-worth that naturally wants to be there but has never been given a chance to grow. Let her know sometimes what you see in her. She sounds like a real sweetheart and she feels connected to you. You probably do so much for her already just by being there and being yourself. (If you're anything like the ENFP in my life, you do.) Do you tell it to her straight that those guys are being control freaks with her, that that's wrong, and how real relationships are based on love and respect? Has she seen movies or heard stories about healthy friendships and romance? Does she dream of being treated right by a guy? Is there any way you can plant the seeds of those kinds of dreams? Girls are dying to hear this stuff.

    I probably don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not a mother, I just love kids, and I adore ESFPs, and I feel for this girl.


     
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