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This is a discussion on ESFP vs ENFP? DId i mistype?? within the ESFP Forum - The Performers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; Originally Posted by The Big S ok..thanks..a lot...still confused but you have no clue how much I appreciate you, honestly ...

  1. #21
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by The Big S View Post
    ok..thanks..a lot...still confused but you have no clue how much I appreciate you, honestly I love you XD...ESFP it is
    Haha. Dude, I love this about EFP's.

    You guys are warm and friendly lol and make usually cold bastards like myself all warm and fuzzy inside

    If my hunch is right about your Ni weak spot, (my own inferior Ni is second-guessing itself now), you will continue to connect the dots and eventually see the bigger picture instead of the myopia you're in right now. :)
    Falling Foxes and The Big S thanked this post.

  2. #22

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big S View Post
    Ok so one main thing that strikes me is, yes everything I said sounds like a sensor and yes I am probably a sensor, but my grip was triggered by moving. I was constantly stuck in the past, and nothing could match up to the past. i was heavily nostolgic. I think I was also in an Fi-Si loop.....like does this indicate inferior Si, or is it just what happens after a move for some people. For a few months, I would just imagine the past after school and get depressed about how my new area sucks
    It could be. I do believe we also use all 8 functions, not everyone agrees with that. I think its very difficult to type ourselves whilst we are unhealthy. I tried typing myself during depression, I realised it was pointless and that it was better to type myself based on moments that I was healthy or the kind of person I strived to be because that was the person that made me feel more me.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big S View Post
    @Falling Foxes @Jawz
    just one more thing.....it was said in the description of Inferior Si that it was characteristic to become obsessed with a fact or two, and get into list making for future plans.
    I would have thought that was a weaker use of Te. I've always looked at Te as my fact checker and my organiser. Te is a doing function, both Si and Ni are observing.

    I did all of these- I became obsessed with learning ways to decrease my cortisol and increase testosterone, and spent about 5 hours a day reading articles and observing my body, and would make endless lists of diets, workout plans, hobbies, and all that, to raise my testosterone levels (which sounds dumb XD)...is that characteristic of an Ni Grip? I also had various obsessions like it was to the point i was disgusted to be near another human because all i could think of were germs....Those were some main things that characterized that "grip experience. Is that also inferior Ni...Like I see all the things pointing to ESFP...but i keep second guessing myself. I love visual thinking, and during conversation, if someone is talking, I will imagine what they are saying etc..I have always been known for my creativity. This lead me to bias myself as an enfp for so long..its just weird to think I may be ESFP. Like ok a moment ago i was really sleepy, and thought of a friend who never sleeps. I visualized him staying up late, but still having energy, and me just feeling dead, and him partying..all in 4 seconds at this happens to me a lot...I do not think I have a strong grasp of functions, so small things like that lead me to doubt my type sorrry if this might be frusterating, but thanks a alot for the help.. @The Big S
    I'm unsure if this is Ni or not. There is definitely some Te in there along with something. Inferior Si can lead to hypochodriac like attitudes. Ne would start getting paranoid about all the possibilities about certain side effects and assume the worst but the difference is that it's very inactive. It'll let that paranoia fester and not do anything about it. Te would look for a solution to prove it right or wrong. Ti quite enjoys learning all these facts and figures too though (but don't make me go into Te v Ti, Jawz probably has a better idea here).

    I should reiterate that SFPs are creative people (there's a reason why they are called artists or performers). They have imagination. Being a sensor doesn't mean that you can't dream things up, it just means that most of the time you are grounded, instinctual and conscious of what actually is by default (which I envy, you have no idea).

    Another trick to typing yourself is to be aware that you are going to be the most conscious of the functions that you have to actively turn on. This can be anything from your secondary to your tertiary and inferior. Your dominant function is often your blind spot because you don't have to be conscious of turning it on because even whilst in grips, it's still ever present and influences everything you do. You seem quite conscious of moments that you utilise intuition because you know when you turn it on but you don't seem to be consious of when you use sensing at all. Now that could just be because you don't have a good grasp on what sensing means or it could be because it's harder to recognise that function within yourself.

  3. #23

    Quote Originally Posted by Falling Foxes View Post
    It could be. I do believe we also use all 8 functions, not everyone agrees with that. I think its very difficult to type ourselves whilst we are unhealthy. I tried typing myself during depression, I realised it was pointless and that it was better to type myself based on moments that I was healthy or the kind of person I strived to be because that was the person that made me feel more me.



    I would have thought that was a weaker use of Te. I've always looked at Te as my fact checker and my organiser. Te is a doing function, both Si and Ni are observing.



    I'm unsure if this is Ni or not. There is definitely some Te in there along with something. Inferior Si can lead to hypochodriac like attitudes. Ne would start getting paranoid about all the possibilities about certain side effects and assume the worst but the difference is that it's very inactive. It'll let that paranoia fester and not do anything about it. Te would look for a solution to prove it right or wrong. Ti quite enjoys learning all these facts and figures too though (but don't make me go into Te v Ti, Jawz probably has a better idea here).

    I should reiterate that SFPs are creative people (there's a reason why they are called artists or performers). They have imagination. Being a sensor doesn't mean that you can't dream things up, it just means that most of the time you are grounded, instinctual and conscious of what actually is by default (which I envy, you have no idea).

    Another trick to typing yourself is to be aware that you are going to be the most conscious of the functions that you have to actively turn on. This can be anything from your secondary to your tertiary and inferior. Your dominant function is often your blind spot because you don't have to be conscious of turning it on because even whilst in grips, it's still ever present and influences everything you do. You seem quite conscious of moments that you utilise intuition because you know when you turn it on but you don't seem to be consious of when you use sensing at all. Now that could just be because you don't have a good grasp on what sensing means or it could be because it's harder to recognise that function within yourself.
    hey do you think its possible that I developed my inferior function a lot? like I remember before depression and stuff I think I was your typical Se user, but like nowadays I tend to space out and go on a lot of tangents invloving my life visually...but I dont feel happy...do u think my heavy use of Ni is bad, or is it developed and I am just feeling depressed in general? Do u get what i mean?
    Jawz thanked this post.

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  5. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big S View Post
    hey do you think its possible that I developed my inferior function a lot? like I remember before depression and stuff I think I was your typical Se user, but like nowadays I tend to space out and go on a lot of tangents invloving my life visually...but I dont feel happy...do u think my heavy use of Ni is bad, or is it developed and I am just feeling depressed in general? Do u get what i mean?
    Developing your inferior function is a good thing. I think depression made me a stronger person as ironic as that may souond, it really forces you to reflect on things more and see things from another perspective. Perhaps both ESFPs and ENFPs "suffer" from unwarrented optimism.

    I can't say what the cause of your depression is. It could be a number of factors, generally being reliant on your inferior function is a consequence of depression and not the other way around. It's hard to say whether you are using it in an "unhealthy" way but from the points that you have made about Ni that I have picked out all sounds like healthy stuff. You should know the difference if it is hurting you or others or making you come across as immature.

    Reconnecting with Se would possibly help though.
    Jawz thanked this post.

  6. #25
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by The Big S View Post
    hey do you think its possible that I developed my inferior function a lot? like I remember before depression and stuff I think I was your typical Se user, but like nowadays I tend to space out and go on a lot of tangents invloving my life visually...but I dont feel happy...do u think my heavy use of Ni is bad, or is it developed and I am just feeling depressed in general? Do u get what i mean?
    It's definitely not bad at all. Introspecting and dreaming of possibilities is a very healthy thing to do for ESP's and in fact, it's even more important to take more time than you're compelled to since future planning isn't always easy, the brain needs more time to develop a stronger plan than one that gives a quick/easy fix.

    I don't know how old you are, but I think I mentioned either in this thread or in your thread in the ENFP section that it is imperitive that ESP's go through some sort of crisis and break in flow in order to access and develop the less used aspects of the brain. We need to hit a roadblock in life in order to find ways to break through them - but once we do, we're better for it. I believe that the advice "what doesn't break you, makes you stronger" is most applicable to us ESP types because we tend to be so rooted to pleasure-seeking and living in the moment that we don't always acknowledge our mistakes and short-comings nor plan the future effectively. Life isn't a moment-to-moment snapshot. What ESP's need to learn is to embrace what is and expound/built around a strong foundation and pay attention to all the cracks like Si and Te doms typically do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falling Foxes View Post
    Developing your inferior function is a good thing. I think depression made me a stronger person as ironic as that may souond, it really forces you to reflect on things more and see things from another perspective. Perhaps both ESFPs and ENFPs "suffer" from unwarrented optimism.
    This is absolutely true. This I believe is the nature of Pe overall. In my case, I tend to bury whatever negative feelings I have and problems I see in life (job, relationship etc) under the rug. Time being the healer can also become the poison over time because it can help you stop feeling the negative emotions without curing the disease - making the next collapse worse and so on - growing like a cancer inside slowly.

    I can't say what the cause of your depression is. It could be a number of factors, generally being reliant on your inferior function is a consequence of depression and not the other way around. It's hard to say whether you are using it in an "unhealthy" way but from the points that you have made about Ni that I have picked out all sounds like healthy stuff. You should know the difference if it is hurting you or others or making you come across as immature.

    Reconnecting with Se would possibly help though.
    The big thing about inferior Ni is that it is compelled to look for the one big reason inside or outside of oneself that caused everything. It's not always just one reason, but the way the mind works is that it tries to synthesize as much as possible into one over-arching theory or concept to explain all that went wrong so therefore the solution is also "Ok, this one thing caused everything, therefore if I changed this one thing it will fix everything else". Practically, this could be hyper-focus on health, could lead to breaking up with someone, leaving a job on a whim etc - but it may not always be the right solution because identification of the problem/disease continues to be a blind spot throughout the introspection.

    While it's important for an Se-user to remain busy during a funk/introspective period, there is something to be said about luck and fate that have a role to play in helping us come back on course. This is why I see a lot of ESFP types (in particular) that either continue to remain in their funks, or take some drastic measures in attempts to fix everything.

    I'm not a soothsayer. I don't have solutions. All I have is the analysis I did on myself over the years. I got lucky in meeting someone here that allowed me to start over (another ESP desire ... if we can just start over, we'll be able to do everything right THIS time). ESFP and ESTP types are the ones that pack up their bags and kids in the car one night and ride across the country with a few dollars in their pockets ... Believing that we can turn everything around if we just got the chance to start new.

    The key however is to learn about ourselves and change ourselves instead of always trying to fight to control/change the environment itself.
    Last edited by SilentScream; 11-20-2018 at 12:34 AM.
    Acadia and Falling Foxes thanked this post.

  7. #26

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawz View Post
    It's definitely not bad at all. Introspecting and dreaming of possibilities is a very healthy thing to do for ESP's and in fact, it's even more important to take more time than you're compelled to since future planning isn't always easy, the brain needs more time to develop a stronger plan than one that gives a quick/easy fix.

    I don't know how old you are, but I think I mentioned either in this thread or in your thread in the ENFP section that it is imperitive that ESP's go through some sort of crisis and break in flow in order to access and develop the less used aspects of the brain. We need to hit a roadblock in life in order to find ways to break through them - but once we do, we're better for it. I believe that the advice "what doesn't break you, makes you stronger" is most applicable to us ESP types because we tend to be so rooted to pleasure-seeking and living in the moment that we don't always acknowledge our mistakes and short-comings nor plan the future effectively. Life isn't a moment-to-moment snapshot. What ESP's need to learn is to embrace what is and expound/built around a strong foundation and pay attention to all the cracks like Si and Te doms typically do.



    This is absolutely true. This I believe is the nature of Pe overall. In my case, I tend to bury whatever negative feelings I have and problems I see in life (job, relationship etc) under the rug. Time being the healer can also become the poison over time because it can help you stop feeling the negative emotions without curing the disease - making the next collapse worse and so on - growing like a cancer inside slowly.



    The big thing about inferior Ni is that it is compelled to look for the one big reason inside or outside of oneself that caused everything. It's not always just one reason, but the way the mind works is that it tries to synthesize as much as possible into one over-arching theory or concept to explain all that went wrong so therefore the solution is also "Ok, this one thing caused everything, therefore if I changed this one thing it will fix everything else". Practically, this could be hyper-focus on health, could lead to breaking up with someone, leaving a job on a whim etc - but it may not always be the right solution because identification of the problem/disease continues to be a blind spot throughout the introspection.

    While it's important for an Se-user to remain busy during a funk/introspective period, there is something to be said about luck and fate that have a role to play in helping us come back on course. This is why I see a lot of ESFP types (in particular) that either continue to remain in their funks, or take some drastic measures in attempts to fix everything.

    I'm not a soothsayer. I don't have solutions. All I have is the analysis I did on myself over the years. I got lucky in meeting someone here that allowed me to start over (another ESP desire ... if we can just start over, we'll be able to do everything right THIS time). ESFP and ESTP types are the ones that pack up their bags and kids in the car one night and ride across the country with a few dollars in their pockets ... Believing that we can turn everything around if we just got the chance to start new.

    The key however is to learn about ourselves and change ourselves instead of always trying to fight to control/change the environment itself.
    I felt a little similar though for my solutions but perhaps from a different perspective. I knew that something was wrong so something had to change but instead of saying "it's because of X" I was feeling blind, I didn't know what it was and I needed distance to work it out. So I did the impulsive run away from everything thing. I think most Ne-doms aren't this reactive usually and that does make me seem like a Se user a little but like I said, it was for a different reasoning. Pe is about taking in the environment (whether physical or abstract) so I think Pe-doms are more likely to think that changing the environment in a drastic way is their only solution. Changing our perspective does really make a difference, even if it helps us realise we made a mistake or finally work out what the problem was.
    Jawz and Acadia thanked this post.

  8. #27

    @The Big S
    @Jawz and @Falling Foxes explained everything really well, but I figured I'd throw my own perspective in as I'm an xSFP.
    I recently spent a *lot* of time in the grip.

    Until I got my thesis draft back, I spent lot of time in my head, once in a while to the point that I felt like I lost sight of myself. I was trying so hard to visualize and plan for my future -- that I would be a wildlife veterinarian and open my own clinic and "what are the steps I need to take to make this a reality" sort of thing -- without checking in to see how I felt about it all potentially skipping right on past the Fi in my stack. When I'm not suffering through school, I'm different, always looking for the next interesting thing. I pursue the arts. I play guitar. I play sports. I am restless. I get friends together to go rock climbing or hiking or surfing or snowboarding. There's a marked difference, and I'm already a lot healthier now that I know I'm taking a break from strict academia for a couple of years.

    When healthy, my low-Ni comes out in curiosity about the meaning of life, the universe. I read books about Buddhism -- reading one rn by the Dalai Lama - but can be critical and dark when unhealthy. It can be 'catastrophic' thinking; eg - we all have to die one day - how much time do I have left to accomplish the goals that mean the most to me? When I was younger, I wrote a book about this to try and better develop my own convictions.

    When unhealthy, it's more like "gotta do everything I possibly can to get where I want to be before it's too late" and "time is running out". but all of it was in my head. It's also weak in the sense that I have to get an edited draft out to my committee in three hours and did I start it yet? nope, I'm distracting myself instead.

    Dunno if that's relatable but hey.

    Also, this statement by @Jawz really resonated w me

    While it's important for an Se-user to remain busy during a funk/introspective period, there is something to be said about luck and fate that have a role to play in helping us come back on course. This is why I see a lot of ESFP types (in particular) that either continue to remain in their funks, or take some drastic measures in attempts to fix everything.

    I'm not a soothsayer. I don't have solutions. All I have is the analysis I did on myself over the years. I got lucky in meeting someone here that allowed me to start over (another ESP desire ... if we can just start over, we'll be able to do everything right THIS time). ESFP and ESTP types are the ones that pack up their bags and kids in the car one night and ride across the country with a few dollars in their pockets ... Believing that we can turn everything around if we just got the chance to start new.
    It's true to me. And it's what I do. For the most part, my xNFP friends don't exactly do this. Some move around but most have dreams, plural, and most have stayed closer to home. They relish their multiple career options and don't want to start over. Not really. Usually one option doesn't work out, they'll explore another. They're looking to maximize the number of options that'll work out for them so that they always have options. I stick to my one stupid choice and zigzag my way across the US, honing my skills in the hopes of becoming a leader in the wildlife community.
    Jawz thanked this post.

  9. #28
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by Acadia View Post
    When healthy, my low-Ni comes out in curiosity about the meaning of life, the universe. I read books about Buddhism -- reading one rn by the Dalai Lama - but can be critical and dark when unhealthy. It can be 'catastrophic' thinking; eg - we all have to die one day - how much time do I have left to accomplish the goals that mean the most to me? When I was younger, I wrote a book about this to try and better develop my own convictions.

    When unhealthy, it's more like "gotta do everything I possibly can to get where I want to be before it's too late" and "time is running out". but all of it was in my head. It's also weak in the sense that I have to get an edited draft out to my committee in three hours and did I start it yet? nope, I'm distracting myself instead.

    Dunno if that's relatable but hey.
    I don't relate to the Fi part about true to your values and how you feel about something. For me it's different because I'm Ti/Fe (ESTP) and for me it's mostly about my plan being the most viable and best option that I've rationalised. My reasons are mostly based on an internal system of good and bad. These are the ways it could be good. These are the ways it could be bad. I assign a subjective criteria for what's good and what's bad and jump in. Sometimes I will overlook my own analysis and just jump right in believing that "it'll take care of itself" and I'll "fix it as and when necessary".

    The relateable part in there to me is that I am a nihilist when it comes to life over all and I came to that conclusion after an especially turbulent 6 years between 2005 and 2011 where I was almost entirely locked up inside my head.

    I concluded a few years ago that life is essentially meaningless and therefore in order to complete my journey from the beginning to the end I have to give myself things to do. There is no purpose except the purpose I give myself and in my case that purpose has been to experience in depth all the small experiences I can given my current state, finances and limit myself to expanding the depth of experience of marital life.

    When healthy, I don't look inward at all. I'm pretty much entirely external. With people. With family. With friends. Doing things I enjoy doing.

    When unhealthy, it's catastrophic exactly as you described. Life sucks. Everything sucks. There's no point. It's all going to end anyways. The universe starts collapsing. It's apocalyptic. I tend to curl up inside a cocoon of small and simple pleasures. The world seems chaotic instead of the playground I know it is. I always have a little bit of hope that things will get better though if I just get myself through this hard time.

    Of course, in extreme cases, I have simply bought a ticket and flown away .. but that did not work out for me. It made things worse. No future direction or plan whatsoever is so much worse for an ESXP and it doesn't become obvious until the flight itself has failed completely.
    Last edited by SilentScream; 11-20-2018 at 11:16 AM.

  10. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawz View Post
    There is no purpose except the purpose I give myself and in my case that purpose has been to experience in depth all the small experiences I can given my current state, finances and limit myself to expanding the depth of experience of marital life.
    I feel this. Minus the marital life part. Haven't got that and won't for a while.

    When unhealthy, it's catastrophic exactly as you described. Life sucks. Everything sucks. There's no point. It's all going to end anyways. The universe starts collapsing. It's apocalyptic. I tend to curl up inside a cocoon of small and simple pleasures. The world seems chaotic instead of the playground I know it is. I always have a little bit of hope that things will get better though if I just get myself through this hard time.
    Yes. Especially the little bit of hope that things will get better bit. Trying to tackle school, I've adopted the mantra 'it's not forever, just for now' but sometimes I'll cycle into 'but all that we have is the present what matters now if the present doesn't matter?' and ultimately babble on about nothingness until some relative or friend of mine forces me outdoors with my dog and a skateboard and I'm human again.

    Of course, in extreme cases, I have simply bought a ticket and flown away .. but that did not work out for me. It made things worse. No future direction or plan whatsoever is so much worse for an ESXP and it doesn't become obvious until the flight itself has failed completely.
    mm I can't tell if it makes things better or worse when I leave for someplace new. I think both. Better in that I get clarity, novel experiences, new places, new people. worse in that I tend to have a mess to clean up whenever I get home six months later - because being a wildlife biologist with limited work available, I do tend to end up home at some point. and also worse in that I'm constantly leaving people I grow to care about. I don't typically get attached, but I usually make a few close friends out on the road, and as a result pretty much go through a series of mini-breakups, leaving me to evaluate my transient lifestyle when I leave. at the end of the day I just feel odd and a bit like I don't belong anywhere, even if I'm satisfied with the new experiences. (but eh, I think my 4-fix is showing )

  11. #30
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by Acadia View Post
    and ultimately babble on about nothingness until some relative or friend of mine forces me outdoors with my dog and a skateboard and I'm human again.
    I've finally figured out that I cannot allow myself to break the flow at all. While I hate routines and repetitive experiences, I've come to accept that I can exert a little bit of influence each time to make just different/novel enough.

    I too have gone through phases where I needed to be pulled out of the house by someone. Not anymore though. I'm married to an introvert so I have to be the one who's almost always proactive about leaving the house to do stuff.

    I don't typically get attached, but I usually make a few close friends out on the road, and as a result pretty much go through a series of mini-breakups, leaving me to evaluate my transient lifestyle when I leave. at the end of the day I just feel odd and a bit like I don't belong anywhere, even if I'm satisfied with the new experiences. (but eh, I think my 4-fix is showing )
    ^Such is the Se life. I don't think it's that different for all of us. I too bond with people and when it's time to move on it's a nice round of good byes and those people tend to leave their impression on me forever. One of my goodbyes lasted a good 30 minutes of my best friend at the time just bawling his eyes out and recording a lengthy message on video cam for me. I miss him. Like I miss all of my good friends. But the thing I look at is that I got to share the time I did and the memories are still very real to me.

    The thing is, for every person I've left behind I've found someone (or a few more) new people so to me, I get to experience the newness of getting to know knew people over and over again and that in and of itself is a good feeling.
    Acadia and The Big S thanked this post.


     
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