[ESFP] INTP female falling for ESFP male - Am I doomed?

INTP female falling for ESFP male - Am I doomed?

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This is a discussion on INTP female falling for ESFP male - Am I doomed? within the ESFP Forum - The Performers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; I have a question to ask an ESFP! I am a female INTP (Enneagram 9w1), dating a male ESFP (Enneagram ...

  1. #1

    INTP female falling for ESFP male - Am I doomed?

    I have a question to ask an ESFP!

    I am a female INTP (Enneagram 9w1), dating a male ESFP (Enneagram 2w3). I absolutely adore this man, and haven't felt this much chemistry since dating an INFJ. I feel very calm and safe around him, and I can totally be myself without judgment. Also, I really love the care and selflessness he brings to the relationship as an Enneagram 2. I dated an ESFP once who was an Enneagram 7 and completely full of himself and very superficial and inattentive. But the ESFP traits really shine through my current guy's 2ish behavior and compliment really well. This is my issue, though: I want to be married, he is divorced and doesn't want to remarry. Common sense tells me that it cannot possibly work out, nor can it end well. Therefore, why should I waste my time with someone who is not interested in giving me what I want? His whole thing is, "Who cares? Carpe Diem! Let's just enjoy the moment and see how things unfold." <--- As an INTP, I am completely dissatisfied by this.

    It's all very frustrating because I really enjoy his company, his energy, his love, all of it. But I don't think it makes practical sense to continue to get my heart involved with someone who does not have the same romantic and lifestyle goals as myself. I tried breaking up with him earlier this week. I explained my case thoroughly. He both understood and agreed with my points. But he also admitted that he cannot change who he is. And then of course because of our amazing chemistry, my sincere desire for him, and his infectious charm, he was able to woo me and win me over again with his love.

    What should I do? End it once and for all, or continue to fall into his love trap and hope for the best....?



  2. #2
    ISTP

    Quote Originally Posted by enneagram9 View Post
    What should I do? End it once and for all, or continue to fall into his love trap and hope for the best....?
    That's really up to you. You outlined the choices that you have, now it's time to pick one and live with the consequences.

  3. #3

    Hey there! I'm an ESFJ married to an INTP and I'm here to say that a long-term relationship to someone totally opposite of you will be challenging enough without the stress of that person not even wanting what you want. Obviously, totally up to you but if you know you want to be in a committed long-term relationship that ends in marriage, then he doesn't sound like the guy for you. He's clearly told you what he wants and what he doesn't and from what I know about ESFPs, if he doesn't want to be tied down then he's not going to do it or if he feels guilted into it / it's not going to end pretty. Also, drawing it out longer after you know you want someone who wants to be married is not going to make this decision any easier for you.

    I think you either casually date and do it for fun without expectations of it leading anywhere or you move on. Chemistry of course is going to be off the chart at the beginning. Give it a couple of years and the energy changes (not saying there's no chemistry but it's less intense and there's more love in the daily kind of things) so I guess I would just say don't let pure chemistry be what you're making decisions on. These little things that you find a little annoying now but still cute are no longer cute anymore once you move in together and get more serious, especially if you feel more invested in the relationship.

    I think you know what you should do and are just scared to. If it doesn't make practical sense to you and you know already that you're dissatisfied with how you know it's going to end, then don't do it. There are other fun and enjoyable people out there who do want to settle down and get married. Or reflect on your own wishes and see if you could be in a 20 year relationship without it being called a marriage. The longer you are with someone who doesn't want to commit, the more chances you miss of meeting someone who would be that person for you. I think you logically know what to do but your emotions are all over the place because of the fun easy chemistry between you in the early limerence phase.
    enneagram9 thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerRoads View Post
    Hey there! I'm an ESFJ married to an INTP and I'm here to say that a long-term relationship to someone totally opposite of you will be challenging enough without the stress of that person not even wanting what you want. Obviously, totally up to you but if you know you want to be in a committed long-term relationship that ends in marriage, then he doesn't sound like the guy for you. He's clearly told you what he wants and what he doesn't and from what I know about ESFPs, if he doesn't want to be tied down then he's not going to do it or if he feels guilted into it / it's not going to end pretty. Also, drawing it out longer after you know you want someone who wants to be married is not going to make this decision any easier for you.

    I think you either casually date and do it for fun without expectations of it leading anywhere or you move on. Chemistry of course is going to be off the chart at the beginning. Give it a couple of years and the energy changes (not saying there's no chemistry but it's less intense and there's more love in the daily kind of things) so I guess I would just say don't let pure chemistry be what you're making decisions on. These little things that you find a little annoying now but still cute are no longer cute anymore once you move in together and get more serious, especially if you feel more invested in the relationship.

    I think you know what you should do and are just scared to. If it doesn't make practical sense to you and you know already that you're dissatisfied with how you know it's going to end, then don't do it. There are other fun and enjoyable people out there who do want to settle down and get married. Or reflect on your own wishes and see if you could be in a 20 year relationship without it being called a marriage. The longer you are with someone who doesn't want to commit, the more chances you miss of meeting someone who would be that person for you. I think you logically know what to do but your emotions are all over the place because of the fun easy chemistry between you in the early limerence phase.
    Thank you for your thoughtful and excellent response. You are absolutely right, about everything. I haven't had much luck in dating in the last year, and it's just so rare to find someone who "gets me." He's an older ESFP, (39, I'm 33) and in my opinion quite integrated and self-actualized. He has done a lot of work since his divorce, is very emotionally evolved, and seems to know what he desires out of life. It's not that he has ruled marriage out completely, it's just that he didn't have a great experience before, and he doesn't want to go through that heartache again, which is fair. At the end of the day, I cannot control what he does and does not want, I can only be responsible for me. The guys I've interacted with have all been duds as of late, and it's just tragic when you find someone who is such a breath of fresh air but whose goals in life do not align with your own :'(. They guys I've encountered who on paper desire to settle down, have a family, etc., aren't always able to see me, all of me, and have both compassion for my shortcomings as an INTP, but also, an appreciation and value for how I am uniquely made. He does. And I don't want to let that go. I don't want to give up the feeling of being valued and appreciated by someone, for being just who I am. I know I am sounding really sappy, but that's really the crux of it. Thank you again for your wise and insightful thoughts on the matter.
    SummerRoads thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    That's really up to you. You outlined the choices that you have, now it's time to pick one and live with the consequences.
    You're right. Easier said than done :(. Logic says to leave, heart says to stay.

  7. #6

    Hi Enneagram 9,

    My heart really goes out to you because it's definitely not an easy position to be in. Especially as an INTP to feel like someone really "gets you" and you can just be yourself. I think if you want to continue this relationship with him then you're going to have to re-examine your own goals and desires in life and see if you could live with them being different than what you originally hoped for. Would you be okay with dating a guy for 15 years and still introducing him as your boyfriend to people? Would you be okay with maybe never having kids? Maybe all those things are negotiable for you if you truly did find the right person. Or maybe all of those things seem flexible to you now but in 5 years you'll resent that you guys are still in the same place in your relationship and don't feel like you're ever progressing towards what you truly desire inside. Since he was married before (maybe with children?) maybe he really doesn't desire to be in that position again, ever. It's not healthy for you (if you were to do this) to hold onto hope that maybe he'll change his mind for you down the road. You have to ask yourself if you could be okay with giving up your own goals out of love for this person or would you feel like there's always a part of you that has a void. That you had to be the one conceding things that you'll never get back.

    I really believe there are many people in the world that we can fall in love with and who are good for us. I'm sorry you had a rough year dating wise but that doesn't mean that this next year will be the same. Maybe try an experiment and see if you can't open up more to other guys you date and let them see you for you instead of holding back (if you are). I just really believe if you know now that your goals and future visions of life don't align then there's no sense in continuing this relationship because it will end with even more heartbreak the longer you two are involved. And the last thing you want is to be in a relationship 8 years down feeling resentment that you missed your baby making years on someone who never really cared about that...as great as he is with everything else.

    I would be really honest with yourself and ask yourself if you aren't projecting things on him due to chemistry... is it really true that no one else "gets you?" Or are you being closed off to others but only let him see the real you? If that's the case, then of course he'll be the only one that gets you because you never truly gave other people a chance. You mentioned you haven't had this much chemistry since dating an INFJ, so that goes to show you are capable of having this much chemistry again with someone else whose goals in life align with yours better. It's not just this ESFP or a lifetime of sadness.

    I obviously can't tell you what you should do since what I know is so limited.... but I'm here to say relationships with opposite types have crazy chemistry early on and have a whole litany of challenges over the years that you definitely can tackle and overcome but BOTH people have to be on the same page and working towards the same goal. Good luck with your decision! (Also, if you want to talk more about ESF* & INTP relationships, you can always message me if that helps at all. I really do feel for you and know it's not an easy decision. Good luck!)
    Last edited by SummerRoads; 02-03-2019 at 10:01 AM.
    enneagram9 thanked this post.

  8. #7
    Unknown

    Yes you are doomed both practically and theoretically.
    You need a messenger to cannot be swayed by his whims, to deliver the last and final goodbye.
    Then you should be like a ghost closing every and all lines of communication.
    Anything less will fail.
    enneagram9 thanked this post.

  9. #8
    ISTP

    Quote Originally Posted by enneagram9 View Post
    You're right. Easier said than done :(. Logic says to leave, heart says to stay.
    I don't see why it's difficult to decide whether to go with logic or with the heart. I understand the internal contradiction that it is causing, but you have to make the choice one way or another, so why don't you just pick one and go with it?

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerRoads View Post
    Hi Enneagram 9,

    My heart really goes out to you because it's definitely not an easy position to be in. Especially as an INTP to feel like someone really "gets you" and you can just be yourself. I think if you want to continue this relationship with him then you're going to have to re-examine your own goals and desires in life and see if you could live with them being different than what you originally hoped for. Would you be okay with dating a guy for 15 years and still introducing him as your boyfriend to people? Would you be okay with maybe never having kids? Maybe all those things are negotiable for you if you truly did find the right person. Or maybe all of those things seem flexible to you now but in 5 years you'll resent that you guys are still in the same place in your relationship and don't feel like you're ever progressing towards what you truly desire inside. Since he was married before (maybe with children?) maybe he really doesn't desire to be in that position again, ever. It's not healthy for you (if you were to do this) to hold onto hope that maybe he'll change his mind for you down the road. You have to ask yourself if you could be okay with giving up your own goals out of love for this person or would you feel like there's always a part of you that has a void. That you had to be the one conceding things that you'll never get back.

    I really believe there are many people in the world that we can fall in love with and who are good for us. I'm sorry you had a rough year dating wise but that doesn't mean that this next year will be the same. Maybe try an experiment and see if you can't open up more to other guys you date and let them see you for you instead of holding back (if you are). I just really believe if you know now that your goals and future visions of life don't align then there's no sense in continuing this relationship because it will end with even more heartbreak the longer you two are involved. And the last thing you want is to be in a relationship 8 years down feeling resentment that you missed your baby making years on someone who never really cared about that...as great as he is with everything else.

    I would be really honest with yourself and ask yourself if you aren't projecting things on him due to chemistry... is it really true that no one else "gets you?" Or are you being closed off to others but only let him see the real you? If that's the case, then of course he'll be the only one that gets you because you never truly gave other people a chance. You mentioned you haven't had this much chemistry since dating an INFJ, so that goes to show you are capable of having this much chemistry again with someone else whose goals in life align with yours better. It's not just this ESFP or a lifetime of sadness.

    I obviously can't tell you what you should do since what I know is so limited.... but I'm here to say relationships with opposite types have crazy chemistry early on and have a whole litany of challenges over the years that you definitely can tackle and overcome but BOTH people have to be on the same page and working towards the same goal. Good luck with your decision! (Also, if you want to talk more about ESF* & INTP relationships, you can always message me if that helps at all. I really do feel for you and know it's not an easy decision. Good luck!)
    Thanks once again for your response. On the contrary, I have been my authentic self with the last several men I have dated. That is why what he and I have feels so special. As I mentioned in a previous post, most men do not understand me and I often pay the price for presenting my most real, authentic INTP self to the men that I date. But when you find someone who has the perfect balance of having compassion for one's shortcomings as an INTP, while at the same time, an appreciation for what makes an INTP unique, it's hard to want to let that go :-/. And again, I believe the Enneagram does come into play here too, as I dated another ESFP before who was a 7, a lot more "showy" and slightly narcissistic, completely lacking in grace and compassion, and that same chemistry/ rapport was just not there.

    Needless to say, dating has been really tough for me as an INTP. That INFJ I referred to was in 2005, 14 years ago! I was 20. I have dated several men between then and now, and only found one other whom I connected with like that, and who accepted me and appreciated all my idiosyncrasies, and that was in 2013. Not sure what his type was.

    Anyway, it seems like a guy who I feel I truly connect with and who makes me feel safe and validated in my personhood comes around every 6-8 years or so :-l. You can see why this has been such a daunting challenge for me, and why I fear giving it up, even if I ultimately do not get the picturesque romantic scenario I was hoping for :(. Nevertheless, I have decided to end things with my ESFP. Your optimism surrounding love has been an encouragement, despite the discord in my track record and history's indication that finding love and acceptance as an INTP female (the most rarest for all female types) is an uphill battle.
    SummerRoads thanked this post.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    I don't see why it's difficult to decide whether to go with logic or with the heart. I understand the internal contradiction that it is causing, but you have to make the choice one way or another, so why don't you just pick one and go with it?
    If "picking one" was easy for an INTP, life would be much easier, trust me. Decision making has always been difficult for me, in all matters, not just head vs the heart. Part of this I think comes from the fact that INs naturally see endless possibilities and can imagine infinite scenarios which can cause us to get "stuck" in our decision making. Another part of it I believe stems from my "9ness" and the fact that Enneagram 9s tend to see all sides of everything, and do not necessarily see any one side as being better than the other. When working at its best, it can really make our mediating and "peacemaking" efforts quite successful, however at its worse (and most often, I would say) it makes it difficult for us to know which decision is in our best interest, because we truly can see all sides indiscriminately, and can be equally convinced that a less than favorable thing is just as good of an option as the more favorable thing, in a way that other Types might automatically disregard what is clearly not in one's best interest in favor of what is. But, that is why input from others is helpful, and why forums like this are important. I have decided to break up with him.
    gte thanked this post.


     
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