[ESTJ] Do ESTJs ever change their minds romantically? - Page 5

Do ESTJs ever change their minds romantically?

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This is a discussion on Do ESTJs ever change their minds romantically? within the ESTJ Forum - The Guardians forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Yikes I'm not an ESTJ but someone has to be honest with you. You seem like a nice guy but ...

  1. #41

    Yikes

    I'm not an ESTJ but someone has to be honest with you. You seem like a nice guy but there are major issues with your ways of thinking. Being "loyal" and "committed" does not entitle you to a relationship with her.

    In my opinion, you are extremely infatuated with this woman. I can understand where you're coming from and I don't deny that you care about her but you're romanticizing her and bordering on nice guy territory (see: https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...Guy%20Syndrome).

    Firstly, I want to point out that bullshit you said about "I honestly believe I can love her better than anyone else." Please never say this again. That is not for you to decide and she deserves better than to be treated like just an object of your desire. You are not the first person to ever love or pine after someone, so get over yourself. Real love is not bought by gifts and being a shoulder to cry on whilst secretly hoping for more. There's nothing wrong with having feelings for a friend- but making such statements even when she has specifically said she does not want a relationship with you is disrespectful IMO and I'm sure she knows what she wants/needs better than you do. She said herself she does not see a relationship with you working out and you can't just force it or jump through hoops trying to make sense of it. She does not want a relationship with you. Full stop.

    The quotes:
    I don't mind if she settles with me, as I know I'm willing to put in the time and effort to make it work
    and
    "I'm hoping eventually, my loyalty and devotion might wear her down."

    is more evidence of infatuation. If you really loved her you would want her to find someone who brings out the best in her, not want her to settle with you because it's unlikely either of you will be happy that way. You don't get a relationship by telling yourself you've been XYZ so if you continue doing it she should relent and give in to you. I get the desire and desperation to have someone but that's infatuation.

    Also marriage pacts don't mean anything. I've made several of these with male friends (jeez, what a slut!) because we were both too scared to be lonely. That doesn't mean anything other than you're her back up option.

    My suggestion? Cool down with these fantasies because you're only going to get hurt. People and relationships are not perfect so stop putting them on a pedestal. Focus your energy into something (not someone) else.
    Sela, Tyche, Adonnus and 1 others thanked this post.

  2. #42

    You just made a hell of a fucking leap, and put a ton of words in my mouth. I never said I deserved her love because I did XYZ. Quote me where I said that. No one deserves love from anyone. I am also loyal to her, not because I want her to love me, but because above all else, she is my best friend.

    When did I ever say I didn't want her to be with someone who made her happy? I didn't. I said I hope it's with me, but I never said I wouldn't be happy for her if she married someone else. If she marries someone she loves, that's amazing, and I'm happy for.

    You're making assumptions left and right, with no reason to make them.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  3. #43
    ESTJ

    This doesn't sound good for either of you. She's told you she doesn't want a relationship. I think that's pretty clear. You said maybe your loyalty will wear her down but there's something about that statement that doesn't sit right. It's not a good plan and you shouldn't bank on it. Honestly you sound like her backup plan and that's bad for you and her. Both of you deserve more than that and I hope you gain the ability to see that yourself.
    Sela, Jawz, JennyJukes and 2 others thanked this post.

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  5. #44

    Her: I don't see a relationship with you working out.
    You: I'm hoping she'll change her mind and realise she wants me.
    You: I honestly believe I can love her better than anyone else.
    You: I'm hoping eventually my loyalty and devotion will wear her down.
    You: She might eventually realize I am what she wants.


    I don't think much else needs to be said. I didn't put words in your mouth I just deconstructed what you were saying. All those quotes up there are within context. I'm very sorry that I upset you but you came for advice and I believe you need to see a perspective outside of your own, especially as I'm a woman who has had close male friendships that ended badly because they had feelings for me and they hoped I would reciprocate. However, I really just enjoyed having a friend I could offload to. They thought differently and always secretly hoped I would "realise" or "change my mind".

    I have said my part. Just heed my warning that only listening to the advice you want to hear is not going to go well. Hope you get the answer you're looking for but please don't blame her if it's not the one you want.
    Sela, Jawz, Tyche and 2 others thanked this post.

  6. #45

    Quote Originally Posted by Horsey View Post
    I don't mind if she settles with me, as I know I'm willing to put in the time and effort to make it work. I love her and the idea of being able to wake up each morning with my best friend, and hear her laugh or see her smile, would overjoy me. I have a desire to change the world, but the drive is so hard to come by. It's something I need to work on. She will be a wonderful mother, and she's told me that will be a wonderful father some day. She's the only person to ever make me want kids or know I wanted to marry someone.
    She's told me before that she just doesn't think her and I could work out. I don't know if it's an attraction thing, or a conflict of behaviors, if that makes sense. For some reason, it leads me to believe it's a conflict of behavior. She did say she would be perfectly happy having my kids, and no one has ever implied that to me before, so it's Obvious that she cares about me deeply and thinks very highly of me.
    Infatuation^

    Honestly I have pretty much been there before with an ESTJ. All I will say is you should reexamine the way you think about relationships and what each person is willing to do to make it about completely mutual understanding and not about your own feelings blotting out the sun. All relationships that aren't built with people who are on the same level as one another and thinking about each other on the same level will fail and this is a fact of life.

    On a personal level infatuation is something I have decided I pretty much never want to experience again since it's an unhealthy state of mind, almost like a mental sickness, and I don't like it, and at the end of the day what you are looking at is half of a real person (on the other side), and the other half is a reflection of your own thoughts. My relationships have gotten noticeably better since then and I much, much prefer this to how I was before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horsey View Post
    I'm hoping eventually, my loyalty and devotion might wear her down.
    When you write something like this you have got to take a look at yourself. I don't mean that in a personal way to attack you, just legitimately that you should reexamine where you are coming from in your whole state of mind here. It is part of personal development to do this occasionally and if you give up on that you are doing yourself a disservice. Good luck.
    Tyche and JennyJukes thanked this post.


     
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