[ESTJ] Need some ESTJ help in sorting this out

Need some ESTJ help in sorting this out

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  • 1 Post By SummerRoads
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This is a discussion on Need some ESTJ help in sorting this out within the ESTJ Forum - The Guardians forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Hey guys, so I need some help in figuring this out. My father-in-law is an ESTJ lifelong military guy and ...

  1. #1

    Need some ESTJ help in sorting this out

    Hey guys, so I need some help in figuring this out. My father-in-law is an ESTJ lifelong military guy and he's been making family reunions crazy frustrating. We used to get along just fine before I had kids but after having kids, reunions are difficult because he parented his kids much more old school than my INTP husband and I do. He's not really open to hearing new ideas or thoughts that differ from whatever he's setup as his guiding views and It's caused a lot of friction. He's married to an old school ISTJ and one of their adult kids is also an ISTJ and all three of them think alike in this regard. So there's like this group mentality when we get together of "there way is the only right way" and since he's the "top of the hierarchy" so to speak, he just makes things really uncomfortable for me as an ESFJ. Like he'll want all the kids to do push ups or something stupid for something minor and my husband and I are like there's no way our kids are doing that. Then he'll get all upset about it like we're challenging his authority when it's like our kids...like no. It doesn't help that his ISTJ son is also old school like that with his own kids so now it's like as if my father-in-law has back-up that that way is the "right" way and now my INTP husband and I are the outliers with our kids...it's really messed up. Or sometimes he doesn't always say things but then you'll see he disapproves and does the silent mad treatment like he's really biting his tongue because his wife told him too kind of and gives off this pissed off vibe all day. It annoys me so much! Like, let's just all get along and respect each other and have a good time. I don't get how he's allowed to go out there and spit out some pretty strong political opinions and views but then doesn't want to hear any differing opinions back (not that I would do that, but my INTP husband / his son tries at times but then stops because he knows from experience it won't go anywhere and isn't worth it).

    I guess my question is this: The past few years I've pretty much just shut up and tried to make the best of it and have as peaceful as a time as I can since we only see each other once a year or so...but honestly, I've really had it. We have another one coming up soon and I want to stand up to him more. He's like a little tyrant at times,..like the rest of us are having a good time and then all of a sudden he has some major anger outburst about something stupid and like kills the whole vibe. I feel so bad for his wife in those moments. Then I feel like it's on me to pick up all the pieces and make people have a good time again and calm the vibe.. It's a lot of work and I'm kind of done with it. I want to feel like I and my family are allowed to be who we are if he's allowed to run around being his self but I'm starting to get the feeling that he really only is going to respect people who push back.

    So how do you stand up to an ESTJ? Is there a "respectful" / less conflictual way of doing it or do they really only respect getting in their face the way they do to others? It's obviously not my style but I'm hoping I can manage to mediate something better before my INTP husband totally loses it on him and like never goes back to family reunions. I don't really want to ever witness an INTP-ESTJ show down...

    I obviously still want family reunions and think they are important because...family.
    Last edited by SummerRoads; 04-13-2019 at 06:27 PM.
    Llyralen thanked this post.



  2. #2

    I'm in the same boat pretty much.

    The other thing I mean to tell you is, there are hardly any ESTJs on here, although for your sake I hope a few come forward, but on the other hand the ISTJs are a very helpful group on here and have helped people with STJ relations. They might be able to help if ESTJs don't come forward.

  3. #3
    Unknown

    Pretty much all authoritarian types appreciate challengers to their authority. They appreciate people who can and do talk back. Usually what works for me is to just not shut up and taking over the entire conversation without any regard for respect or authority or worry about future consequences because the future after a conflict does take care of itself. A good fight is a fight worth engaging in sometimes.

    So.

    We have another one coming up soon and I want to stand up to him more.


    What's the worst that can happen? A bigger fight? More heart burning? How does that change the situation considering you're already unhappy with things as they are?



    Not calling you insane btw ... obviously .. just saying that if you don't change how you respond to someone else's authority how can you ever expect a different outcome?

    I'll give you my own personal example. My ENTJ brother was being an asshole in our family group chat and he has made some pretty annoying comments about Americans overall (knowing full well that I have an American wife). So one day, I decided that for long-term sanity and harmony, I had to stand up to his BS and I exploded in Group Chat and decided to block/remove him from my life after a huge fight. Eventually, he was convinced to apologise and now we're at a happy medium where we do talk once in a while, but the passive aggressive commentary has stopped.

    There's absolutely no way someone changes their attitudes if them doing what they're doing has no consequences in their life.
    Last edited by Jawz; 04-14-2019 at 08:48 AM.
    Tyche and Sela thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    @Llyralen Thank you so much for your message. I tried responding back but it said your message inbox is full and it won't go through until you delete some. I have it saved and can re-send it if you clear some things out. Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU for sharing your story!
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  6. #5
    ESTJ

    I think your husband needs to take a my way or the highway approach, give back some of that same energy. They're your kids, not your FILs. You get to raise them how you want. This is beyond type and it's about respect. He needs to learn to respect your decisions.
    Jawz, Elwinz, Llyralen and 1 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawz View Post
    What's the worst that can happen? A bigger fight? More heart burning? How does that change the situation considering you're already unhappy with things as they are?
    Hi Jawz and thank you for your comment! As an ENTP, I think you're better equipped with the quick banter in arguments and just going for it without regard to "respect or authority or worry about future consequences because the future after a conflict does take care of itself." I'm really just not wired that way because honestly I don't think that things just "take care of itself" in the future. People carry feelings of hurt for a long time and sometimes may never get past feeling disrespected or slighted. They may not always show it on the outside but because I think we Fe Dom type know from our own experience how much we humans affect each other through our words and actions, it makes it incredibly difficult (nearly impossible) for me to be pushed to the point of going all guns blazing out for blood / attack mode on anyone, no matter how much I dislike or disagree with them.

    The concern would be 1) My INTP husband would step in and go nuclear. He doesn't have an issue being abrasive and direct and could tear down his ESTJ dad like no other. But the consequence of that would be that my INTP husband would not want to go back to family reunions again because it's not worth it and that his ESTJ dad would feel so disrespected by his own son that it would further strain any interaction that may come from him. 2) I don't want to be seen as the one "causing problems" and causing a rift in the larger family. He's the one misbehaving and I feel like if I stoop to his level, it just makes me look bad and I'm not willing to throw my dignity down like that. 3) I carry feelings within me for a long time and if I feel like I caused my husband and his family to "break up" or if the ESTJ says hurtful things to me, that's hard for me to process and I can do it, it just takes a lot of time and I don't know that it's worth the critical spiral it can end up being internally vs just shutting up for a few days a year and keeping the peace.

    I really hope there's a way I can confront things in the moment that still lead towards resolution in a civil way but after years now of this I really don't know if he will listen to anything that isn't right in his face. I would try the "slow fade" from their life more but we already live across the country away from them so it's really just a matter of 7 days a year we're talking about...
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Thanks Tyche! I hear you on that. They are our kids so we don't let them tell us what to do with them but the kids pick up on it that their grandfather treats them with more disdain than his other grandkids and he has a short temper so he just has a way of making things feel really negative for everyone when he's in a mood. Like he expects our kids who are all very young (like toddler age) to sit quietly at a table for the whole dinner and hold them to the same standards as his other grandkids who are all like 10 years old and older. He thinks it's a weakness in our parenting that we can't make a 2 year old sit still or something. (just one of the many / smaller examples...obviously crazy annoying to me as an ESFJ because I feel I'm pretty fair with the "rules" in our family and don't think I need to be excessively strict and unreasonable.. I mean, come on)

    So this last family trip my husband stood up to his older ISTJ brother who was being ridiculous about kid / parenting stuff in regards to our kids. Ended up being a full blown loud argumentative almost shouting match. Like all the rest of us 5 adults and kids retreated to the opposite end of the house while they just went at it. Nothing resolved and he and his brother have never gotten along so it didn't really go anywhere. My INTP husband has never been understood by his pretty strict *STJ family so he's beyond the point of thinking he can ever get them to see anything outside of the world they want to see. He's one step away from just walking away from all of it. So that's why I'm trying to find a way I can mediate and mend this thing for the sake of the greater family before it's too late. I also deeply wish they could see him for who he is and not just expect him to conform. He has so many wonderful and creative ideas and is truly open minded and I just wish they would engage with him in that way but they don't or aren't willing to try.

    I've mentioned to him maybe we should just sit down with them in private and talk it all out but he says there's no use that if I even go in there talking about any kind of feelings they'll immediately shut off listening. And since I'm not that skilled in framing things in just logical / emotionless terms I don't think they'd respect me too much for it. If he talks, it's just going to end up really harsh and direct. Who knows, maybe that's where this all has to end but the ESFJ in me still wants to find a way to have us all coexist for 7 days a year and get along for the sake of "family."
    Last edited by SummerRoads; 04-14-2019 at 10:19 AM.
    Llyralen thanked this post.

  9. #8

    Quote Originally Posted by SummerRoads View Post
    @Llyralen Thank you so much for your message. I tried responding back but it said your message inbox is full and it won't go through until you delete some. I have it saved and can re-send it if you clear some things out. Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU for sharing your story!
    I cleaned a bit. =) I'd love to hear your reply!


     

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