An ESTJ Mother and The Space Between

An ESTJ Mother and The Space Between

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  • 1 Post By kept81213

This is a discussion on An ESTJ Mother and The Space Between within the ESTJ Forum - The Guardians forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; I need to ask ESTJs, as an ENTP, there are some things this type does that I can't understand. I've ...

  1. #1
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    An ESTJ Mother and The Space Between

    I need to ask ESTJs, as an ENTP, there are some things this type does that I can't understand. I've seen it confirmed in other posts, and I'm not looking for support, just information. . How does an ESTJ get into a heated argument, say rotten or nasty things, not apologize for it, and then seconds later come back like nothing ever happened asking you for a favor? It's maddening. I would like to add more but it seems impossible to make paragraphs without everything bunching up together. Any advice to either issue available (ESTJ woes, paragraph woes. Well, not woes. Yeah woes.) I would like to connect with my mother, but I knew well before my type that I'm independent, self-confident, and I hate rules I see as irrational or unnecessary. My mother is, well, an ESTJ. She loves me like a mother loves her firstborn but I just feel this dead space between us. Anyone help a mother and a son?

  2. #2
    ESTJ - The Guardians

    Okay well I can tell you off hand that the moving on quickly from an argument thing is all about our S. Since we live in the present we like to move along quickly without dwelling on the past or searching too much into the future. We're not trying to avoid the argument, like I's can sometimes do, we simply just think that we've said our part and that should be the end of the conversation. I know for me arguments that are paused or dragged on continuously drive me crazy. My mom is an ENFP and if we get into an argument, especially at night, she tells me to stop, that she's tired and we'll finish it in the morning. I just cant do that, I either need to finish it right there right then, or just not care about it at all. However, if I feel there is something important that I need to say, then it has to be said right there. And I'm sorry about all the arguing. There are a couple of things that really burn us up 1) protecting someone; if we think someone we love might get themselves in danger or is in danger, there is nothing we wont do to stop it, including getting into a very heated argument 2) if someone claims that we are not doing a good job caring for people 3) if we are told that we're not loyal or responsible enough and 4) sometimes just to prove that we're right. This is of course, a terrible fault of ours that needs to be corrected over a lot of time, but we are big on caring intensely for people we care about, doing our jobs extremely efficiently and our pride is just a problem in and of its own. We like to think we're right, we do a lot of criticizing, and we are usually very harsh just because of our ET, which I'm sure you know about since you are that as well. The judging though does make us extremely black and white about almost anything especially things that have to do with order, like you said, and it makes us quite critical.

    I am sure that your mother and you have many difficulties. For one, you are both ET's and I'm guessing say exactly what you are thinking constantly without much feeling? I know for myself I get into very heated arguments with anyone else who is an ET mostly just because we're both so strong minded, and by mind i mean not including the heart mostly. Like the trouble I have with everyone else in my life who is a P (meaning my mom (ENFP), my sister (INFP) and my best friend (ISFP)) there is that extreme battle between order and spontaneity. I'm sure that she wants you to do many things and follow all the rules she has and society has. And if you go out of line that probably freaks her out because we like to be in control and not following the rules is very very out of control. Spontaneity is almost worse, it is out of plan and extremely out of control which feels sort of like your world is shattering if its sometime really big and bad. The N vs. S thing cant help either since you probably want to go in and out of the past and future and she probably wants things to happen right there right then. She probably also is big on tiny details and make them a larger deal than they actually are, whereas you're just looking at the big picture.

    My advice is that both of you need to find your inner F and express it a little more. I know its hard, but if you make yourself more vulnerable to her and tell her how you feel she'll most likely want nothing more than to fix whatever she did that's hurting you. I know for me and the other ESTJ's that I know, we seem really hard but we absolutely do not want to be the ones inflicting pain on the people we love and we often do this without meaning to. Try opening up to her, she might open up to you as well. But dont pressure her, just tell her things about you, and see if she gets more vulnerable with you too. All the F's around me taught me to do that, and I know from experience, because I'm friends with like 8 NT's that the T makes it very hard for us to connect on such a vulnerable deep level. But maybe with some subtle coaxing then you guys will be able to do that.

    Feel free to ask any more questions though. I would love to help!

  3. #3
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    That was really dead on and insightful Kept, thank you. I completely agree with the order vs. spontaneity, I don't pay attention to details, I'm big picture oriented, and she really wants things how and when she wants them, how and when she wants them, if you get what I mean. She's very focused on present results, and I suppose in MBTI terms we're just not gonna have that bonding relationship I want without us working for it. I hate to mechanize it, but she is perfectly happy with the way things are, and what was agitating me was that I felt that we needed to bond and relate for us to be 'ok'. I felt that as she was my mother I was 'entitled' to that, but to tell you the truth she is peerless when it comes to providing for me, monetarily, and lifewise. I guess not having my father anymore sort of made me feel like she took over his role and neglected hers. I'm not a touchy feely guy, but when I got to a certain age the affection just stopped, and I felt like I lost my mother. Like I had a new Dad. I was really feeling just end of my rope when I wrote that. A lot of what I wrote was a little harsh to ESTJ parents and while she can be ZOMG mustleaveroomnow sometimes, I doubt I can just make that a model for all ESTJs. She is her own person, with her own flaws, beyond MBTI. Hmm further mechanizing would suggest that's my tertiary Fe talking. MBTI has helped me put things into perspective, and you've certainly given me enough information to complete the puzzle in my Ne-Ti maelstrom. Thank you from a fellow ExTx - Mog

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  5. #4
    ESTJ - The Guardians

    I don't know if this will help you at all, but i know that in my life I am very open to advice and constructive criticism. My suggestion would be to tell your mom what's going on with you, and most importantly tell her what solution you would like to see. We need a clear detailed "mom you need to stop yelling at me, when you do it hurts my feelings and I can't just move on from it right away." She likely doesn't even realize you would be hurt by that.

    Another example: Mom I want us to be closer and I want you to think of me more as an equal since I'm an adult (or a person, however old you are), and I want to be mother and son not father and son.

    I know it sounds cold hearted (maybe it is) but I just have such a hard time being intuitive and knowing what others are feeling and what they need from me if they don't tell me. I just get all caught up in being myself. If she's anything like me she'll be furiously upset that she's "let this happen" and at least try to fix things.

    I don't know about the others (I'd be curious to hear what they think) but when I realize I'm doing something counter productive to my happiness, I will do all I can to change my behavior and become a better version of myself.

    Good luck with your mom. I hope this helps you.

    Also, I don't know about the others, but I show my love for people by "doing things for them." Which implies that I like to "take care of the house" or "remember their birthday" or "buy them something I know they want." When you think about her, think about what it is that she's done for you lately, I bet she loves you more than she has expressed with words. When I don't love someone....I leave them the heck alone :).

  6. #5
    ESTJ - The Guardians

    Yep agreed. We dont like to hurt people and we value someone who is straightforward. We're also very loyal so if you say that we're hurting you, most likely we will change our behavior in whatever way we can so that that doesnt happen again.


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