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ESTJ Stereotypes

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This is a discussion on ESTJ Stereotypes within the ESTJ Forum - The Guardians forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by s0ulsurreal I don't agree. I've witnessed many times an ESTJ not expressing their true anger towards something ...

  1. #31
    INTP - The Thinkers

    Quote Originally Posted by s0ulsurreal View Post
    I don't agree. I've witnessed many times an ESTJ not expressing their true anger towards something to save their image. ESTJs really care about what the public thinks of them in what I've noticed. However; when they're around their family or significant others they let loose and can become very temperamental and abusive.

    Still, I have not met every ESTJ in the world to say that's 100% accurate. I'm only basing this stereotype around the ESTJs I've met.

    INFPs are very expressive emotionally. I don't consider them to be as passive aggressive as ESTJs. Although, I can see that stereotype to be more true with INFPs who are more quiet and shy because I don't think they express their emotions as much as the INFPs who come off as more extraverted.
    Do the words 'anger' and 'abusive' somehow come close to the definition of the ESTJ type for you (or even the stereotype)? If they do, they shouldn't. Those are words describing a mentally unhealthy individual, not the good portion of everyday humanity that ESTJ and similar types represent. Any individual with problems can be agressive, passive agressive, and purposefully hurtful, from INFP to ESTJ and all types in between. An ESTJ who accepts himself and learns to live with his own weaknesses will never be abusive or angry by simple definition, no more than an INFP or any other introverted feeler.

    IXXP types are the ones which give the most frequent examples of passive agressive behaviour. An ESTJ would much more likely be outright agressive to the face of anything they find aggravating. They would sooner try to domineer a situation than try to undermine it passively. Their nature is such, they confront what they dislike directly, they don't accept situations they dislike and later fight them in a war of passive agressive attrition.

    Though, of course, I'm only stereotyping from my own experience. My INFP mother, aunt and best friend are quite the artists of passive agression when they need to be (like today apparently..... ffs.). My ESTJ grandfather, on the other hand, just tends to yell at things that anger him and tries to pull in connections with old friends to get someone he doesn't know fired.
    lantern, laly37, QueenOfCats and 25 others thanked this post.

  2. #32

    Quote Originally Posted by thewindlistens View Post
    Do the words 'anger' and 'abusive' somehow come close to the definition of the ESTJ type for you (or even the stereotype)? If they do, they shouldn't. Those are words describing a mentally unhealthy individual, not the good portion of everyday humanity that ESTJ and similar types represent. Any individual with problems can be agressive, passive agressive, and purposefully hurtful, from INFP to ESTJ and all types in between. An ESTJ who accepts himself and learns to live with his own weaknesses will never be abusive or angry by simple definition, no more than an INFP or any other introverted feeler.

    IXXP types are the ones which give the most frequent examples of passive agressive behaviour. An ESTJ would much more likely be outright agressive to the face of anything they find aggravating. They would sooner try to domineer a situation than try to undermine it passively. Their nature is such, they confront what they dislike directly, they don't accept situations they dislike and later fight them in a war of passive agressive attrition.

    Though, of course, I'm only stereotyping from my own experience. My INFP mother, aunt and best friend are quite the artists of passive agression when they need to be (like today apparently..... ffs.). My ESTJ grandfather, on the other hand, just tends to yell at things that anger him and tries to pull in connections with old friends to get someone he doesn't know fired.
    All my statements are only based from my own experiences as well and unfortunately all the male ESTJs I have met are either abusive physically or emotionally. Every ESTJ I know is extremely passive aggressive; way more than any ESTP, ESFP, INFP, ISFP, or INTP I know. So for example; if an ESTJ was to be abusive towards another individual it would most likely be behind closed door, while an ESTP wouldn't care as much who it's around. If an ESTJs values are threatened and an INFPs values are threatened, in my observations the INFP would less likely care about getting angry and yelling in front of a huge crowd of people than an ESTJ would. ESTJs are less straight forward when it comes to conflicts; they want to save face at whatever cost, so they wait until they're in the domineering position and cannot be threatened by outsiders to lash out on their victims. That's pretty passive aggressive in my opinion. Of course I do agree with your statement of "Any individual with problems can be agressive, passive agressive, and purposefully hurtful, from INFP to ESTJ and all types in between." I just stereotype ESTJs and ESTPs to be the most abusive.

  3. #33
    INFP - The Idealists

    Here's my list of ESTJ stereotypes:

    -Authoritarian
    -Lacking in imagination
    -Bullying
    -Overly Competitive
    -Can't Admit It When They're Wrong
    -Superficial
    -Impatient
    -Blowhard (i.e. Rush Limbaugh)
    -Mainstream
    -A perfect example of Arthur Schopenhauer's quote: "all truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, third it is accepted as self evident."
    GoldenDawn, DragonflyBlue, Invidia and 29 others thanked this post.

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  5. #34
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Jeez, i really do not like ESTJs (no offense to the ESTJ's) but the ones i've met seem to be very materialistic, and just didnt care that much about others. I find that the conversations that i have are very different then the ones they have...Whats boring to me is intersting to them. Whats interesting for me is boring to them.

    An example of this..is when i went out with my ex at least two years ago...and my best friend was on the phone with his girl and we had a fourway conversation...and my bestfriends girl said "sometimes i just like to look at the window and look at the stars. When the conversation was done between all of us. My ex said " That girl is special or somethin like that, something that degraded her" and I thought to myself. This girl definitely isnt for me...but like the idiot i was i stayed with her for another 6 months...ten months all together
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  6. #35

    Quote Originally Posted by LivInGMyStory View Post
    This girl definitely isnt for me...but like the idiot i was i stayed with her for another 6 months...ten months all together

    I was in a relationship with an ESTJ for 2 years and lived with him for 6 months. ESTJs are my conflictors. Who's the real idiot now? haha =]


    btw conflicting relationships have been described as "slow suicide".
    natashasghost, DragonflyBlue and dpt727 thanked this post.

  7. #36
    INFP - The Idealists

    Patrick Bateman



    'Nuff Said
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  8. #37
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by LivInGMyStory View Post
    Jeez, i really do not like ESTJs (no offense to the ESTJ's) but the ones i've met seem to be very materialistic, and just didnt care that much about others. I find that the conversations that i have are very different then the ones they have...Whats boring to me is intersting to them. Whats interesting for me is boring to them.
    Same here

  9. #38
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I had a boss who fit the ESTJ profile spot on. I was terrified of her. She was very intelligent, but she had not people skills, was a HUGE micromanager, and would also gossip and get people she did not like fired. She rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. It is sad to hear so many have had such painful experiences with this personality type.

    I am sure that there are some admirable ESTJs out there, I just have not met any yet...it seems the bad apples just ruin the whole barrel :(
    DragonflyBlue, Invidia, sarahpost1337 and 1 others thanked this post.

  10. #39
    ESTJ - The Guardians

    You found an ESTJ that didn't care about others???? That's seems odd since we're the guardians...I would agree about a few of the stereotypes. As an ESTJ here's what I think is correct (that is in a healthy individual)

    I don't know if we're the most mature of all types. But I would say that we're pretty old. I've been like a mother since age 3. Even some of my friends jokingly call me mom whenever I do things for them.

    -controlling
    -Authoritarian
    -Lacking in imagination (true for some, but not me :))
    -Bullying
    -Overly Competitive (again true for some, but not me)
    -Can't Admit It When They're Wrong (SOOO TRUE)
    -Impatient
    -Mainstream
    -A perfect example of Arthur Schopenhauer's quote: "all truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, third it is accepted as self evident." (hahha pretty true)
    - I would say that we are pretty assertive, like what you see is what you get and if you are in trouble you'll know it
    - Not accepting of change
    - Have a hard time accepting help

    Think of us a the ultimate Italian mama. She may yell, but she gets everyone moving along and fed, and they love her for it. :)
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  11. #40
    ESTJ - The Guardians

    Stereotypes

    I'm sure there are plenty of people in this world that don't like me because of my personality type, but in my case I've found the key factor is weather people are F's or T's. Every single one of my friends is a T. My husband is an INTP, which actually works out incredibly well. He sort of needs someone to "do the things he doesn't like to do", like planning and cleaning the house, and I really need to have someone who listens to me and gives me great advice, he is great at creating a big picture plan, and I'm good with the details. Now F's on the other hand, I can barely understand you guys. It really stinks because 75% of women are F's, so most of my friends are men. I do have a few girlfriends but many of them just have a hard time with how I will basically tell it like it is and I'm not very concerned with their "feelings".

    I think that lots of F's take everything I say too personally, I'm generally not trying to offend them. Think of Dr. Tempe Brennan on Bones, she just says things that are true sometimes even if others find them insensitive, I can't even understand why people would be offended by my pointing out the truth about something.

    It's also challenging to be a ESTJ female, because I want to be in control of situations but on the other hand I also want to be feminine and believe in a traditional female role for me in my family. This can definitely be a challenge for me to balance. Now about the stereotypes:

    -controlling - Yes, I am this way. Especially when I think that others are incompetent, if someone has earned my trust and I'm managing them I will let them do whatever they want, but earning my trust isn't super easy.
    -Authoritarian -Yes
    -Lacking in imagination (Yes and no, I'm good at coming up with creative solutions to problems, but I'm the kind to sit around "imagining a different world" like my INTP, or even one to be very artsy/creative.)
    -Bullying - I am not a bully. I don't pick on people or say mean things about them for no reason. I may tell someone the truth. For instance, if someone is perpetually late I might say "It would be helpful if you could show up on time", but I don't just attack people because I think they're weak or anything.
    -Overly Competitive - Not really, I like to win, but I lose pretty well too
    -Can't Admit It When They're Wrong - I am addicted to finding to concrete truth, and I admit being wrong pretty easily, although usually I'll want some time on my own to think about things before admitting I was wrong.
    -Impatient -Very True
    -Mainstream - I am very weird, especially politically, Although if it was 1776 I would be mainstream...
    -A perfect example of Arthur Schopenhauer's quote: "all truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, third it is accepted as self evident." ...I don't really get what this is trying to say, am I the one who passes through three stages or is this what I'm supposed to think about others?
    - I would say that we are pretty assertive, like what you see is what you get and if you are in trouble you'll know it - I agree with this
    - Not accepting of change : I do not like change for no reason...I want to know why things are changing before I'll go along with it
    - Have a hard time accepting help: This is very true about me

    A few others I've thought of myself:

    -Hard Working
    -Gets the job done
    -Obsessed with punctuality
    -Not afraid to make hard decision
    -Go getter
    -Not afraid to state what I believe in, even if I know others don't agree
    -Willing to hurt others feelings if it means getting to the truth
    -Like to "mother" others (at least this seems true for female ESTJ's)
    -Very proud of accomplishments
    -Very loyal friends once someone has earned trust

    Anyway, I don't know why all stereotypes have to be negative, these are things I've observed in myself as well as others.

    About Angry ESTJ:
    When I was a teen I had grown up in the kind of household where people yell and scream at each other every day. As a result I also had an anger management problem. I had a hard time dealing with conflict in any way and would often end up yelling or getting mad. At some point I decided I had crossed a line and decided to change. I gradually learned to control my anger and I can't think of a single time I have yelled or screamed at anyone since I've been at an adult. If an ESTJ you know is yelling at people it is because they can't see how much it is damaging themselves and their own lives, and they don't know how to deal with the intense emotions that we feel about things. I believe in things incredibly strongly, my beliefs are not a passing fancy, they make up my whole person and each day I strive to make sure I'm living by them. If you're brave enough, maybe you should mention to one of these friends that they're anger is mostly damaging them, not others, and that others lose respect for them when they get angry. When I learned that, it was easy for me to change.

    Also, yes we are selfish, actually I think all people are, but that's another story :). It is incredibly hard for me to emphasize with the hardships of others if I don't know them personally. I can only see rational arguments. For instance, when I watch one of those commercials for dying children in africa I truly do believe it's sad....but I also cannot believe that blindly giving aid to them is the solution. Clearly to me the solution is helping their country by bringing in industry, business, and jobs. The way that the US was built. Giving people bare necessities does not bring them into independence, it only makes them believe the way to get aid is by staying poor. Call me insensitive, but the US didn't become the wealthiest country in the world by accepting charity, and I'm not sure we would have if we had had charity. I'm not saying I don't like charities, but they are always the ones where people help themselves... like scholarships for academic excellence, or if I hear of someone who has escaped from Cuba and made it to the US, I want to take them in. Anyway, I'm not saying that I can't understand the plight of sick children, but if we spent half as much money building up power plants in Africa as we did on feeding them, I think the difference would be more substantial and lead to the only life I can see as worth living, the one where you are financially independent.

    Ok this was a really long post so If you made it to hear, bravo, and if not, O well :).
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