This is a discussion on ESTJ Stereotypes within the ESTJ Forum - The Guardians forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by Cookie Monster I had a boss who fit the ESTJ profile spot on. I was terrified of ...
Its very easy to hold a grudge against any personality type. I know I for one have. However, it seems like I lot of you have had experiences with an unhealthy ESTJ, which although I am very sorry about that, is no excuse to generalize our type. My dad is an ESTP for example and he is a huge jerk, but I would never generalize his type because I know plenty of other ESTP's that are amazing individuals. My stepmom, also not a very good person, is an ISFJ, but again, that is her and not her type. In particular we are probably the most misunderstood by NF's because they are the ones we simply do not have as much in common with. My mom is an ENFP and my grandfather is an ESTJ and I know she misunderstood him for a very long time. It really wasn't until she had me that she could really appreciate him as a person.
Is possible that these ESTJ's you are having problems with simply dont know they're acting this way? Especially if they are family wouldn't you like a good relationship with them? We are extroverts, aka not good at listening, we're not always good at noticing when we do something that may seem offensive or controlling, and no we're not really that gushy. But I will tell you that we are complete suckers for those in pain, especially if it is because of something we said or did. It simply crushes us. All I can say is, I am way more of a softer person because my mom and sister (ENFP and INFP) both had the guts to tell me that what i was doing was hurtful to them. I could actually go into great detail about how some INF's are passive aggressive and I would say that's equally as bad as yelling in a straight forward manner, but I can understand that that is who they are and although it might not be the best way to handle things in my opinion, it is part of who they are. If my ENFP mother taught me anything its to appreciate all the good things and deal with the bad things when they come.
Believe me, I know a lot about being that mean bully that you all can see. But I never knew I was doing that until my sister flat out told me. We're kind of like the dog who barks really loudly and bares his teeth at you, but then will freely let you sleep on his stomach and guard you from all dangers once you've made friends. I have a chow dog and if you've ever met one, they're in particularly similar an ESTJ. I've never had a more loyal dog.
From my experience, they're really normal, and they like to be seen that way.
While they're not usually smarter than I am, they tend to be smarter than everyone else. They will respect that if you use it.
Need to have their appeal to normalcy removed (validation from others) to be defeated, especially in changing their thinking.
They live for themselves, even if they live to help others.
One the verge of ending a looonnnnggg friendship with an ESTJ. I'm an INFP and, yes, feelings are much more important to me than to her. But, I've been going through a long period of self-awareness and was struggling with depression for quite awhile, so when she said I was "self-absorbed" I just about lost it. He inability or unwillingness to understand that a depressed person needs to be self-absorbed in order to save themselves is the last straw for me. She is very dynamic and charismatic which has allowed me to miss that she's also selfish and shallow and that we really don't have much in common. We've done ok in person, but all we ever do is go out to eat. I'd like to do more interesting stuff, but she's not interested in much that I like and vice versa. Even the movies we occasionally watch when I'm at her house, although sometimes funny or suspenseful, are not the ones I would watch. Recently, during the whole self-absorbed exchange, I wrote her 4 VERY to pretty long e-mails trying to explain what I'd been going through and why that may have appeared self-absorbed, but that I don't think I'm a self-absorbed person by nature. She responded to one in depth, the other three she responded to with "ok", "This is a conversation we need to have in person," and "thanks for sharing." I am totally done. I don't want or expect her to change, but I'm done wasting my time with someone that is so different and unable to empathize and with having to be the one to suppress who I am to be around her. Not worrying about feelings may be an ESTJ personality trait, but it's not ok with me and I'd guess other people to just trample on their feelings.
What a great opportunity to break the mold of ESTJ!
Me, as lantern, here to do just that:
1.) Does not question the law - I guess so, but I don't mind doing the odd 'naughty' thing just for the sake of hedonism.
2.) Conservative - Not really, quite liberal....not that into politics
3.) Bullies - Hell, no - not even near. Bullies need a whack round the head. I don't like unnecessary unkind words.
4.) Unprogressive - Uhhh....no....I'm a take-charge person. If something I want done I will do it.
5.) Paranoid - Only if something really matters to me and I want a positive outcome.
6.) Bias towards their own beliefs - Yes, my cultural beliefs - I question some of my family traditions, I'm not rigid towards these beliefs, but there are some I hold true value to my heart.
7.) Critical of others - Only if it's someone who is incompetent in their work, and their incompetence is affecting others not just me.
8.) Strict - Not really, I do like some routine but really appreciate flexibility - you've gotta live!
9.) Boring - I don't believe I'm boring. I love to have fun, depends on who I'm with though, if I'm with work colleagues there's only so far I would go - got a reputation to keep. Outside of work, with my usual friends, I let my hair down.
10.) Direct and truthful when communicating with others - Yes to an extent, I say it in the most kindest way I can. Why fool someone you care about with a silly lie - when you know full well that they won't benefit in the long run?
Yes I am all polite and formal at first, depending on who I'm talking to - this to me constituents good manners - I don't feel comfortable talking about my personal life straight away - I have never met anyone who is immediately open with their life stories.
IF I feel, have made the decision that I can fully trust someone I am OPEN....I don't give a bull's eye - I have fun, I have broken rules....I am not some stiff person who looks like I have a coin up my backside, I have my values and I stick by them such as loyalty and respect. I'm down-to-earth, I dislike hierarchy, I prefer talking to people who have no airs about them, I believe everyone is equal, we are all the same, we eat, drink and go to the toilet, get sick and everything else - we are all human.
Ok , I think I have said enough
I know an INFP and we don't share the same interests either but we got along pretty fine for the most part.
Sometimes it's hard for me to understand him, but I try my best to let him give me the opportunity to understand him without his descriptions being detailed, I didn't want to ask too many questions while he was also depressed, so I decided to give him space and let him think for himself for a second while I'm always there for him! it wasn't intentional though that whenever he told me about how he felt when he was depressed, he told me to stop rationalizing how he feels. I didn't even know I was doing it but at the same time, I was all ears and talked to him for hours on end so he could feel better.
To add a note to that, not all ESTJs are like that. Some get along great and some don't despite of the ESTJ and the INFP differences. I do think that it was best that you let go of the friendship that isn't progressing or if she isn't understanding or is willing to but this experience shouldn't get you to think about ESTJs in general. Some friendships aren't meant to be, it was best that you moved on. I hope you're doing fine!I second this! A friend of mine thinks that I'm strict with my schedules and I have to be at a certain place by 3 and when I miss the clock by one minute, he thinks that I'd freak out, literally!Strict - Not really, I do like some routine but really appreciate flexibility - you've gotta live!
now who does that?
some flexibility is good, I definitely agree with that.
I've known an ESTJ that was in a biker gang and sold speed.
And I've also known another one who was an art director in an ad agency.
I think, most people, have a cookie cutter image of ESTJs that is downright wrong.
Mafia, Biker Gangs, as well as the Boy Scouts of American are all organizations that follows rules of order and have goals. ESTJs will can associate with any organization and sometimes several apparently contradictory ones at the same time.
An ESTJ's ethics or morals are soley dependent upon something other than personality type.
There was one ESTJ who cracked me up. He reminded me of Owen Wilson.