[ESTP] ESTP's and ADD

ESTP's and ADD

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This is a discussion on ESTP's and ADD within the ESTP Forum - The Doers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; I just want to know how many of the active ESTP commenters are ADD or ADHD. I am ADHD, diagnosed ...

  1. #1
    ESTP - The Doers

    ESTP's and ADD

    I just want to know how many of the active ESTP commenters are ADD or ADHD. I am ADHD, diagnosed since 4th grade. Although I don't take my medicine :)



  2. #2
    ESTP - The Doers

    Well @elvis2010 seems to be under the impression that ESTPs can't have ADHD. I myself have always doubted my diagnosis then I recently stumbled across some videos by Dr Russel A Barkley and his description of ADHD as a executive function/motivation deficit disorder fits me to a T. He's dug deep beneath the surface and has made me realize what's really going on inside my brain.

    I'm currently not on medication either although some days I think I should be and other days I think medication is a hoax.

  3. #3
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by ashley286 View Post
    I just want to know how many of the active ESTP commenters are ADD or ADHD. I am ADHD, diagnosed since 4th grade. Although I don't take my medicine :)
    Let me guess: you don't take your medicine because in the beginning it does help with focus and energy but the longer you take it, the more it stresses you out.

    Ashley, anyone taking ADD medicine is going to focus better and have more purpose in the short term. However, if you really had ADD, you wouldn't be quitting your medicine.

    This is pretty simplistic, but I will give you an example of someone with real ADD. People with ADD form lactic acid at a much lower rate, and that means they have MUCH better physical stamina and can jog forever. When I was 13 playing soccer, the team would run three laps around the soccer field, and one kid would literally be done when most of us were just about to start our third lap. That is a kid with real ADD/ADHD.

    Hyperactive ESTPs are more likely to have mania, autism, or asperger's than ADD, but most people don't know much about what those conditions are. And ESTPs who don't pay attention in class are more likely to be bored than have ADD. Any teacher and most parents have heard of ADD and if their kid is hyper or not focusing in class swears the kid has it. There is a slogan then that to someone with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail and that is the case with ADD.

    The goal of treatment with ADD is to raise dopamine, so people should ask what are the symptoms of low dopamine, but that isn't what you see in the ADD checklist. Here are the questions I think should be asked: Do you frequently lose your wallet and keys? Do you not get pleasure from things that other people do? Do you have way better than average physical stamina? Is your heart rate lower than normal? None of these are absolute, but it gives you a good idea of what to look for.

    I used to think that only Ns could have ADD/ADHD, but there seems to be a lot of ISFPs who fit the diagnosis. I haven't seen as many ISFPs as I would have liked. I am beginnig to think ISFP not INFJ may in fact be the rarest type there is.

    I am even taking care of an ESTP guy who is a former meth addict. Crystal Meth destroys the dopamine producing areas of the brain, so if any ESTP should have ADD, this guy should, and he doesn't.

    I have seen three ESTP women on ADD meds, more for energy than anything else. However, they all had the same issue, low thryoid, and couldn't get out of bed let alone focus without their ADD meds. Low thyroid can mimic ADD, not ADHD though, and once we get their thyroid levels to normal levels, I am hoping I can get them off their ADD medicine.

    So after about a thousand people now whom I have typed, I still haven't seen an ESTP with real ADD, and I doubt that I ever will. The Ns refer to what I see with my own eyes, Se, as "anecdotal", which is a condescending word meaning what I see is worthless. However, if you actually look at ADD studies, most have fewer than 1000 subjects, and it would stupid for me as an ESTP to not rely on my Se.

    But it's not just that. I intrinsically know how important dopamine/pleasure is to ESTPs, and I just don't see how it is possible for us to be low on it. It just doesn't make any sense.

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  5. #4
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by elvis2010 View Post
    But it's not just that. I intrinsically know how important dopamine/pleasure is to ESTPs, and I just don't see how it is possible for us to be low on it. It just doesn't make any sense.
    Haha yeah this makes sense. Btw my focus is really good too. My energy is usually good though I feel like it could be better at times.

    When I was very young I was a bit ADHD-ish, well, hyperactive going/crawling everywhere, couldn't be stopped. But that went away by the time I got self consciousness (age 3) so I don't have memories of it.

    I don't lose my keys and stuff because I've developed routines to stay a bit organized. ;P

    I get pleasure from many things but they may not be the same things other people do. So what.

    Really interesting about how ADD people would have better physical stamina without any training... Well, I actually did have better stamina by default than most untrained people and I was a better runner untrained than the other kids in school.

    Then I got really unfit after high school according to my own standards... Compared to other unfit women, not bad though. Now I again have good stamina and lower HR than your average unfit person but only because I'm training.

    Anyway I think I'd probably qualify for aspergers better than ADD... have you seen my question to you in the restricting Se thread? About my perception issues, whether they could relate to some kind of aspergers.

  6. #5
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    My 17 year old son is an ESTP or at least that is what he tested out as and I am fairly sure it fits him and he agrees. I wondered if he was he was ADD or ADHD but just busy. In fact his step-mom took him twice to be tested and they claimed he was borderline but my ex-husband said he didn't think he was ADD. He just didn't/doesn't fit the cookie cutter, stereotypical classroom setting. The boy is busy, his mind is always going, and he didn't learn to walk - he learned to run. He learned his times tables only because I gave up trying to make him sit still through flash cards and went ahead and let him do a flip every time he got one right and that is no lie. Unlike his ISTP sister who has this tremendous ability to out-focus anyone in the family. Unlike his ESFJ sister who could rule the universe with her terrific organization skills and never forgets a date at almost 12 years old. Anyway, point is that I am a little ADDish myself. Sometimes, I swear that I am because I have a shitty focus as does my ESTP son and I have just explained to him that when it comes to his school work he is just going to have to figure out what works for him and it isn't going to be what works for everyone else. It sucks to be disorganized in an organized world but somehow we learn to adapt, it just takes a lot of willpower.

    It might be hard when I have asked him 500 times to do his laundry, or he keeps tapping his foot, or he keeps doing his little mimicry business and driving everyone crazy but it is just who he is. Good God, if he loses his wallet ONE MORE TIME or his work hat. I said to him the other day "Maybe you can give yourself a piece of candy every time you hang your work hat up (cause he keeps losing it)" and he said "candy won't work mom" and I said "why not? If you can teach a dog to ring a bell then you can teach yourself to hang up your hat" and he said "the problem is that I am part cat". HAHAHAA! He cracks me up.

  7. #6
    ESTP - The Doers

    @elvis2010 , why would better physical stamina indicate AD(H)D?

  8. #7
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by themartyparade View Post
    @elvis2010, why would better physical stamina indicate AD(H)D?
    This is a pretty good explanation of why we get tired when jogging/working out:


    • As we exercise pyruvate is formed
    • When insufficient oxygen is available to breakdown the pyruvate then lactate is produced

    The breakdown of glucose or glycogen produces lactate and hydrogen ions (H+) - for each lactate molecule, one hydrogen ion is formed. The presence of hydrogen ions, not lactate, makes the muscle acidic that will eventually halt muscle function.

    Given that high levels of lactate/hydrogen ions will be detrimental to performance, one of the key reasons for endurance training is to enable the body to perform at a greater pace with a minimal amount of lactate.

    So the quicker you form lactic acid, the worse your stamina will be.

    Now look at this: Catecholamine response to exercise in children w... [Pediatr Res. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

    "Finally, a significant attenuation in the lactate response to exercise was found in ADHD (between groups, p < 0.005)."

    Of all the things looked at in the study, the most signifcant is the one with the lowest P value. In this case, the most significant finding was that children with ADHD formed lactic acid at a much lower rate (attenuation is the opposite of amplification) than "normal" children.

    Simple conclusion: ADHD kids form less lactate which means greater physical stamina.

    But Marty, when you were "diagnosed" with ADHD, my guess is that no one questioned you about your physical stamina, right?
    Crafter79 thanked this post.

  9. #8
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulipgarden View Post
    Sometimes, I swear that I am because I have a shitty focus as does my ESTP son.

    Good God, if he loses his wallet ONE MORE TIME or his work hat.

    or he keeps doing his little mimicry business and driving everyone crazy but it is just who he is.
    Tulip, these are three behaviors I would expect to see with ENTPs but not expect to see with ESTPs.

    And of all the Ns, INTPs and ENTPs seems to have the most severe cases of ADHD.

  10. #9
    Unknown Personality

    I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid but I think it was really because I thought school was boring.

  11. #10
    ESTP - The Doers

    Quote Originally Posted by elvis2010 View Post
    But Marty, when you were "diagnosed" with ADHD, my guess is that no one questioned you about your physical stamina, right?
    Nope. Didn't know there was a link between it and ADHD until now and I've never heard of anyone who has either.


     
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