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This is a discussion on I am a Men's Rights Activist , AMA within the General Chat forums, part of the The Cafe Lounge category; Originally Posted by Blue Sphere Women for whatever reason, gets less punishment for the same crime as men. Why do ...

  1. #81

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Women for whatever reason, gets less punishment for the same crime as men.
    Why do you think this happens? Do you know which crimes are most and least affected? Feminists have actually written about this extensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    There are no men safe shelters, even though men are just as likely to get abused by other men or women.
    No, men are not as likely to be abused by their partner. The ones who are seem to be more resilient (I would guess due to the massive income disparity between male and female victims). I'm not sure how many men's shelters are necessary but all evidence points to them needing far less than women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Nearly all the child custody are given to the mother, when 70% of the male criminals are a product of single mothers.
    No, when custody cases actually go to court, men win about 50% of the time. Women get custody more often than me but it's due to them not pushing for it, not because of biases in the court system. Being raised by a single mother in itself doesn't make one any more likely to become a criminal; this is actually caused by the fact that single mothers are so much more likely to be poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    The extreme suicide rate of males, I heard it was 4 times as high? Forgot the figure. Nothing is done anyway.
    Four times higher sounds about right. Again this is something that feminists have written extensively about. Women are actually more likely to have suicidal thoughts and attempt suicide, but because they choose less violent methods they're also less likely to succeed. What do you think should be done about this? Research suggests that men are far less likely to seek help. Here in Australia there have been campaigns seeking to make men more willing to reach out when they need help. I support this and so does every feminists I know. If your point is that men suffer more from depression, this seems speculative considering that women are more likely to attempt suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Almost all homeless people are males, partially because of the fact many men are paying child custody for children they have never seen or even heard of before.
    Do you have a source for this? What portion of men are driven to homelessness because of children they've never seen or heard of before? This should be good lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    No fund going into male disease research funding, also no one is funding any form of male well being center/organisation to deal with depression or anything which leads to pretty much all of the issues above.
    This is an issue that I'm less familiar with. Do you have a source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Males are required to go to war as a citizen of a country, female aren't, they have a choice to join, but males don't have a choice to dodge.
    Conscription doesn't exist in Australia and it practically doesn't exist in the US. I think you'll find most feminists are against conscription.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    All the dangerous jobs are occupied by men, because no females will ever do it. Same situation as the army example above, males have no choice to not do it. And those are always the places with the worst possible working environment, nothing is done to fund better and safer work place for them anyway, solely because they're men and they should be able to hold up fine. As such, their death rate is shockingly high, but nothing is addressed.
    Actually here in Australia women are being encouraged to pursue these more physical and dangerous jobs. And the lack of safety is less about them being men and more about them being poor. Society doesn't give a shit about poor people. I think this is horrible too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Females dominate the teaching sector in many countries, not because of males not interested it or incapable of it, but because rape charges in today's society do not require any evidence to warrant the charge. Way over 50% of the rape charges are outright false report, yet nothing is done to fix or reduce this bizarre situation, nor is the false-reporter are expected to receive any punishment or fine.
    This is completely false and anyone who thinks it's true is delusional. Sorry, you need some better sources here. No one really knows exactly how many reports are false but the best evidence points it being a tiny percentage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Male rape/abuse/assault reports are often ignored because both general public or the law system do not believe the males are capable of being a target of an attack for whatever reason.
    Do you have a source for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    The law specifically says the a rape requires penetration to be considered a rape. A female teacher can forcibly give a 5 years old oral sex, get found out, and walks away free just because for whatever reason that's okay. Meanwhile a male teacher can have sex with a 18 years old female student when both side agree the relationship, but gets charged solely because he is a male teacher.
    No one thinks mature women should be giving 5 year olds oral sex. That's absurd. If a woman were to do this, I'm not sure if it would be rape or sexual assault; either way it's still a serious crime and, if she were a teacher, she'd never be allowed to work in the industry again. Also, the definition of rape that you're using here is outdated. It was changed in response to feminist pressure. I assure you, forcing a man to have vaginal sex is definitely rape.
    BlackDog, Noctis, Metalize and 1 others thanked this post.

  2. #82

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    I am surprised you didn't even notice the gross contrasts of attitudes in the last 2 sentences of this paragraph that ironically points out what's exactly wrong with today's feminism, not sure if it was intended. Start rallying girls to apply for construction workers, miners, fisher or other pure muscle positions before one complains about inequality that may or may not even be there in the first place. Have you or any girls you know even tried?

    Until when there are girls actually getting kicked out of construction crew for no reason other than they're female, this statement holds no water and is just sexist as a whole by assuming that all males are automatically discriminating against girls. I am quite fed up with this victim mentality reverse sexism frankly.



    This comes off as ignorant. It's not always due to ignorance or laziness that some jobs are dangerous. Since sometimes it's just too expensive to improve the condition when the entire industry isn't even that profitable in the first place. The workers are simply expected to die or be damaged (excluding rich countries and somewhere not too rural), they can only try to reduce it but never will they actually cut it low or outright remove it unless economy changed 1 day. It's just the harsh reality/bad side of capitalism.

    By why are the most dangerous jobs only occupied by men? Good question, because women are never expected to touch them and they don't want to anyway. But men WILL be pushed into those circumstances because of 1. family/peer/workplace pressure or 2. they are still expected to feed the family even when it may cost his life. Do women have such worries in this aspect? Almost none.



    As I explained above, many job positions simply can't afford offering better environment/conditions for the workers, which is why most dangerous works are often the lowest industry sector dealing with raw materials.

    But this remark suggesting that people fund based on going against feminism is outright sadistic to say. Please fk off. If anything, big businesses are funding only TOWARDS feminism, because it gives them spotlight and more media coverage. And funny how most feminist activists have to survive on funds, not capitals they really possess, and live as a pen of some person in the marketing sector without ever realising it.



    You would be a very ignorant person if you truly believe that not a single example from all the things I have listed exists.

    The history doesn't just have discrimination towards women, half of it is discrimination towards men whether you like to admit it or not. With the introduction of feminism which is cool, they got rid of the female discrimination.

    But that's where their coolness ends. The rest is about going back on their own words and purpose, promoting female supremacy of over males, ignoring all male issues, actively preventing anyone to address male related issues, and kicking males down with yet more discrimination.

    Face it, Feminism is not great anymore.
    Of course there are a few examples.
    There are not enough to make it a serious "men's issue".

    As I pointed out with your example about death in the work place, many issues that men face ( and they do) are not actually "Men's issues" but societal problems in general.
    But it seems that a lot of MRA's are too busy trying to compete with femminists over who has it worse rather than do something about the real problems they do face and solve.

    No, femminists do not want "Supremacy".

  3. #83

    Quote Originally Posted by Fumetsu View Post
    Of course there are a few examples.
    There are not enough to make it a serious "men's issue".

    As I pointed out with your example about death in the work place, many issues that men face ( and they do) are not actually "Men's issues" but societal problems in general.
    But it seems that a lot of MRA's are too busy trying to compete with femminists over who has it worse rather than do something about the real problems they do face and solve.
    I am pretty sure I mentioned more than workplace death if you actually read any of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fumetsu View Post
    No, femminists do not want "Supremacy".
    There is a difference between ideal and reality, past and present, get real. Even if you actually live under a rock you should at the very least come across some stories in the past few years, this level of denial is just ridiculous.

  4. #84

    Now be advised that while there are many sources here, I intentionally ignored many of the sources I came across that has numbers supporting the general public views on this matter. The reason for that is most of them include uneducated buzz words like "race" (what day and age is it?) or "domestic violence" (that is used specifically to refer to violence towards female but excluding males) etc, or are enforcing an agenda that is already over presented in the media making it kinda redundant to read.

    You already know about their arguments anyway so it would be pointless to just read the same thing over and over, so I am posting this with the purpose of countering the general conscience on the matter and providing countering sources that are backed up rather reasonably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Why do you think this happens? Do you know which crimes are most and least affected? Feminists have actually written about this extensively.
    Men Sentenced To Longer Prison Terms Than Women For Same Crimes, Study Says
    https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinf...sparities.aspx

    60% more sentence mind you. The reason for that is because the law to some degrees still handle women as if they're kids who need extra protection as they don't know any better, which is obviously false.

    But you don't ever see feminists asking for equal sentence on women for the same crime don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    No, men are not as likely to be abused by their partner. The ones who are seem to be more resilient (I would guess due to the massive income disparity between male and female victims). I'm not sure how many men's shelters are necessary but all evidence points to them needing far less than women.
    One in Three Campaign - Family Violence - Australia Says No!
    More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals | Society | The Guardian
    What about men? Lies, statistics . . . and peddling myths about violence against women | The Citizen

    Stereotype at its finest. It's indeed true that males are abused less than females, but to say that they don't exist or have vastly smaller number when compared to women is talking nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    No, when custody cases actually go to court, men win about 50% of the time. Women get custody more often than me but it's due to them not pushing for it, not because of biases in the court system. Being raised by a single mother in itself doesn't make one any more likely to become a criminal; this is actually caused by the fact that single mothers are so much more likely to be poor.
    Single fathers: UK statistics | News | The Guardian
    https://www.fatherhood.gov/content/dad-stats

    Then there is this:
    Dispelling The Myth Of Gender Bias In The Family Court System¬*|¬*Cathy Meyer

    So I guess in this one, we can sort of leave it open believe what we will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Four times higher sounds about right. Again this is something that feminists have written extensively about. Women are actually more likely to have suicidal thoughts and attempt suicide, but because they choose less violent methods they're also less likely to succeed. What do you think should be done about this? Research suggests that men are far less likely to seek help. Here in Australia there have been campaigns seeking to make men more willing to reach out when they need help. I support this and so does every feminists I know. If your point is that men suffer more from depression, this seems speculative considering that women are more likely to attempt suicide.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender...ces_in_suicide
    Why are men more likely than women to take their own lives? | Science | The Guardian
    https://www.afsp.org/understanding-s...ts-and-figures
    Australia's suicide rate drops but males four times more likely to suicide than females - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    Number of suicides in UK increases, with male rate highest since 2001 | Society | The Guardian

    I think I need to elaborate on this one a little. You're right about females using averagely less fatal method to suicide averagely (please be advised that males and females in some places do both choose lethal methods as their primary choice, but we're strictly talking about AVERAGE here), however the INTENT is different in the first place.

    Males suicide with the full intention to die, females attempts suicide to be saved. Most female "suicides" are strictly categorised as "self harm" because they aren't actually doing it to end themselves. But if we solely count the people who suicides with the full purpose to never wake up again, the gender suicide disparity would be even greater but I guess media outlet wants to make a point but not be too inconvenient so they include the self harms to make it seem just a little more even.

    The reason for a phenomenon like this is gender roles' pressure. Some may write a few things about it, but how much is actually done? If they truly believe the harmony between 2 genders there should have been a big campaign, or even several, by now. I don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Do you have a source for this? What portion of men are driven to homelessness because of children they've never seen or heard of before? This should be good lol.
    I'll admit that the latter part of that statement was not written with a full straight face, hence I specifically use "partially" and juggle around the child custody impression. However on the topic of homelessness, it's undeniable that men are the vast majority of them.

    Why Are Men More Likely To Be Homeless? -
    Homelessness is a gendered issue, and it mostly impacts men - Telegraph
    What age, where, and how many: The data on homelessness in Ireland

    1 thing to note that women are more likely to turn to prostitution ie, "survival sex" to get it going, while males aren't, because male prostitution is both looked down a lot and low in demand anyway.

    Also the internet is full of article trying to twist the stats, because a HUGE deal of them aren't really trying to address homelessness but to use it as a bridge to connect somewhere else like the famous argument "domestic violence". Do ignore those when trying to find fairer articles that is actually about either homelessness or the gender aspect of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    This is an issue that I'm less familiar with. Do you have a source?
    Men die earlier but women's health gets four times more funding
    Cancer Research - Women Receiving More Funding Than Men

    It's rather hard to find articles on this because I had troubles locating the ones I had read, and when you search for the topic all you see is peeps arguing that females shouldn't pay for more health insurance when they use way more medical resources than men, but whatever I am not really talking about that here. But what I will say is:

    Mars vs. Venus: The gender gap in health - Harvard Health

    The "Medical care" sub-section of this article briefly explains why females use more medical resources than men, because of again, gender roles and expectations. Females are more likely to seek help, while men would be waiting it out until it's too late. And there is way too less coverage that tells men to seek help, much like almost any other case that is connected to well-beings.

    Now here is the twist, there is this article:
    Why does breast cancer research receive more research funding than prostate cancer? | Katatrepsis

    It's about trying to rationalise why females are given a multiple times the health fund than male, the writer argues that is because females are more likely to die when younger and that pretty much warrants the absurd fund gap between male and female, even though the male total death count is definitely not less than female's with everything considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Conscription doesn't exist in Australia and it practically doesn't exist in the US. I think you'll find most feminists are against conscription.
    Even without conscription, males are expected to enlist when wars break out anyway. That's where the real problem lies under all this. They have a duty even if it's not directly forced on them, for females it's merely a choice. Not to mention it should be pretty noticeable when you get involved with the media to realise that male solder or civilian deaths are most of the time merely treated as a number while female deaths in war would often receive a detailed mention or even being the headline itself.

    I never heard feminists argue that genders should stop being mentioned in the news altogether, especially with the victim mentioning, because they're too busy saying females are weak and deserve special kid gloves themselves anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Actually here in Australia women are being encouraged to pursue these more physical and dangerous jobs. And the lack of safety is less about them being men and more about them being poor. Society doesn't give a shit about poor people. I think this is horrible too.
    Then think why most poor people working in dangerous jobs are men. Obviously many poor men have their families but why are the men dying in jobs and not women?

    Well because dangerous job is too risky for the weak women but it's less of a trouble when it comes to men right? Or is it that females are inherently worth more than males in terms of their values, so a few men dying is no big deal?

    No matter how you look at it, it's gender stereotypes all over again. Notice that you said "women are being encouraged to pursue these more physical and dangerous jobs", again same deal, it's an option to put their life on the line if women so desire, not so much when we're dealing with males because they are still expected to feed themselves and their families so poor men have no choice but to throw themselves into the fray and hopes it all works out.

    And yes it's indeed true that some working conditions are outright garbage, but it can't be helped, because as I said in some other post here, some industry simply can't afford to give their workers better condition. Which is why most of the dangerous jobs are about dealing with or harvesting basic raw materials, not to mention being in a poorer country helps the run down working environment too. It's a problem with the current model of capitalism but there is still gender issues associated with all of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    This is completely false and anyone who thinks it's true is delusional. Sorry, you need some better sources here. No one really knows exactly how many reports are false but the best evidence points it being a tiny percentage.
    It largely depends on what the law and the people define as false report. Let's also not forget the unreported or reported but not recorded cases.

    69,000 female, 9,000 male rape victims per year visualised: get the full data | News | The Guardian
    That 'Only 2 to 8 Percent of Rape Accusations Are False' Stat Is Extremely Misleading | National Review Online

    Remember that the both the convicted rate and the proved false report rates are all of small percentages, rest are dwelling in the not sure area where there just isn't enough evidence to support either. Media just has the tendency to consider all and every non-concrete case as concluded rape case where the suspect is indeed guilty.

    And that's not fair at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    Do you have a source for this?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/think...raped-too.html

    It's really not news anymore to have male rape cases ignore or not acknowledged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mee2 View Post
    No one thinks mature women should be giving 5 year olds oral sex. That's absurd. If a woman were to do this, I'm not sure if it would be rape or sexual assault; either way it's still a serious crime and, if she were a teacher, she'd never be allowed to work in the industry again. Also, the definition of rape that you're using here is outdated. It was changed in response to feminist pressure. I assure you, forcing a man to have vaginal sex is definitely rape.
    https://www.alrc.gov.au/publications...sexual-offence

    The very first sentence of his government website says "Under the common law, rape was defined as carnal knowledge of a woman against her will and was subject to narrow and restrictive definitions of ‘sexual intercourse’." I am getting rather tired of searching by this point so I just skimmed through it, but the theme is common.

    A rape is defined to require penetration on the female, or penetration as a whole. I can't see how that is fair in terms of its definitions at all.

    Can have a look there:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law

    The general rule of thumb for rape defied by the FBI is that:

    “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

    In other words, if a man gets drugged, tied up and forced connect his genital with hers, in this case, the law does not recognise that the women did in fact rape the man without his consent. Because it's defined by "whether there is forced penetration", not "whether there is forced sex activities".

    .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Then these articles below are the ones that either wraps up everything up, or are just some that I don't know where to put.

    The other gender divide: where men are losing out | News | The Guardian
    One in Three Campaign - Male Victims of Family Violence
    Suicide and silence: why depressed men are dying for somebody to talk to | Society | The Guardian
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/yo...-women-anymore
    A letter to ‚€¶ the girl who accused me of rape when I was 15 | Life and style | The Guardian

    Now you have a lot of readings to do, get started.

    If there is really a gender equality movement, there shouldn't even be this amount of rubbish running around and NEVER gets public notice for some godly reason. It's about darn time we start realising and fixing male specific issues too instead of turning a blind eye to it like we're doing now.
    Last edited by Blue Sphere; 11-12-2015 at 12:31 AM.
    Noctis thanked this post.

  5. #85

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    Go a page back and read my other comments, they contain some.
    No they don't.

    You talk about men in general, but you never give a concrete example of one person, an actual person to whom something like this has happened.

  6. #86

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    No they don't.

    You talk about men in general, but you never give a concrete example of one person, an actual person to whom something like this has happened.
    I don't know anyone who is assaulted, raped or murdered either, doesn't mean there aren't any. I don't understand this logic.

  7. #87

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    I don't know anyone who is assaulted, raped or murdered either, doesn't mean there aren't any. I don't understand this logic.
    It's just a question.

    And to answer it you don't have to know someone to whom this has happened, you just have to know of someone to whom this has happened.

    Any group is the sum of its indiviuals. And since this problem is so widespread as you said, then shouldn't there be ample examples?

    I'm asking for such an example.

  8. #88

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    It's just a question.

    And to answer it you don't have to know someone to whom this has happened, you just have to know of someone to whom this has happened.

    Any group is the sum of its indiviuals. And since this problem is so widespread as you said, then shouldn't there be ample examples?

    I'm asking for such an example.
    I had the sources and everything I can find in my immediate surrounding in the other comment here on page 9. If you're only interested in individual case, well I guess there is a letter of a supposedly falsely accused rapist in the button of that post, for your convenience I have pulled it out for you.

    A letter to ‚€¶ the girl who accused me of rape when I was 15 | Life and style | The Guardian

    Please bear in mind that since the topic is very under reported by the news programs so it's rather hard to locate singular cases by default. But there are stats.
    Stickman thanked this post.

  9. #89

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Sphere View Post
    I am pretty sure I mentioned more than workplace death if you actually read any of them.
    No, I didn't read it. I'm giving you reasons and possible solutions and your response to every point is to whine like a damned baby about how men are victims.
    I don't want to hear it.

    There are so many things that these men could do to help their own communities but I don't see any of that. I just see complaining.



    And as I'm writing this I can see below that you did not cite evidence which specifically does not agree with you, and there is a lot.

    Reading any more from you would be an immense waste of my time.
    Last edited by Fumetsu; 11-12-2015 at 09:23 AM.
    Stickman thanked this post.

  10. #90

    "If anything ail a man, so that he does not perform his functions, if he have a pain in his bowels even … he forthwith sets about reforming—the world.” Thoreau

    (blaiming their own shortcomings on the world)


    When I hear the word 'activism', the question I always wonder is:

    Are you actually doing something to change things or are you just talking about it?
    Fumetsu thanked this post.


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