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People who feel like outcasts, stick to it?

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This is a discussion on People who feel like outcasts, stick to it? within the General Psychology forums, part of the Topics of Interest category; Originally Posted by Mirkwood The last part :). I thought it was clear. The psychology behind this.. why?.. Why stick ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirkwood View Post
    The last part :). I thought it was clear.

    The psychology behind this.. why?.. Why stick to something like that?.
    Why did they just sit down and conclude stuff like that, without even checking out if it was true or not. Hell, if I possibly had been doing an entire year unnessarily, I would right away seek to confirm, or disconfirm that.

    I wasn't the scapegoat.. not directly.. I did ofcourse get the thought and feeling that maybe they thought I then was one of favored ones who got treated better.
    Some people don't understand that it's not right. And some people do it because of their ego and pride, they don't want to admit they are wrong even though they know it, because they simply cannot lose.

    This is known as cognitive dissonance, where you are smarter, kinder, and do more than everyone else. Basically, you believe that you have more positive qualities and more amounts of positive qualities than everyone else.

    Here's a few links and a video if you are interested:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/s...g.html?mcubz=1
    Here's Why People Won't Admit They're Wrong - Culture, Brand, Identity: The Mojo Co.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...it-youre-wrong
    Here's a video of a different scenario related to that:
    Lovable thanked this post.

  2. #12

    So you are basically confused about why people keep acting in accordance with their view of the world.
    When it is so obviously not in line with your view of the world.

    Well think about it.
    This is how things appear to them, so they will continue to act like it is how things work.
    Your interruption is little more than noise in their ears.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittens Are Awesome View Post
    Some people don't understand that it's not right. And some people do it because of their ego and pride, they don't want to admit they are wrong even though they know it, because they simply cannot lose.

    This is known as cognitive dissonance, where you are smarter, kinder, and do more than everyone else. Basically, you believe that you have more positive qualities and more amounts of positive qualities than everyone else.

    Here's a few links and a video if you are interested:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/s...g.html?mcubz=1
    Here's Why People Won't Admit They're Wrong - Culture, Brand, Identity: The Mojo Co.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...it-youre-wrong
    Here's a video of a different scenario related to that:
    Hehe, that video has elements which I read about long ago, and haven't forgotten, the "over 100%" when asked about who did most.
    The thing is, their view is often not to view themselves in best light.. or well... it is also... but weird mix.



    Quote Originally Posted by Typology Jesus View Post
    So you are basically confused about why people keep acting in accordance with their view of the world.
    When it is so obviously not in line with your view of the world.

    Well think about it.
    This is how things appear to them, so they will continue to act like it is how things work.
    Your interruption is little more than noise in their ears.
    Haha, that is simply way of putting it, and your right :), thought we can also see them other views.

    xD... this "Your interruption is little more than noise in their ears." is exactly the feeling I get sometimes.
    Can be telling me ... "yeah yeah.. yeah yeah.. sure.. blablabla.. you think too much" or something like that, AND THEN, get onto whatever view their having. That things are unfair, others favored, their being discriminated, etc.

    Like I said in some other threads, then people are not to come to me if they want direct and fast agreement in something :D. Mostly likely I'll start off by saying ... "Well...."
    And then maybe they can quickly find someone else :D.
    .. It's like... if your smoking, and wanting to continue, you will find someone to justify it with.

    But totally guilty of some of this myself :).
    Inveniet thanked this post.

  4. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    This situation you describe is completely understood by the concept of worthlessness and shame and envy. The heart enneagram types suffer with this affectation of desire more than others do, but, since we all have all types to some degree it is interesting to note that this can happen to any of us.

    In this case the real problem is not anything that happened. I know that is confusing, but it is very true. All the happenings are just facts in evidence. It's the pre ready conclusion from the heart that was the issue. All heart types wallow in worthlessness as a predisposition. They have trouble with self-worth and this is their primary motivation.

    Low maturity of younger people and adults that have not earned wisdom from their suffering causes them to continue feeling this self-delivered and maintained sense of jealousy with others.

    Here is a breakdown that is crude but hits the high points:

    Type 2 - Worthless unless they can attach themselves to someone else and provide pragmatic external world assistance to them. This can literally mean they use their body to enslave themselves to good works. The battered wife is this type. The little old church lady that comes in on extra days of the week. They are martyrs and submissives.

    Type 3 - Worthless unless they can compete against others and do well. They must craft their images publicly and be seen as winners. Due to competition they are always comparing and feel shame if they cannot win or do very well. They cut short efforts in skills where they are not very quickly good at that skill. Thus, in the special case of wisdom, type 3 are often some of the world's most unwise folks despite being hard workers. That is because wisdom does not pay in the image sense to a weak self-image. And weak self-image is their number 1 issue. So we get a world of high achievers with low wisdom.

    Type 4 - Worthlessness unless they can shine. They have to be special in some way. They have to remain true to themselves. This can be pursued with reckless abandon if the 4 thinks their special type must do something destructive to be authentic which is very common. The envy is especially epic in the case of the 4 because they see wealth and the beauty that wealth can make easy out there and even though they may feel special inside they do not have this wealth and the immoral use of consequentialism causes them to hate themselves and their specialness because it doesn't get the good stuff. This is an internal world of hellish envy.

    ----

    The focus on favoritism and competition most closely matches the type 3 in your case, but the scenario was loaded that way. In any case the way out is to suggest that no matter what happens the other person restrain their feeling of worthlessness and not wallow in it. External factors cannot be accounted for in many cases. But internal ones remain their choice. If a person is treated unfairly by others or the system they have to decide NOT to let that get them down. Work, and work hard to change the system to be fairer to everyone.

    It sounds like she didn't realize that the oral part was perhaps less valued that the written, or maybe equally. She clearly considers herself higher or solidly equal on the social hierarchy that you and THAT feeling gave rise to the accusation of favoritism, eg How dare they give YOU a leg up (for any reason) over her. Competition is shame inducing and then the person needs an external excuse.

    Anyway, hope that helped.

    I am not really into enneagram types, but i gathered some from it :), thanks.

    I like most the last non-enneagram bit :).

    Sometimes it can be like they need suppressor, or some bully... from which there then can be justification of some sort about "we are still good, can do without", work hard and all.

    Favoritism is a thing, just way it is often, we have favorites of everything. But in school setting it shouldn't really matter, and not at all when it comes to exam scores. And it didn't. Tho will say that exam scores are riddles with flaws often, send the same written paper to 5 different teachers and you probably get 5 different results.


     
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