Genetic Neuroticism

Genetic Neuroticism

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Results 1 to 6 of 6
Thank Tree1Thanks
  • 1 Post By Octavarium

This is a discussion on Genetic Neuroticism within the General Psychology forums, part of the Topics of Interest category; For those who don't know neuroticism is supposedly hereditary at least in large part, if you have neurotic parents you'll ...

  1. #1

    Genetic Neuroticism

    For those who don't know neuroticism is supposedly hereditary at least in large part, if you have neurotic parents you'll probably have a neurotic kid, if you've two very stable parents you'll likely have a very stable kid. I find the whole topic of hereditary personality traits really fascinating, and I thought it'd be cool to see how this pattern manifests with you guys, or even if your family contradicts it?

    If you don't mind, describe for us whether you'd consider yourself neurotic, whether you'd say each of your parents are neurotic, and whether you'd consider each side of your family from both of them neurotic in general?

    Just for clarity, neurotic meaning prone to negative emotions. Depression, anger, any kind of anxiety, etc.




    I'd consider myself pretty neurotic. My mum isn't neurotic at all, my Y chromosome is about as neurotic as a person can possibly get. It gets a bit messy for me from here though, on both sides I have two half-siblings who each have their other parent different from me...

    On my non-neurotic mum's side I have a much older brother and sister with a different dad, I don't know their dad very well but from vague memory I wouldn't say he's especially neurotic, all I really remember though is he has a very loud voice and isn't very nice. Not abusive, just not nice. My brother is quite neurotic though he's only started showing it recently, very socially anxious, easily angered though he tries to restrain it, and from what I've heard as a kid he was always pretty miserable. He drinks whenever he can to make himself more positive, he's a bit of an alcoholic because of it. My sister isn't neurotic at all, it's not especially hard to annoy her and she rants about things that annoy her pretty often but she she doesn't get worked up about it. Apparently as a kid she was always beaming, one time she fell down the stairs, got up and said "whoopsie!" and carried on with her day. My brother has a daughter who's sweet but can be quite stroppy and very very anxious with people even for her age in certain situations, my sister has the most carefree daughter in the world. My mum's parents died before I was born but from what I've heard they were positive and nice people, no reason to think there's any neuroticism there. With my aunties and uncles and cousins on that side, definitely not much neuroticism there at all, they're all pretty chilled out and gregarious.

    On the neurotic other side I have two elder sisters with a different mum, their mum I wouldn't expect is neurotic, she seems quite upbeat. The eldest sister there I would say is very neurotic in a lot of ways very similar to me, she feels all kinds of anxiety easily and gets quite easily upset, she's had all kinds of eating disorders which she's thankfully over now, and I hate to ever speak badly of her but she can be a bit of a drama queen at times. With the other sister it's kind of hard to say, she does get angry pretty easily but I wouldn't say she gets depressed or anxious easily. The two of them row a lot because of the younger sister getting mad at the elder sister for her lifestyle choices. The elder sister has a son who's VERY neurotic, but he has iron deficiency and I think he might be autistic so it's hard to know how much is genetic. The younger sister has a daughter but she's still a baby, I don't think she cries any more than other babies in particular though. Those two sisters have a younger half-sister and brother with different dads, don't know the sister's dad, brother's dad I don't think is neurotic, seems to be in a good mood whenever I see him. Sister has the same temperament as the younger of my sisters on that side, brother's pretty chill. I don't know anyone from the rest of that side of the family but from what I've heard Y's dad was physically abusive to his mum and bullied him a lot when he was younger, which sounds like a red flag for neuroticism to me. Apparently his dad became a better person later though. Haven't a clue about his mum, only thing I've ever heard is my mum describing her as "weird" with an emphatic tone of voice she doesn't often use. He has siblings but I haven't heard much about them, all I know is they're apparently a lot nicer than him.
    Last edited by Pizzafari; 08-25-2019 at 05:46 PM.



  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    For those who don't know neuroticism is supposedly hereditary at least in large part, if you have neurotic parents you'll probably have a neurotic kid, if you've two very stable parents you'll likely have a very stable kid. I find the whole topic of hereditary personality traits really fascinating, and I thought it'd be cool to see how this pattern manifests with you guys, or even if your family contradicts it?
    I do not consider neuroticism a valid concept in general. I think that whereas there are indeed physical issues of the body that relate to personality traits and such, that CHOICES are the real truth. Saying that people inherit stability or neuroticism, says NOTHING about whether society is proper in the first place. If society is not proper for example, that inherited trait could be good, and not negative. That is because negative emotions towards a negative society is a positive thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    If you don't mind, describe for us whether you'd consider yourself neurotic, whether you'd say each of your parents are neurotic, and whether you'd consider each side of your family from both of them neurotic in general?
    Each of my top three vectors are Ennatypes that would often be considered neurotic. That is 8, 4, and 7. Neurotic is a Big 5 nonsensical term that sweeps valid virtues and personality types into a negatively connotated category. It is a dangerous and immoral system (to me). Technically only 3, 6, 9, and the strange exception of 1 are the non-neurotic enneatypes. There are very good reasons why this shows the Enneagram to be a superior personality assessment system than the Big 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    Just for clarity, neurotic meaning prone to negative emotions. Depression, anger, any kind of anxiety, etc.
    That is not the definition of neurotic in either sense, the classical meaning or the Big 5 meaning. Neurotic classically is a defunct designation no longer used in psychology mostly and in the Big 5 it just means nervous or sensitive.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    I'd consider myself pretty neurotic. My mum isn't neurotic at all, my Y chromosome is about as neurotic as a person can possibly get. It gets a bit messy for me from here though, on both sides I have two half-siblings who each have their other parent different from me...
    This is laughable. Chromosomes are not independently expressive of personality (as far as we know).

    ---

    Your definition of neuroticism is too confusing and confused to state anything by way of discussion.

    There are after all only 3 emotions, and they are fear, anger, and desire.

    Since you list anger as a source for neuroticism, and the Big 5 lists confidence (largely anger) as non-neurotic, there is no way to discuss this with you and remain coherent.

  3. #3

    Jesus man, I wasn't expecting this to turn into some stupid argument, I just wanted to talk about patterns in our families.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    I do not consider neuroticism a valid concept in general. I think that whereas there are indeed physical issues of the body that relate to personality traits and such, that CHOICES are the real truth. Saying that people inherit stability or neuroticism, says NOTHING about whether society is proper in the first place. If society is not proper for example, that inherited trait could be good, and not negative. That is because negative emotions towards a negative society is a positive thing.
    The brain is a physical part of the body. Its has become the way it is over billions of years of evolution. We don't have the same brains as our ancient ancestors because they've changed over time, and so we don't have the same mentalities as our ancestors. Natural selection made us the way we are today, but as in all things our brains have diversity in the hereditary temperaments we have as they allow us to contribute to our tribe in different ways. Eugenics. Agriculture has bred animals over millions of years to be more docile. Dog breeders have bred dogs breeds to have specific mentalities for different purposes. Slave markets bred slaves that were submissive to have a generation of more submissive slaves. This is basic psychology, mate. And I never made any claims to whether neuroticism is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know why you're arguing that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    Each of my top three vectors are Ennatypes that would often be considered neurotic. That is 8, 4, and 7. Neurotic is a Big 5 nonsensical term that sweeps valid virtues and personality types into a negatively connotated category. It is a dangerous and immoral system (to me). Technically only 3, 6, 9, and the strange exception of 1 are the non-neurotic enneatypes. There are very good reasons why this shows the Enneagram to be a superior personality assessment system than the Big 5.
    Okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    That is not the definition of neurotic in either sense, the classical meaning or the Big 5 meaning. Neurotic classically is a defunct designation no longer used in psychology mostly and in the Big 5 it just means nervous or sensitive.
    It's exactly the definition of neuroticism in the Big 5. Many breakdowns and tests even measure depressiveness, anger, anxiety etc as individual measurements that it compares when determining a person's overall neuroticism. When talking about how neurotic a person is casually most people take it to mean the person is to unhappy emotional outbursts.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    This is laughable. Chromosomes are not independently expressive of personality (as far as we know).
    1. I call him my Y chromosome as a joke because I don't like to call him my dad
    2. See my first paragraph

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    Your definition of neuroticism is too confusing and confused to state anything by way of discussion.
    I don't know what definitions you've been reading but it's the only definition of neuroticism I've ever been given and I've been given it by many people. I don't see how "prone towards negative emotion" is remotely confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    There are after all only 3 emotions, and they are fear, anger, and desire.
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Who have you been taking psychology information from? Have you never felt happiness or sadness before? You can't boil down the spectrum of human emotion to just three emotions, that's absolutely ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    there is no way to discuss this with you and remain coherent.
    Clearly.

    Warning: My posts are crafted as statements. This means I believe what I am arguing for. It means I profess it as truth or truth-aiming or wise. It is in the nature of these arguments, indeed their sacred purpose, to persuade others or challenge others to take a hard look at themselves and their in general shabbily held moral beliefs. Since I believe in the fundamental equality of worthiness of all life, this is not disdain, nor condescension. It is an attempt to share wisdom.
    Putting this as your signature isn't an excuse to be condescending. I don't want to wake up to find myself being called laughable in response to what I hoped would be a nice conversation about genetics and families. If you don't want to be condescending or disdainful then re-read what you say next time and consider whether in the recipient's position you'd think the person posting it is being an asshole. Otherwise don't talk to me.
    Last edited by Pizzafari; 08-26-2019 at 02:47 AM.

  4. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    Jesus man, I wasn't expecting this to turn into some stupid argument, I just wanted to talk about patterns in our families.
    Characterizing arguments as stupid means ALL arguments are stupid, which is not true. What someone wants in many ways is not relevant. Actions have consequences. Posting a topic on a public forum about which people have opinions is ASKING for a response. Not all responses will meet what YOU want as a goal. Much of what you get will meet other people's goals tangential to that response. Exasperation as a result of this public discourse is disingenuous, but of course, quite possible. I accept it, even if I disagree with the reason for it.

    Still, I apologize for being frustrating and not chiming in with only your gist in mind. It's almost like I anticipated a dialogue where your wants and mine could dance around and see if there was any intersection at all. How terrible of me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    The brain is a physical part of the body. Its has become the way it is over billions of years of evolution. We don't have the same brains as our ancient ancestors because they've changed over time, and so we don't have the same mentalities as our ancestors. Natural selection made us the way we are today, but as in all things our brains have diversity in the hereditary temperaments we have as they allow us to contribute to our tribe in different ways. Eugenics. Agriculture has bred animals over millions of years to be more docile. Dog breeders have bred dogs breeds to have specific mentalities for different purposes. Slave markets bred slaves that were submissive to have a generation of more submissive slaves. This is basic psychology, mate.
    Essentially you and I agree on most of that. But the very neuroplasticity you refer to and granted this has a genetic starting point, is affected as you mention by epigenetics and thus in fact by CHOICE. ... THAT is all I was really getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    And I never made any claims to whether neuroticism is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know why you're arguing that point.
    You may not, but Big 5 and most typing and psychological systems do. So when I hear people chatting about that, I admit I get concerned that they are 'buying in' to that delusional position. Still, rather than bothering to say that you didn't commit one way or the other, why not say what you DO believe. That would be much better and less disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    It's exactly the definition of neuroticism in the Big 5. Many breakdowns and tests even measure depressiveness, anger, anxiety etc as individual measurements that it compares when determining a person's overall neuroticism. When talking about how neurotic a person is casually most people take it to mean the person is to unhappy emotional outbursts.
    No, it is not the same. And your thinking it is is confused although there are a lot of people, even some 'experts' in the field that might agree.

    All traits are on a sliding scale of moral aims. What many people call 'negative' or 'depression' is a positive thing taken in the right doses and with the right intents and follow-through. Its the immoral patterns that yield 'bad' results, not the 'negative' ones mentioned. And I do feel as though neuroticism is negatively characterized by most system fans of the Big 5, and many of the 'experts'. In fact I think the Big 5 is very Capitalist mainstream sell out schlock. It is, in effect, gaslighting, and that is an accurate use of the term, unlike your use of condescending to me, as the intent truly is meant to be disingenuous, even if the system did not start out that way or had innocent creators. It's like the A-bomb of personality systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    1. I call him my Y chromosome as a joke because I don't like to call him my dad
    2. See my first paragraph
    (I am) Completely sorry! Missed that one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    I don't know what definitions you've been reading but it's the only definition of neuroticism I've ever been given and I've been given it by many people. I don't see how "prone towards negative emotion" is remotely confusing.
    If you've been given a definition by many people, that definition is wrong. 'Many people' cannot get things correct. But maybe that is too neurotic of an answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Who have you been taking psychology information from? Have you never felt happiness or sadness before? You can't boil down the spectrum of human emotion to just three emotions, that's absolutely ridiculous.
    All other emotions besides fear, anger, and desire are mixes of those three.

    Happiness and sadness are not really an emotions. Neither is love. Love is a meta emotion encompassing all other emotions. Happiness and sadness are the reward and punishment systems of love. One is the result of acting in alignment with objective moral truth (being GOOD) and the other is the result of acting out of alignment with it (being bad). It is not ridiculous. It is a MORE CORRECT observation of this reality (than most current ones). Think about it. And yes, I know I am annoying, but really, why is that? I do mean well and that is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzafari View Post
    Putting this as your signature isn't an excuse to be condescending. I don't want to wake up to find myself being called laughable in response to what I hoped would be a nice conversation about genetics and families. If you don't want to be condescending or disdainful then re-read what you say next time and consider whether in the recipient's position you'd think the person posting it is being an asshole. Otherwise don't talk to me.
    There is nothing to distinguish a teacher from a condescending asshole apart from intent. Granted my tact in delivery is perhaps not cloying and careful enough sometimes, most of the time. But that does not mean that I am not trying to help. I am genuinely trying to prevent moral decay and damage in our society (as everyone should). I did re-read the whole thing. I do not mean to (just) frustrate and annoy people. But I am willing to if that is what it takes to challenge them to do better in their understanding. I admit I could be wrong. I remain unconvinced that I am wrong in the way you think I was. I am also willing to cease debating this topic if you are.

  5. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    Characterizing arguments as stupid means ALL arguments are stupid, which is not true. What someone wants in many ways is not relevant. Actions have consequences. Posting a topic on a public forum about which people have opinions is ASKING for a response. Not all responses will meet what YOU want as a goal. Much of what you get will meet other people's goals tangential to that response. Exasperation as a result of this public discourse is disingenuous, but of course, quite possible. I accept it, even if I disagree with the reason for it. Still, I apologize for being frustrating and not chiming in with only your gist in mind. It's almost like I anticipated a dialogue where your wants and mine could dance around and see if there was any intersection at all. How terrible of me!
    It was a stupid argument because I don't appreciate being told what I say is "laughable". If you want to have a civil discussion about it I'm very very happy to, I love discussing this kind of thing, but don't expect me to be civil if you're going to belittle me. And I don't appreciate the sarcasm either. Clearly you haven't considered why you got the reaction from me that you did and you're going to continue with the same tone, so I'm to continue with the same level of civility.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    Essentially you and I agree on most of that. But the very neuroplasticity you refer to and granted this has a genetic starting point, is affected as you mention by epigenetics and thus in fact by CHOICE. ... THAT is all I was really getting at.
    Of course. I have no problem with the argument that choice is involved. But there are foundations, and aspects of what is here defined as a person's neuroticism are known to at least IN PART, as I said in my post, not in WHOLE, be inherited from parents. There are other factors, which is why I was expecting to see anomalies in peoples' responses, and I was interested to hear about them. Two neurotic parents will PROBABLY have a neurotic child. Two stable parents will PROBABLY have a stable child. I made no claims of certainty in my post, you created them yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    You may not, but Big 5 and most typing and psychological systems do. So when I hear people chatting about that, I admit I get concerned that they are 'buying in' to that delusional position. Still, rather than bothering to say that you didn't commit one way or the other, why not say what you DO believe. That would be much better and less disingenuous.
    I have no strong belief one way on the other, and I'd have no responsibility to say what it was if I did, it was irrelevant to the question. The purpose was partly to see if there WAS any kind of pattern that would support it, or if peoples' stories would contradict it. You say you expect me to read more into your intent later in your post, but you clearly assumed mine without reason to.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    No, it is not the same. And your thinking it is is confused although there are a lot of people, even some 'experts' in the field that might agree.

    All traits are on a sliding scale of moral aims. What many people call 'negative' or 'depression' is a positive thing taken in the right doses and with the right intents and follow-through. Its the immoral patterns that yield 'bad' results, not the 'negative' ones mentioned. And I do feel as though neuroticism is negatively characterized by most system fans of the Big 5, and many of the 'experts'. In fact I think the Big 5 is very Capitalist mainstream sell out schlock. It is, in effect, gaslighting, and that is an accurate use of the term, unlike your use of condescending to me, as the intent truly is meant to be disingenuous, even if the system did not start out that way or had innocent creators. It's like the A-bomb of personality systems.
    Yes, it is. And nothing in the rest of this segment has anything to do with that or anything I've said so I'm not interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    If you've been given a definition by many people, that definition is wrong. 'Many people' cannot get things correct. But maybe that is too neurotic of an answer.
    Oosh! Clever! Give yourself a gold star, you've earned it, you handsome little lexicon, you.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    All other emotions besides fear, anger, and desire are mixes of those three.

    Happiness and sadness are not really an emotions. Neither is love. Love is a meta emotion encompassing all other emotions. Happiness and sadness are the reward and punishment systems of love. One is the result of acting in alignment with objective moral truth (being GOOD) and the other is the result of acting out of alignment with it (being bad). It is not ridiculous. It is a MORE CORRECT observation of this reality (than most current ones). Think about it. And yes, I know I am annoying, but really, why is that? I do mean well and that is important.
    That's absolutely ridiculous. How are you even defining emotions? Emotions are chemical reactions in response to certain stimuli that make you feel a certain way, positive or negative. Negative here meaning in a manner that you dislike, before you play the semantics game with me again. I won't pretend to be an expert on the matter but love is a chemical reaction experienced with people. We're social creatures, so we have social inclinations, as you touched on yourself with objective morality. I'm not in love when I play my favourite video games, there's no interpersonal connection there, in fact I'm completely on my own, neither am I being "good", I'm acting entirely in my own interests. Nor am I afraid, angry, or greedy. I don't care how well you mean, don't expect people to worship you for all the good you're doing for them if you're going to come at them like you're better than them.

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    There is nothing to distinguish a teacher from a condescending asshole apart from intent. Granted my tact in delivery is perhaps not cloying and careful enough sometimes, most of the time. But that does not mean that I am not trying to help. I am genuinely trying to prevent moral decay and damage in our society (as everyone should). I did re-read the whole thing. I do not mean to (just) frustrate and annoy people. But I am willing to if that is what it takes to challenge them to do better in their understanding. I admit I could be wrong. I remain unconvinced that I am wrong in the way you think I was. I am also willing to cease debating this topic if you are.
    Alright there, Batman.

    I absolutely believe intent is the most important factor to look at in a person's actions, but that's no excuse to be pompous in your actions. Don't belittle, it's as simple as that, and don't approach someone as though you're some moral or logical superior, most people have no respect for that. If you're hostile in your arguments towards someone, they're not going to listen to you and are going to respond in kind, because rather than a conversational partner you've become an antagonist to them, all you'll be doing is stroking your own ego. Do whatever you want, I've asked for the thread to be locked because it won't stay on topic after this.
    Last edited by Pizzafari; 08-26-2019 at 05:11 AM.

  6. #6

    Closed on OP's request.
    Pizzafari thanked this post.


     

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] Programs that target high neuroticism
    By Targus28 in forum INFP Forum - The Idealists
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  2. [ISFJ] Neuroticism Test
    By HandiAce in forum ISFJ Forum - The Nurturers
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-10-2012, 10:17 PM
  3. [INFP] My story of Liberal Values, Social Neuroticism and Need, Depression, & Future Hope
    By Up and Away in forum INFP Forum - The Idealists
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-26-2011, 12:31 AM
  4. Neuroticism - the mother of creation!
    By Obsidean in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-09-2011, 06:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:10 AM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0