Four wing Five question

Four wing Five question

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This is a discussion on Four wing Five question within the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 forums, part of the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum category; I’m a 4w5, and I’m wanting some feedback from any others with the same type. The more I read about ...

  1. #1

    Four wing Five question

    I’m a 4w5, and I’m wanting some feedback from any others with the same type. The more I read about my type, the more I realize how idiosyncratic and internal we are, and how prone to feeling and being alone. Are there any other 4w5 types out there (or if you know of any) who could speak to this? Basically, is the 4w5 destined to end up alone?
    joup thanked this post.

  2. #2
    Type 6w5

    Ok, I'm not a 4, and I don't really know any I can ask, but maybe this help (while not answering your question...):

    Check the 'Healthy ideas' part here: Eneatipo 4: SUBTIPOS, EJEMPLOS, cómo TRATARLO, su ORIGEN . You can create some habits to practice, remember these. For example each day, before going to sleep remember what good has happened to you that day and what good feelings have you felt, or even better, when you feel something positive try to notice it and take time to enjoy it.

  3. #3
    Type 8w7

    4 5 and 9 are all "withdrawn" types. On top of that, 4 is a "receiving" energy, while 5 is a "giving" energy. So you're primarily withdrawn and receiving, so generally speaking, you are supposed to be approached. If you wind up being too alone and are lonely, maybe you'll enjoy connecting if you just tried to be more approachable.

    To me, 4s are like sirens from The Odyssey. They live on an island and play beautiful music to attract sailors and then... devour them whole. To resist the 4 takes force, like strapping yourself down to the mast of the ship.

    Obviously a 4 shouldn't just be left alone on the island just because they devour people. No one should be sentenced to loneliness like that. That's just... where you live. But you have to interact.
    wendypeffercorn, Anunnaki Spirit and prsvrnc thanked this post.

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  5. #4

    I am very happy alone till I’m not
    Zeta 97 and petrip thanked this post.

  6. #5
    Type 4

    i often feel like this is true, yeah... I think fours main issue is a connection to the longing, not really what we’re longing for. Once we get what we want, it’s new and scary and if we have a lack of foundation in terms of identity or confidence or whatever, we tend to self-sabotage ourselves into rejecting love. What we’re comfortable with is the sitting alone and waiting for someone to come and sweep us off our feet and understand all of us and be authentically themselves with us, but we have these fears of the real thing not matching up to what we hoped for, and a fear of our own selves not matching up to the person we hope to be. I find that I kind of put myself through this really painful cycle because it’s all i know how to do. I crave vulnerability but at the same time i’m terrified of it... and I don’t know how to change 😕

    in regards to making ourselves more available, I don’t even ever know how I come off to people. Obviously i’m not going to make the first move, but I think at least that I’m pretty approachable, until a friend tells me they were scared of me at first and how unapproachable I am. Putting myself out there is really not something I’m comfortable with, and I need people to draw me out. I find that not a lot of people care to, though, and that’s when I feel pretty bad about myself.
    wendypeffercorn and petrip thanked this post.

  7. #6

    Thank you, SolMoon. It's interesting--something I do unintentionally (and I learned other INFPs do) is think of funny scenarios-whether real or fictitious--throughout the day that make me laugh out loud. I read somewhere that people see INFPs chuckling to themselves about something they're thinking. Practicing intentional gratefulness is a good practice, but your response just reminded me that I also do the whole "chuckling to myself" thing as well which can genuinely lift my spirits.

  8. #7

    Okay, WOAH--Stelliferous, you're really onto something here, and you're using language about the Enneagram I haven't heard yet, which doesn't really happen at this point, so you have my attention.

    -I've never heard of "energies" in regards to the Types. What does that mean, and where can I get more information on that?

    -Oddly enough, even though I've never heard of Type energies, describing me as withdrawn and receiving sounds scarily accurate. (Caveat: I've gone through different phases in my life with varying durations where withdrawn would not describe me at all. Maybe the INFP takes a long time to settle into him/herself?)

    -I'm sure you know this already, but the Odyssey is actually an allegory of the Enneagram! And--surprise--the siren part does represent the Four--however, it's unclear whether it's Odysseus himself (at least in the moment) or the sirens who are supposed to represent the life experience of the Four. (And while we're on the subject, there's a song called Ulysses by one Josh Garrels that tells this song in achingly beautiful poetry.)

    --For the love, explain what you mean by Fours "devour people whole." They're too needy? Too self-focused? What? This idea unnerves me very much, and frankly I feel a bit sick about it.

    -Lastly, even though I am shy, and often feel that I don't connect with as many people as others tend to, I really do put forth effort to engage.

  9. #8

    Lavalamp, I know what you mean about needing others to draw you out. It takes a lot of effort for me to put myself in someone's view, and with strangers, I pretty much wait to be addressed before I engage.

    Approachable-ness: I've had to be conscious of my facial expression, and make sure I'm smiling when around anyone new, as a stoic face can definitely turn people away. I totally know what you mean about people not caring to draw you out. I don't know if you feel the same here, but I guess mostly I'm "withdrawn" (so I'm told) because I can't judge a person's genuine interest level or willingness to know until they probe me. I just don't have that initial "social competition", if you will, when meeting people to convince them that I'm interesting. I guess this is what withdrawn looks like? But depending on how much effort they put forth, this wall can fall down very quickly.

    Longing: I've certainly been told again and again that Fours are addicted to longing, and that they would prefer to long for what is absent than to actually possess it. I just want to call bull**** on this. We may have a propensity for longing, but having is better than longing. I'm done with longing, done with lacking--I'm ready to actually have what I desire. It bothers me to be told that Fours would prefer to merely long for what they want; it sounds so twisted and also implies we can never be happy. I also want to say that there have been things I longed for, then actually attained them, and they were as wonderful as I imagined they would be. So take that, Enneagram. I've also heard of the self-sabotage, but...honestly, there's so much here, it's hard to sort through. I guess in a way I may have a fear of reality not matching up to my ideals, and I guess the bottom line is I wonder if "love" is something that I can even feel--or if my ideals have tainted it so badly, my heart is too far gone.

    Just curious, do you know your wing? There's so much to each type, and I hear a lot about the Four that I don't internalize, but others do. Maybe wings can create all the diversity?
    prsvrnc thanked this post.

  10. #9
    Type 4w5

    @wendypeffercorn Destined to be alone? Starting off, perhaps. Majority of 4w5's are unhealthy so they tend to be loners but once they decide they want to live their life they can learn to connect with others again.

    Also, it's good to know the difference between the instincts. Very briefly if you're not familiar with them Social (so) 4's tend to be the most sensitive of all the types. They want others to see them suffering in hopes that others will give them love. Though unconscious they tend to play the victim role. Sexual (sx) 4's are the competitive ones. They tend to feel inferior and to counter that they become competitive to be superior to others. Often are arrogant but only because they are trying to hide their inferiority. And lastly, Self-Preservation (sp) 4's are the counter-type because they are the least like the 4 description which I believe is your instinct. Social-pres 4's are stoic and have a high capacity to endure. They don't complain about their suffering instead they go after whatever they desire despite the challenge. The index has descriptions of the instincts by Beatrice Chestnut which is definitely worth a read if you haven't already

  11. #10
    Type 4w5

    I'm your type and I could say I'm addicted to longing. I had moments when I would actually got what I wanted so bad and just like that it becomes uninteresting for me all of a sudden, and I don't want it anymore, or I just think that that was to easy to get, so I quickly try to find something new. It is sick, because that way I never know have I actually wanted it or I just saw it as a challenge and test for myself to see can I get what I want when I want it. If I suffer because I see I can't get that one thing, my longing for it starts to fade away. That is what I'm going through rn and it is fading very slow, almost like I have that little light of hope inside of me till the last point of my longing, but I know that if I get that that's it, I'm going to bale it right away once it is mine, because I don't really want it when I think about it, but my current emotions are telling me I do, but then again when I actualy think of it as it is mine I wouldnt know what to do with it, I don't like it anymore, but even knowing that I still want it beacuse i cant have it. What now??

    For me it's like I don't really want anything but being alone, and once I am I'm feeling sorry for myself and trying to see if anyone will notice and offer me their company, but when they do I often don't accept it, cause I feel better on my own, or it just isn't someone I want, or because that reality is not like it is in my imagination. I tend to imagine something that would work perfectly for me, and when it isn't that exact way, I'm done with it. I'm always disappointed with my reality because it is so much better in my imagination, so I rather dream about it than accept it the way it is. I love being alone, in my own world. I learned a lot about all this when I'm talking to somebody online, it could be perfect and everything it possibly could be but even then I tend to refuse to make a step more, eg bring it in reality and actually see who that person is, because I think it would just ruin that perfect image I have in my head, so I just deal with that stage when I'm feeling it is perfect and don't want it to get real.
    I'm unhealthy INFP 4w5
    prsvrnc thanked this post.

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