It's pretty straight forward... but how do you distinguish the two?
This is a discussion on How Do You Tease Apart 3w4 from 4w3 within the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 forums, part of the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum category; It's pretty straight forward... but how do you distinguish the two?...
It's pretty straight forward... but how do you distinguish the two?
4w3 dwells on and bases their identity on emotion, feelings of victimhood and eccentric self-indulgence, 3w4 generally doesn't. Sexual 3w4s can be 4-esque, but they're still essentially more about style than substance.
1.) What does eccentric self indulgence mean?
2.) Why does a 3w4 SX look like 4?
2) They can often be more freaky and eccentric with their image than other 3s, but it's all about the image itself rather than true personal resonance.
1.) 3w4 looks kind of like my image type rather than 4w3
2.) Freaky and eccentric would be like quirkyness? Because I have sort of taken my quirkiness and sort of made it "work" for me sometimes
3.) Does a healthy 3w4 become like 6w7?
I've been having some trouble planting my heart fix. The tussle is between 3w4 and 4w3, so I was happy to see this thread.
What you are saying, essentially, @cudibloop, is that a 3w4 will naturally strive to adhere to some culturally accepted image of value whereas a 4w3 will naturally strive to adhere to a personal image of value?
How then, does one distinct between a 4 and 3 if the type 4 envisions a personal image of value that coincides with a cultural vision of value such as, for example, becoming a successful and renowned lawyer?
Do you think a type 4 has inherit feelings of inadequacy or feeling a step behind the rest of the crowd? Or can a less confident 3 feel the same way? Do you think a type 4 values/prides succeeding in the face of adversity whereas a type 3 is only annoyed by adversity? Or is this a value shared by both?
I'm sorry if I'm treating you as an ultimate authority, I know there isn't really one, but I'm curious about these things -- are there any other valuable distinctions you can offer?
I liked your answers thus far which is why I may seem like I'm prying.
I had to do CBT to find my enneagram. The thing is, people don't generally know what they're motivations are. Just first understand 'why' you did something.
i.e. - 'I felt bad when I told her that'
'Why? did you feel bad'
'Because it didn't feel right'
'Why is it so bad that it didn't feel right?'
'Because it means I cannot be the person she wants me to be'
'Why is that so bad?'
Do a couple of these, and pretend to be a detective and find the common thread among your core motivations. First of you'll find maybe your wing and if you keep sticking with this method, and developing more questions of certain thoughts over time - then you will be able to find the even stronger type, and that's your core enneagram type. Or maybe, the first one is the core enneagram type, the more you do the better at least.
The issue with most people who try to enneagram type themselves, they can't outline their core motivations by just understanding 'which of the two possibilities' fit them like 'do you feel inadequacy for... this or that?' etc. The thing with that is, that you're just going to end up pigeonholing one side of your character (as experts that rally on youtube discuss, - all 9 types of enneagram are within everyone to a certain degree), and if you just outline one of two options, you will outline one side of your character and start believing that to be your core type when it isn't at all.
And as you know, motivations don't determine 'how you look' (that seems to be a common misconception with pretty much everyone here). You can never judge a person by the way the perform their actions. For example, everyone believes me to be an achievement seeking type 3, who 'molds himself into an ideal' - it sounds the most like me. I still believe that is MOST like me, because in my head I have a lawyer voice going on and all I want is to achieve something right now. And I've actually got confirmation that I am a lot like that from people close to me (who I agree with), but the thing is, it's just my wing, and I do those things to hide my inner feelings as a way people do not get too close to my 'fucked up internal landscape'. I do all these achievement-like things, but the truth is, they're all driven by these type four motivations. I only realized that fully, and trusted in it, once I evaluated how/why I get thoughts to do things, almost out of habit. Which oddly enough, is similar to finding 'unhelpful thoughts' through CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), except there's much more dense evaluation and 'challenging thoughts' in CBT that you can't find in enneagram typing.
I know this because it's been a good year, I've been obsessing back and forth between each type until I actually sat down and analyzed my motivations before I applied it to the nine types. In other words, enneagram is far different from MBTI, and you can't just go 'I don't have Ne, therefore I have Ni', etc it's more 'This is why I choose to do pretty much all that I do - it is a common thread across all my thoughts; therefore I am a type four'.
not to be flip, but: one of the differences between a 3w4 and a 4w3 is that a 3w4 has a job. like, an actual job. that pays money.
3w4s are far more concerned with glory and 'bona fide'ness than 4w3s, IMO. 4w3s just want to be the smartest, sexiest, and most beautiful in the room. if you're all of those things you won't need a job because someone will come rescue you and take you away from all that. then you'll (4w3) be at your best because you won't be competing with anyone- a great friend and confidant, loving and wonderful. competition makes you ugly.
3w4s want glory. they feel like frauds, and even though they hate it, they thrive on it. 4w3s never feel like frauds. Only like special-needs children sometimes.
Also, some 4w3s actually enjoy competition and taking on challenges. If anything I think as a type 4w3s are prone to ambition - which is not to say that 4w3s are ambitious, I'm aware there are plenty of exceptions. Oh, and about 4w3s being lazy... people who have a poor work ethic have only themselves to blame. 4w3s in touch with their 3 wing should be capable of hard work, planning, and everything else that goes into success.
One more thing - as lovely as fantasies are nobody is going to rescue you. Ultimately we have to rescue ourselves and it's not fair to expect someone else to do that. Sure, being in a relationship is lovely but it's hardly the answer to all of your problems and if you expect it to be you are going to put a lot of pressure on relationship. Now, maybe you weren't referring to yourself but I think it's awfully presumptuous to assume that all 4w3s are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality.