It is not a bad thing, just inaccurate in my opinion.
This is a discussion on Which heart type is more charming and attractive -3w2 versus 2w3? within the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 forums, part of the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum category; Originally Posted by iMaven Yesss i do. :P Ok, that is nice but how long will you last? I'm afraid ...
It is not a bad thing, just inaccurate in my opinion.
environmental conditions (but not just parental conditioning),
and free will.
The way that anyone assembles the ego structures will indefinitely be through the process of their enneagram.
just an opinion.
lol.. of course those viewpoints are debatable. They are viewpoints, afterall, not the ramblings of an omniscient being. I see it in application in other ppl as well, so I think it's how consciousness works, simply put.
"I don't think any theory is perfect, disproving the validity of your argument already. ". what are you, an 8?
lol just because you don't think it is 'perfect'.. my argument is no longer valid? Well i don't think 2+2=4. so don't try to argue that with me...
you argue in the first place because you don't think the others viewpoint is correct.. that premise is for further discussion, not for a conclusion that their argument is invalid. that isn't very productive.
do you know your tri-type yet?
As i stated, ther
Oh, really? That sounds like an interesting read. Did you sell it to a bookstore?
You as an individual may see the correspondence between your enneagram and your personality traits/ways of reacting to the environment but someone else may be blind as a bat (such as myself, still learning about my 'enneagram'). I understood what you were saying, and I was saying that what may be the case for you, may not be the case for everyone else out there - that's all :D
As for your mathematical calculation, well done! ;-)
Please don't take offence to my aggressive nature.
It's just an approach, i guess I could work on it. :-)
i've had a lot of people over here read up on the enneagram. lol i'm pretty good at typing, but it's always better when it's a couple so they both have insight to offer.. people aren't as blind to their basic functions as you'd think when they read it in a couple of eloquent paragraphs.
it would just take a lot of time/research for one to feel really satisfied with their enneagram. that's my goal :).
people aren't molded into truly free will based people. the freedom we believe we have is a facade. the choices we have are growing fewer by the year.
There's a difference in how much your free will shapes your actual personality vs how much free will affects your actions.
it's pretty sad how unconscious people are
okay let me give it some thought.
Environmental Conditioning (but not just parental conditioning) – This is a big influence on personality and although it does not necessarily change our ‘basic structure’, it is something that may shape our approach to life, including things such as communication style, dress manner, and other cultural variants.
Free Will – Plays the biggest part potentially in my opinion. We can reach in and change our destiny, our selves, our lives, and our views/values if we are willing to. Free will is not what you can do, but more what you are willing to endure to be the one that will say ‘I will do it’.
long ass reply. you might jst want to merge this into a pm..
welll i was really upset during hs one day.. and I just couldn't hold in my emotions any longer, so I tried to figure out why I was so imbalanced. i just began writing furiously and the first part of my life was on paper half an hr later. lol only reason i mentioned the paper was jst cuz i was saying that psycho-analysis came natural to some people. I basically said the fact that i had 0 friends in elementary caused me to be unnaturally clingy.
i agree it was that ego construct combined with my sx/so energies and my 4.. making me be the overdramatic tragic romantic i've been in the past. the fact that i don't want to think about it is sad in itself! but i gotta give it some thought soon. it's a part of my life i need to address on an emotional level.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.
and they do say that. lol sounds a bit unrealistic if you ask me... gives 4s even more of a melodramatic flair..
Though i'd say that's more associative when there's a 5 influence; either through having that wing, or due to it being part of your thinking center.
otherwise we're not as "dark". i guess that's what that saying is referring too.. delving into our own darkness. (intensifying moods is quite common)
I don't see why you have to "live" within an enneagram (it lives within you!).. lol you have to approach the enneagram as a tool, not an outfit you throw on or a box you move into. if you're so afraid of boxes, let me assure you that the enneagram is composed of not 3, not 4, but 5 dimensions.. you have your Core layout (whether you identify first/second/third with your head/heart/gut.), your instinctual stackings (good chart on instinctual stackings here: http://www.enneagramdimensions.net/a...ationships.pdf ), your wing possibilities, and your healthy level. plus the stress/integrating lines.
that's 5-6D right there.
once you're knowledgeable enough on the enneagram to see your different connections and wings in actions, and you work on growing.. you'll begin to embody in more depth the many positive aspects of your enneagram. since you have 3 cores with a wing each, that's 6 out of 9 potentially. each of those 6 have an integrating line. that's 12 points touched on right there. chances are you've touched every number on the circle.. So there really aren't any "constraints". but i don't really get what's being constrained here? your fulfillment? so you're a 3w2? okay let me put a couple things here..
"3: Fear of being worthless or without inherent value.
2: Fear of being unworthy of being loved.
3: the desire to be valuable (deteriorates into chasing after success)
2: The desire to be loved (deteriorates into the need to be needed).
"An invitation to abundance"
3s To develop yourself and set an example for others. Remember that it is your true nature to take pleasure in your existence and to esteem and value others.
2s: To nurture yourself and others. Remember that it is your true nature to be good to yourself and to have goodwill and compassion for others.
Twos attempt to get a sense of value by saying, "I know I am valuable because others love and value me. I do good things for people, and they appreciate me." Twos are rescuers. On the opposite side of the spectrum, fours are rescuees. Fours tell themselves "I know I am valuable because I am unique and unlike anyone else. I am special because someone took the trouble to rescue me. Someone is taking the trouble to attend to my distress so i must be worthwhile." (so true..) "Threes are paragons who do not need rescuing, as if to say "I know I am valuable because I've got my act together-there's nothing wrong with me. I am valuable because of my accomplishments." Despite their individual methods for "building self-esteem", all three of these types lack a proper love of self. "..."By attempting to feel valuable by means of their self-image, these types hope to escape feelings of shame. Twos become ultragood, trying to be caring and of service to others so that they will not feel shame. Threes become perfect in their performance and outstanding in their achievements so they will be able to resist feeling shame. Fours avoid deeper feelings of shame by dramatizing their losses and hurts by seeing themselves as victims."
I identify soo strongly with 4. a lot with 3 . an quite a bit with 2. then again, they are in my tri-type. 7,8, and 9 are the ones I do not identify with..
I jst wrote all of that as a reminder..
i guess by freedom i should have said "liberty". liberty is freedom being institutionalized. it's not like there's a "code". if you want to view it that way, go ahead.
see, you're missing the big picture here..I'm referring to society as a whole. err, well culture would be a bit more accurate. or our government. That's a wholeee nother topic tho, and i don't want to get into how sad it is living in this country.. for instance, if you're a protest organizer or have radical views (ron paul/ 3rd party..), these fusion centers put your name in a database.. mark you a threat to society as well. You can't tell me that doesn't impinge on the application of my free will. Sure I can still go ahead and do that... but i'm putting myself at risk by doing so. therefore the decision making was altered by external influences... that interferes with my free will. the american dream is just meant to propagate elitism/dividing. sigh neways.
plus, this wouldn't happen. I am a type 4 and I will always identify with it. It is the truth. I have thought many times to myself that I was an ever changing person. It was because my perception of 'being' was pretty limited and unfounded. (before i knew about the enneagram)
If you had more research under your belt, or a little bit more help guiding your search, you'd end up being satisfied with your enneagram..
It's worsened the fact that there hast' been enough type/tri-type research by enough people. people mistype left and right because they don't know their own tri-type, or get confused and give up due to many similarities with multiple types. there's a reason the people i know the best in person have been identifying with a core from the thinking/feeling/ and instinctual center (only one core each.. and also with a certain core wing subtype explanation.. for instance 1w2 5w6.) .. it's because it's the way our consciousness interacts. it needs a "nucleus" for each aspect.
my gf tried to argue this last night when i showed her your post... well you're both misunderstanding innate temperament.. innate means before any influence. "unconditioned: not established by conditioning or learning".
furthermore, as i've said earlier, our environmental conditions can impinge on our free will.
picture this.. lets say you have a bad memory you haven't gotten over completely yet (haven't really cried it all out or felt it all out.. whatever your method is.. me, i like to meditate) . well if you bring that memory up into consciousness.. you're going to start feeling some negative energy. that's an example of an ego structure. it has to be composed of energy because it affects you on a somatic(bodily) level. plus even on a deeper level. T
We all know about how memories factor, unconsciously, into our reactions everyday. i think they're just ego constructs that we haven't gotten rid of yet.. or that we could still slowly be in the process of breaking down.
this is why i think innate temperament isn't negative or volatile at all. We have just accumulated ego structures with negative foundations. All this deep negativity manifests in lack of fulfillment, confidence, patience, etcetc.. there's a reason meditative purging is so useful..
It's why some people are so untrusting. like me. i'm getting better and better everyday at getting over years of being untrusting. getting over these "betrayals" i've experienced.. shit happens. i brought it upon myself by doing bad things. soo i'll be better now.
I agree, "potentially". I believe if we try to alter our innate self though, we are only working towards self-deception.. I believe in something before conception. Maybe that sounds a bit spiritual, but I am a spiritual person afterall.
free will - "the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies".
i'd love to believe most of my country's citizens are primarily free-willed thinkers... but it's just not the case.. the external is factored into decisions far too often. outer acceptance = inner acceptance.. this attitude is so defeating.
i'm being pretty vague and ambiguous because i've never touched on this subject before. there's a reason people are in more debt in america than anywhere else. we are so commercialized and afflicted with a lack of integrity and compassion.
though it plays a role.. i think free-will's role in personality has degenerated over the centuries and it's our innate temperament that determines our potentialities and the environmental conditioning that determines the polarity and intensity ( - or + ). we're taught that certain traits are undesirable in society and others aren't.
this doesn't make for positive reinforcement of the psyche.
nah, they don't go together. i didn't make that claim i dnt think either. idk if u thought that, but i was just saying you can group similar people with mbti even though they have a much different enneagram. but someone's mbti is going to be based off the enneagram. we show more variance than the mbti accounts for, however.
Did you do this piece of writing before or after you had researched the enneagram stuff?
It sounds like you were trying to take your emotions into your own hands which is truly inspiring as I have already said, but human nature is complicated and we all have a lot to learn when it comes to our emotions (maybe I'm just being an emotionally stunted NT here). If so, feel free to challenge my emotional ignorance, lol.
Social Exclusion involves your connection to friends and groups. It has to do with feeling isolated from the rest of the world, with feeling different. If you have this lifetrap, as a child you felt excluded by peers. You did not belong to a group of friends. Perhaps you had some unusual characteristic that made you feel different in some way. As an adult, you maintain your lifetrap mainly through avoidance. You avoid socializing in groups and making friends.
You may have felt excluded because there was something about you that other children rejected. Hence you felt socially undesirable. As an adult you may feel that you are ugly, sexually undesirable, low in status, poor in conversational skills, boring, or otherwise deficient. You reenact your childhood rejection - you feel and act inferior in social situations.
It is not always apparent that someone has a Social Exclusion lifetrap. Many people with this lifetrap are quite comfortable in intimate settings and are quite socially skilled. Their lifetrap may not show in one-to-one relationships. It sometimes surprises us to realize how anxious and aloof they may feel at parties, in classes, at meetings, or at work. They have a restless quality, a quality of looking for a place to belong.
1 Completely untrue of me
2 Mostly untrue of me
3 Slightly more ture than untrue of me
4 Moderately true of me
5 Mostly true of me
6 Describes me perfectly
If you have any 5's or 6's on this questionanaire, this lifetrap may still apply to you, even if your score is in the low range.
10-19 Very Low. This lifetrap probably does not apply to you.
20-29 Fairly Low. This lifetrap may only applyoccasionally.
30-39 Moderate. This lifetrap is an issue in your life.
40 - 49 High. This is definitely an important lifetrap for you.
50-60 Very High. This is definitely one of your core
SOCIAL EXCLUSION CRITERIA
1) I feel very self-conscious in social situations.
2) I feel dull and boring at parties and other gatherings. I never know what to say.
3) The people I want as friends are above me in some way (e.g. looks, popularity, wealth, status, education, career).
4) I would rather avoid than attend most social functions.
5) I feel unattractive - too fat, thin, tall, short, ugly, etc.
6) I feel fundamentally different from other people.
7) I do not belong anywhere, I am a loner.
8) I always feel on the outside of groups.
9) My family was different from the families around us.
10) I feel disconnected from the community at large.
Your total Score = (Add your scores together for questions 1-10)
Being clingy may have also been related to other life traps such as emotional deprivation, if you are interested I suggest taking a look at my blog here: Identifying Life Traps
Ok, I'll have to do part 2 to your reply a little later or tomorrow night, as work calls and I still have a lot to respond to. Looking forward to sharing the rest of my thoughts with you. It's been worthwhile. Keep searching for the answers, they are out there. That's what I tell myself, lol.
Relations of Semi-Duality
These are relations of deficient Duality. Semi-Duality partners usually have no problems in understanding each other or each other's objectives, at least when these objectives are only on paper...
I want to say 3w2 but only if they're healthy since 3s are probably more likely than most other types to be unhealthy, along with 4. I'd say in terms of charisma it's generally 7>3>2>8=6
3w2 for men and 2w3 for women. This world tends to favour 3w2-ness in men and 2w3-ness in women.