[Enneagram Type 3] 3w4s and 4w3s: What's the difference? - Page 2

3w4s and 4w3s: What's the difference?

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This is a discussion on 3w4s and 4w3s: What's the difference? within the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 forums, part of the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum category; @ angelfish I related to all of 3w4 except I can understand the 4s dreaminess (maybe it's because I'm an ...

  1. #11

    I related to all of 3w4 except I can understand the 4s dreaminess (maybe it's because I'm an NF) and HOLDEN CAULFIELD hahaha. But I also enjoy spy stories.
    Anyway, I guess it matters about motivation. Sometimes 3s and 4s look the same, especially if to a person, success is also being unique--like nobody can top them because they're so different.
    Nymma thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by gerardio View Post
    Thanks for that, that's a good rule of thumb. So anyway i believe i've met a 3w4 since making this thread and believe that i understand the difference now.

    Mostly introverted
    Often emotionally subdued
    Meticulous with regards to their appearance and persona
    Want to be quiet achievers
    Often wish to appear a little mysterious and/or alternative

    Mostly extroverted
    Emotionally expressive
    Often want their appearance to reflect an idealised version of their personality
    Desire to excel at what they're passionate about
    Want to be seen as warm, artistically gifted and attractive

    Both wish to appear unique and different to everyone else in some way.
    I think extroverted 3w4s might appear more introverted than usual, and introverted ones might appear more extroverted. That's because 3 has associations with extroversion & 4 with introversion, so there is a pull in their mindset. 3w2s are more obviously extroverted.

    The same could be said for 4w3s - the E ones seem more I than usual, and the Is seem more E. That's why NFP 4w3s can find it difficult to settle on I/E.

    Generally, I'd say that 4w3s like to receive recognition for their uniqueness, and they often have a "performer" vibe, even if they are not performers professionally. If they can't get posiotive recognition, they'd rather get negative attention rather than sacrifice their unique image for it. The uniqueness is seen as WHO they are. The 4 motivation always prevails, basically.

    3w4s like to receive recognition for their accomplishments while still maintaining uniqueness - they don't need to be recognized as unique first and foremost. 3w4s are usually more of leader types than 4w3s, and that's where they seek admiration, not so much as a "performer". They might want to lead in a unique way, accomplish things in a unique way - the uniqueness can be more about what they DO. So the 3 motivation prevails over the 4 one.

    I see this with my INFJ bf, who I think is 3w4 - he needs to be recognized for his abilities, and he loathes following the crowd, but he'd rather give up his unique path if it's not leading to the success he desires. That 3 motivation edges the 4 one out if necessary, but 99% of the time he's aiming for both. So he'll adapt/adjust a lot better than a 4w3 will, but in a way that gives him control to re-establish that unique path. In short, there's a lot more focus on the external & shuffling it about to suit him, than on the introspection & internal shuffling a 4 does. It also makes his Fe thinking more pronounced, but his demeanor is still not extroverted.

  3. #13

    @OrangeAppled That's really interesting, I would NEVER thrust myself in bad spotlight no matter what the circumstances! If I had to "adjust myself" for a crowd I would than have people boo me for me... :'(
    How do you think 3s and 4s relate to aesthetics or beauty? I was also wondering how, for instance, stereotypical supermodels or fashion designers would be typed--3 or 4? I was thinking a supermodel would be a 3, and the designer would be 4 respectively. The supermodel is more about how they're presented and if they're the "top model" while the designer is more innovative and creative...?

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  5. #14
    Type 3

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkiannpet View Post
    @OrangeAppled That's really interesting, I would NEVER thrust myself in bad spotlight no matter what the circumstances! If I had to "adjust myself" for a crowd I would than have people boo me for me... :'(
    How do you think 3s and 4s relate to aesthetics or beauty? I was also wondering how, for instance, stereotypical supermodels or fashion designers would be typed--3 or 4? I was thinking a supermodel would be a 3, and the designer would be 4 respectively. The supermodel is more about how they're presented and if they're the "top model" while the designer is more innovative and creative...?
    you dont really have to have a personality to be a supermodel LOL..... so i wouldnt type "stereotypical" supermodel.. but i'd guess the best would be ISTJs.. (as witrh any job that requiers hard work lol and dedication) because they are better when they are quiet. doing their work. dieting. being on time. supermodel shouldnt smile a lot... well. :D

    i dont follow fashion that much to know designer's personalities but i noticed that a few of them are def a 4 (as expected..) i mean, that guy who killed himself last year, cant remember his name !, was definately a 4 (well he could be a 7 too .. but i think 4), and an ISFP.. what was his name ? he was young, mid 30ies... ah.. poor guy.. :(

  6. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by gerardio View Post
    Hi guys, i'm having trouble distinguishing the difference in behaviour of 3w4s and 4w3s.
    What are some examples of when they would behave differently?
    I would say the difference is in the keymotivation:
    3w4 want success and recognition from others the most. they want to achieve something in life - thats their biggest aim
    4w3 (I am one) - feels unique, wants recognition from others due to their "inner beauty" and uniqueness (but their do not need the recognition from others so much as the 3) but their biggest aim is often to have a "happy life" in harmony.

    The 3w4 is more out of touch with their emotions, their have some heavy emotional issues due to the 4 wing but their are more likely to put the emotion to the side and throw themselves in work as if there would be no inner turbulence in them
    4w3 have much more problems with putting their emotions besides

    you find out the easiest about if a person is a 3w4 or a 4w3 when you get to know better each other and like each other - then the person will open up a little bit (both types are normally not so open at first even if it may seem so)
    - form the three you get some statement like "when I have reached this and this goal then I have made it" and this goal is normally a status symbol...
    - the 4 will say something about harmony and inner balance :D

    thats my experience with the 3w4/4w3s in RL
    gerardio and noflawsnostory thanked this post.

  7. #16
    Type 3w4

    I agree with all the 3w4 stuff and the more I read on the subject, the greater my pull to this type. Just one thing on this thread is confusing me and that is the notion of "classical eloquence". Personally, I have a firm hatred for wearing suits and absolutely can't stand leather shoes.. I feel like an absolute twat and it really does sap away all my confidence, I went to a private primary school and we were forced to wear a tie and leather shoes.. I used to always try to lose them by the end of day and mum just gave up on me and bought my runners lol.

    So basically, give me a nice T and a pair of jeans and you have my preferred look. You can keep your suits and ties, because I am definitely not interested.
    floater212, floater212, floater212 and 14 others thanked this post.

  8. #17

    Ok, I really don't understand. I originally typed as 3w4, but now the descriptions say 3 is extroverted. I'm not all that extroverted. I am very talkative around those that I know and get along with but in people I don't know.....I'm the guy in the corner saying nothing. Also, considering self image is a factor in enneagram, it is a huge deal how others view me. I'm not all that emotional, but how others view me and the striking fear of screwing up haunts me.

    I don't know much about enneagrams so I will put it in MBTI terms. What I tend to see happening is Fe reading emotions of others (often badly), Ne comes up with a giant list of reasons which they could be and many involve them hating me for some reason. Ti destroys most of them and those where there is not enough evidence...Fe kicks in and freaks out.

  9. #18
    Type 4w3

    4w3 and 3w4 is quite different, but they have an interesting likeness. I am a 4w3 and I have a 3w4 friend. I want my individualistic image to appear brilliant. He wants his brilliance to be unrivaled. I would think that I couldn't have a friend who is so...haughty, but he is highly respectable. I can definitely relate to his need to manifest himself into an elite form. We easily bounce energy off of one another, though we're not what I would call best friends. But undeniably connected.

    His status is important to him. He wishes to be seen as a standup guy. I, personally, do not give a damn about being accepted on anyone else's terms, but I am hyper-aware of how I look. I am concerned about how I'm seen, but I will not posture myself for a cause I don't support. He is similar, but would prefer to follow rules before deciding how he'd ever break them. And if he breaks them, he'll be sure he does it in appealing style. When talking to people, humorously enough, he's rather tactless and boastful. If one doesn't know him well, he or she would think him conceited, but it's just his way. He's actually very thoughtful. Great friend. I, on the other hand, will maintain my safe zone around people, but I can forget myself when I take on a curious brand of forwardness, while kicking myself deep inside for my inauthentic behavior.

    At times our wings act against us. His 4 wing, I think, lets him feel he can get away with some things, because he does have a skill of navigating within the lines, making his way to a higher rank. My 3 wing will cause me to seek opportunities to display myself, which I usually regret, being that I'm ashamed of my perceived inadequacies. Yet, I'm drawn to publicity. It's sick. I'm introverted as hell, yet being around people energizes me. One thing is for sure, I'm a memorable fellow when I show off. As is the 3w4.

    3w4 is like a specialist.

    4w3 is like a method actor for his or herself (identity issues).
    sodden, The Scorched Earth, Humaning and 11 others thanked this post.

  10. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedQueen View Post
    Not necessarily. I'm definitely an extrovert. But few of my friends have labeled me as ambivert, because although I'm technically a social butterfly, there's a lot of things about me that I do not share, until something triggered me to expose my hidden side.

    Example, when I was writing my novel, my family and friends were laughing at me because I didn't appear as intelligent enough to be able to publish any writings/novel. I'm always being silly and goofy so they thought I'm a bit retarded/immature. They were surprised as hell when my novels were published.

    Back in university, I'm known for being careless about my appearance (it was actually due to lack of financial support), so my friends always underestimate my taste. After graduation and got a job, I begin to change my clothes according to my style. Once again, my family and friends were surprised that I actually have such a unique sense of fashion and style.

    There are many other occasions where I surprised my family and friends with something they have never expected from me before, because I usually don't share my thoughts/ideas/plans. But then BOOM!, I suddenly appear with my unpredictable result/achievement which make many people (who think they know me) speechless. So this make them think that I'm an extrovert -yet also mysterious- in the same time.
    I think maybe a possible difference would be that a 4w3 would be less focused on, "I'll follow my objective, get where I want in my own time, and then prove them wrong."
    For example, the novel-- instead of following the practical course of finishing the novel and getting it published, then forcing them to change their opinion, I might spend some time trying to prove that I was indeed capable of getting published by talking to them instead of working on the novel. This is impractical as it won't help me be right/prove my assertions, but it shows that appearing to be what I want to be in the eyes of others (my vanity) is almost as/more important that actually being it, and that if someone does not believe my self-image it undermines my sense of self.

    To the OP, I think that maybe a big difference between 3w4 and 4w3 is how expressive they are about their emotions. Even with the four wing, a three will more disconnected from their emotions-- certainly more aware than a 3w2 but better at compartmentalizing them than a 4w3. A 4w3 may bring emotional goals/drives into other parts of their life and as a four, make them the centerpiece of conversation or their judgements.
    WickedQueen, OrangeAppled, gerardio and 1 others thanked this post.

  11. #20

    Quote Originally Posted by angelfish View Post
    well, i have two good friends, one a 3w4 and the other 4w3. i know the 3w4 a bit better, but i think i can explain well enough. i think the 3w4 is so/sp and the 4w3 sx/so. they are both NFs.

    one of the most interesting things i have noted is how they have responded to group positions. they have both been in a place to become the head officer of a group at different times. both are very smart, well-respected, and well-organized overachievers. the 3w4 was essentially chosen (you can see the w4 vs w2 difference here - 3w4 got the position by being "in" with the most influential members, instead of campaigning for popularity vote, as a w2 would be more likely to do). and she did a really excellent job at her position. the 4w3, on the other hand, was favored by the majority of the group in a later election cycle, but she had other plans she was considering, and ditched the position that was practically already hers to pursue travelling across the globe, which she really could have done later. i can never see the 3w4 doing that, unless she wasn't very dedicated to the group, in which case she just wouldn't be in the group at all. but the 4w3 felt like where she was travelling was a really big part of her soul, and she didn't want to wait any longer.

    otherwise, in general, the 3w4 is more socially observant and aware. she operates behind a screen a bit (i can recognize this easily because i do too!), carefully watching and choosing what she shows and what she doesn't. they both have a sort of disdain for others they don't deem "worthy", but the 3w4's is more active/obvious, while the 4w3's is more passive/done through omission. like, 3w4 will give you the cold shoulder, but 4w3 just won't pay attention to you at all. when the 3w4 enters a room with a group of people she knows, she is very clear about who she favors and does not. not in a mean way, but she is simply cool and non-responsive to those she does not favor, while she glows for those whom she does. the 4w3 on the other hand will tend to be warmer off the bat, saying hi to people she doesn't necessarily like much, and has less of an "in charge" aura about her however, she can definitely be just as judgmental as the 3w4 when she's talking about clothes, shoes, hair, etc. she's more "elitist" - she judges less on behavior and more on expression.

    as for other things, the 3w4 is more interested in people, and is an extremely good networker. it seems like second nature to her, and she enjoys it. it's like she does it without even trying. the 3w4 will introduce you to the people she really likes and her pride in both people will show. it's quite flattering, actually. the 4w3, on the other hand, simply seems like she doesn't really give a crap about networking. she'll introduce you, but beyond that i don't think she really cares. both the 3w4 and 4w3 do have similar bearings - both stylish, unique, and elegant - but the 3w4 is more classically beautiful and more polite/by the book, while the 4w3 is more eclectic/artsy and less attentive to proper procedure.

    correspondingly, the 4w3 is more dreamy and caught up in her ideas, while the 3w4 is more action-inclined. when the 3w4 wants something, she's already halfway to it. when the 4w3 wants something, she'll fantasize about it more and act on it comparatively less. when 4w3 gets really excited about something, everyone has heard about it as she's plastered it all over her social networking sites; when 3w4 is excited about something, only her closest confidantes hear about it, until it's 100% that it's happening, and then she shares it with everyone. 4w3 is more openly "goofy"; 3w4 can be really "silly" if she trusts you. predictably, the 3w4 likes spy stories; the 4w3 is in love with holden caulfield.

    additionally, just to help with "feel":





    I really like this post. I like the femininity of it. The girl you chose to represent the 3w4 is simply stunning.
    Choice thanked this post.

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