[INFJ] Enneatype

Enneatype

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This is a discussion on Enneatype within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Hey INFJ's To a few who have read a number of my posts, do you think I'm more dominantly Enneagram ...

  1. #1
    Unknown Personality

    Enneatype

    Hey INFJ's

    To a few who have read a number of my posts, do you think I'm more dominantly Enneagram Type 4 or Enneagram Type 1?
    Geoffrey and CloudFire thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFJ - The Protectors

    -----I've found looking at the childhood messages upon which Enneagram is built is the best way to discover type. Take a look, below.

    Unconscious Childhood Messages

    • Type One: It's not ok to make mistakes.
    • Type Two: It's not ok to have your own needs.
    • Type Three: It's not ok to have your own feelings and identity.
    • Type Four: It's not ok to be too functional or too happy.
    • Type Five: It's not ok to be comfortable in the world.
    • Type Six: It's not ok to trust yourself.
    • Type Seven: It's not ok to depend on anyone for anything.
    • Type Eight: It's not ok to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    • Type Nine: It's not ok to assert yourself.


    The Lost Childhood Messages for each type, that we do not hear as children, are ones that Riso thinks becomes the central issue in our lives. We want to hear our lost message more than anything else.

    Lost Childhood Messages

    • Type One: You are good.
    • Type Two: You are wanted.
    • Type Three: You are loved for yourself.
    • Type Four: You are seen for who you are.
    • Type Five: Your needs are not a problem.
    • Type Six: You are safe.
    • Type Seven: You will be taken care of.
    • Type Eight: You will not be betrayed.
    • Type Nine: Your presence matters.


    In looking over the lost messages, I can tell without a doubt that 9 is my central life struggle. Then 2. Then 7. I see a bit of 3,4, and 5, but they do not resonate strongly. Most people I know can look at this information and go through a similar process. Hopefully it helps you as well.

  3. #3
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
    The Lost Childhood Messages for each type, that we do not hear as children, are ones that Riso thinks becomes the central issue in our lives. We want to hear our lost message more than anything else.

    Lost Childhood Messages

    • Type One: You are good.
    • Type Two: You are wanted.
    • Type Three: You are loved for yourself.
    • Type Four: You are seen for who you are.
    • Type Five: Your needs are not a problem.
    • Type Six: You are safe.
    • Type Seven: You will be taken care of.
    • Type Eight: You will not be betrayed.
    • Type Nine: Your presence matters.


    In looking over the lost messages, I can tell without a doubt that 9 is my central life struggle. Then 2. Then 7. I see a bit of 3,4, and 5, but they do not resonate strongly. Most people I know can look at this information and go through a similar process. Hopefully it helps you as well.
    These are pretty awesome! I find underlying type of psychology to be very Freudian-ish but still very interesting, especially when childhood is the time when our views of the world are molded and the foundation for relationships with others are set. I'm pretty sure I'm a type 3 and the type 3 lost message really resonates with me. 3-2-4 would be the order for what I find difficult in life. I gotta question though. For "You are loved for yourself" and "you are seen for who you are", aren't those two basically the same thing? Could you expand on it a bit more if possible?! Thanks for the info. :)
    Geoffrey thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudFire View Post
    These are pretty awesome! I find underlying type of psychology to be very Freudian-ish but still very interesting, especially when childhood is the time when our views of the world are molded and the foundation for relationships with others are set. I'm pretty sure I'm a type 3 and the type 3 lost message really resonates with me. 3-2-4 would be the order for what I find difficult in life. I gotta question though. For "You are loved for yourself" and "you are seen for who you are", aren't those two basically the same thing? Could you expand on it a bit more if possible?! Thanks for the info. :)

    -----I can try to explain, anyway ; ) Keep in mind, I am essentially just explaining what's already well-written in The Wisdom of the Enneagram: The Complete Guide to Psychological and Spiritual Growth for the Nine Personality Types by Don Richard Riso, Russ Hudson.
    -----Type 3s were taught (usually unintentionally) that there was a particular way to be, feel, and/or act (an ideal) and that the self must be subjugated to this ideal--essentially, that it is not okay to be oneself. RH's "wake-up call" for Type 3s is "Driving themselves constantly for status and attention." In short, Type 3s feel that they must "be someone else"--that who they are is not acceptable. RH's assigns the following "cognitive error" to Type 3s: "Valu[ing] [self] based on 'performance,' external image." But here is the truth: that "ideal other" is a false idol. You deserve to be loved simply for being--for being you--not for doing. You have value; the false idol does not. You do not need to earn love. “You are loved for yourself.”
    -----RH's invitation to abundance is "to develop yourself and set an example for others—remembering to take pleasure in your existence and to esteem and value others."
    -----Type 4s were taught (usually unintentionally) that they must strictly regulate their external appearance/demeanor--to make the inner self a silent prisoner. This created a disconnect between the rich, inner self and the expression of that rich, inner self to the external world. RH's "wake-up call" for Type 4s is "Holding onto and intensifying feelings through the imagination." Having learned to minimize the inner self in childhood, in adulthood, the person tries to maximize the inner self and its presentation to the outside world (as a way to reclaim that space). RH's assigns the following "cognitive error" to Type 4s: "To identify [solely] with their feelings and emotional states." An example of this might be, "When I feel happy, what I'm doing is right, and I am a happy person. When I feel unhappy, what I'm doing is wrong, and I am an unhappy person." In reality, one can be a good and happy person overall but still occasionally feel unhappy--sometimes having to create temporary unhappiness in order to do what is right. Having been made to bury their inner selves (to feel invisible) in order to construct an "acceptable" facade, Type 4s try to reclaim their congruity between their inner and outer selves by blowing up/puffing out/inflating their internal worlds (in hopes that it explodes into the real world). But here is the truth: your inner self is a beacon of light that has always shined through to the outside world--only the emotionally blind are fooled by facades (or desire to see a facade instead of someone's true self). “You are seen for who you are.”
    -----RH's invitation to abundance is "to let go of the past and be renewed by your experiences—remembering to be forgiving, to use everything in your life for growth and renewal."
    -----Type 3s have been taught to aspire to be "other," and Type 4s have been taught to subjugate the true inner self to an exterior facade. These are different issues. However, clearly parents of 3s and 4s have intentionally or unintentionally tried to control the identities of their children.
    -----I hope that explains the difference (and that it perhaps helps).

    EDIT:

    -----I also want to add that what I think is so great about the RH Enneagram is that it teaches us not to bury the wounds of the past, but to understand and embrace them in order to take the negative and turn it to positive energy in life. When these "childhood messages" unconsciously drive us, they often push in negative directions. However, when these "childhood messages" are brought into the light of the conscious mind, one can understand one's internal motivations--and in doing so use that information (and energy) to power positive growth and change in oneself and the world--to become a positive incarnation of one's Enneagram personality type. That's what I meant when I said I hope this helps. : )
    Last edited by Geoffrey; 07-24-2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason: proofreading
    Sina, lemondropG, Vivid Melody and 3 others thanked this post.

  5. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
    -----I've found looking at the childhood messages upon which Enneagram is built is the best way to discover type. Take a look, below.

    Unconscious Childhood Messages

    • Type One: It's not ok to make mistakes.
    • Type Two: It's not ok to have your own needs.
    • Type Three: It's not ok to have your own feelings and identity.
    • Type Four: It's not ok to be too functional or too happy.
    • Type Five: It's not ok to be comfortable in the world.
    • Type Six: It's not ok to trust yourself.
    • Type Seven: It's not ok to depend on anyone for anything.
    • Type Eight: It's not ok to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    • Type Nine: It's not ok to assert yourself.


    The Lost Childhood Messages for each type, that we do not hear as children, are ones that Riso thinks becomes the central issue in our lives. We want to hear our lost message more than anything else.

    Lost Childhood Messages

    • Type One: You are good.
    • Type Two: You are wanted.
    • Type Three: You are loved for yourself.
    • Type Four: You are seen for who you are.
    • Type Five: Your needs are not a problem.
    • Type Six: You are safe.
    • Type Seven: You will be taken care of.
    • Type Eight: You will not be betrayed.
    • Type Nine: Your presence matters.


    In looking over the lost messages, I can tell without a doubt that 9 is my central life struggle. Then 2. Then 7. I see a bit of 3,4, and 5, but they do not resonate strongly. Most people I know can look at this information and go through a similar process. Hopefully it helps you as well.
    As a 6 I'd have to agree, but to complete it, we'd have to add: Type Six: It's not ok to trust yourself or to trust others.

    Growing up the immediate experience I recieved after a loving family enviroment was exactly how decietful, cruel, apathetic and untrustworthy other people, society, religion, humanity is. One could say that as I grew so did my understanding that the world is an inherently dangerous place and given the hypocracy, stupidity and amorality of the place...others are not to be trusted and things should be questioned, defied and rebelled against in an attempt to fight back the external influence that goes against my own personal sense of morality / justice, empathy, individuality and logic.

    “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens <---this is the core of doubt in a 6. Skepticism and need for certainty.

    I should add that I behave essentially like a 4w5.
    Sina, lemondropG, Vivid Melody and 2 others thanked this post.

  6. #6

    I've been wanting that book. It seems like there is a lot of overlap with the basic descriptions (which is to be expected) but the others are great.

    Raichan - I'm not sure but then, I'm not good at typing people!
    Geoffrey thanked this post.

  7. #7
    Unknown Personality

    Raichan, I'm not good at typing, so I'm not going to try to type you, but I do know that I used to think I was a 4, until I realized that all the things about 4 that struck me were the negative traits. It occurred to me that I was actually a 1 who disintegrated to 4 in times of stress. So if you're stuck between the two, I would ask which traits you embody when you're feeling healthy and which are merely descriptive of you at your worst. Maybe that will help.


    EDIT: And by "it occurred to me," I mean some very helpful people in the enneagram forum analyzed my questionnaire and helped me decide I was a one. And then I realized why I had been mistyping myself. :)
    Last edited by Elinor Dashwood; 07-24-2012 at 06:56 PM. Reason: clarity
    Raichan, Sina, lemondropG and 1 others thanked this post.

  8. #8
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by Elinor Dashwood View Post
    Raichan, I'm not good at typing, so I'm not going to try to type you, but I do know that I used to think I was a 4, until I realized that all the things about 4 that struck me were the negative traits. It occurred to me that I was actually a 1 who disintegrated to 4 in times of stress. So if you're stuck between the two, I would ask which traits you embody when you're feeling healthy and which are merely descriptive of you at your worst. Maybe that will help.
    I think during times of stress, I behaved at times like a 4 INFP. I used to think I was Enneagram 4 and INFP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
    -----I've found looking at the childhood messages upon which Enneagram is built is the best way to discover type. Take a look, below.

    Unconscious Childhood Messages

    • Type One: It's not ok to make mistakes.
    • Type Two: It's not ok to have your own needs.
    • Type Three: It's not ok to have your own feelings and identity.
    • Type Four: It's not ok to be too functional or too happy.
    • Type Five: It's not ok to be comfortable in the world.
    • Type Six: It's not ok to trust yourself.
    • Type Seven: It's not ok to depend on anyone for anything.
    • Type Eight: It's not ok to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    • Type Nine: It's not ok to assert yourself.


    The Lost Childhood Messages for each type, that we do not hear as children, are ones that Riso thinks becomes the central issue in our lives. We want to hear our lost message more than anything else.

    Lost Childhood Messages

    • Type One: You are good.
    • Type Two: You are wanted.
    • Type Three: You are loved for yourself.
    • Type Four: You are seen for who you are.
    • Type Five: Your needs are not a problem.
    • Type Six: You are safe.
    • Type Seven: You will be taken care of.
    • Type Eight: You will not be betrayed.
    • Type Nine: Your presence matters.


    In looking over the lost messages, I can tell without a doubt that 9 is my central life struggle. Then 2. Then 7. I see a bit of 3,4, and 5, but they do not resonate strongly. Most people I know can look at this information and go through a similar process. Hopefully it helps you as well.
    One seems to be my central struggle
    Geoffrey thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INFJ - The Protectors


    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey View Post
    -----I've found looking at the childhood messages upon which Enneagram is built is the best way to discover type. Take a look, below.

    Unconscious Childhood Messages

    • Type One: It's not ok to make mistakes.
    • Type Two: It's not ok to have your own needs.
    • Type Three: It's not ok to have your own feelings and identity.
    • Type Four: It's not ok to be too functional or too happy.
    • Type Five: It's not ok to be comfortable in the world.
    • Type Six: It's not ok to trust yourself.
    • Type Seven: It's not ok to depend on anyone for anything.
    • Type Eight: It's not ok to be vulnerable or to trust anyone.
    • Type Nine: It's not ok to assert yourself.


    The Lost Childhood Messages for each type, that we do not hear as children, are ones that Riso thinks becomes the central issue in our lives. We want to hear our lost message more than anything else.

    Lost Childhood Messages

    • Type One: You are good.
    • Type Two: You are wanted.
    • Type Three: You are loved for yourself.
    • Type Four: You are seen for who you are.
    • Type Five: Your needs are not a problem.
    • Type Six: You are safe.
    • Type Seven: You will be taken care of.
    • Type Eight: You will not be betrayed.
    • Type Nine: Your presence matters.


    In looking over the lost messages, I can tell without a doubt that 9 is my central life struggle. Then 2. Then 7. I see a bit of 3,4, and 5, but they do not resonate strongly. Most people I know can look at this information and go through a similar process. Hopefully it helps you as well.
    I am 4 - and dead on on this.
    Geoffrey thanked this post.

  10. #10
    Unknown Personality

    https://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-...j-i-guess.html

    does this shed light on enneagram?
    Geoffrey thanked this post.


     
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