[INFJ] SJs in Asian culture in comparison to SJs in the West

SJs in Asian culture in comparison to SJs in the West

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This is a discussion on SJs in Asian culture in comparison to SJs in the West within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; I assume there are much more Americans here in this community. This thread is maybe about the difference between "SJs ...

  1. #1

    SJs in Asian culture in comparison to SJs in the West

    I assume there are much more Americans here in this community.

    This thread is maybe about the difference between "SJs in Asian culture" and in the West.

    some people don't believe in temperament theory and/or personality typing, believing that environment is more influential in one's personality but for those of us who think that temperament/personality typing is overlooked more than people realize, what could we say is the striking difference between SJs in an Asian culture versus the West?

    Like there are people here who are Americans who have a thing or two to say about SJs (or how much they dislike them, really - I will say most people who come here have a thing to dislike about the SJs maybe because most of the personality types here are N or something) but what more in the Asian culture when they are more traditional and the likes?

    Is it fascinating that most people who come here and dislike the SJ temperament (ESTJ/ESFJ especially) are from the West? How about from the Asian culture where people are supposedly more traditional, conservative, family-oriented and is "expected to follow the path" ? You would think that people who have a thing against 'traditional people who don't want to disrupt the status quo' will be coming from an Asian culture so maybe they have learned to rebel or something but alas, if this is a personality type thing, SJs (the stereotypical symbol for tradition and guardianship- and also somehow a symbol of Asian cultures) seem to be universally hated (atleast in personality typing forums I assume)

    Discuss what you can say about the matter.



  2. #2

    odd this hasn't got any replies yet--I have been wondering myself on a similar topic

    I think the bad rap (rep?) comes from not the type but the individual who was nasty by nature. When they're awful, they can reach far I guess compared to some types...
    I myself have met very little. Most esjs I've got along with are mild-mannered, and one sensitive one.

    As for this topic,the truth is that it may actually be the same. a lot of my Asian acquaintances have similar stories on going against their parents' wishes.
    in fact I believe this to be so big or common it is its own film genre lol! seriously. it is very easy to find a movie that centers around this (for example, filipino--perhaps Chinese?).

    on a more serious note what about increase of suicide or hikikomori-- whenever these subjects are explained I find they refer to this sort of pressure to fit a box

  3. #3

    SJs are far more dominant in the East. A thick fog of Si-Fe lies over much of Asia, preventing most other things from emerging from it. Because they are so dominant, SJness is questioned less and accepted more the way you accept that it's air you breathe. It's like questioning and criticising the king in Thailand: it is simply not done, ever.

    That said, I'm a European who has lived in Asia but not in America so I'm poorly versed in what SJness looks like in the US. I do know what it looks like in Asia.
    JennyJukes, series0, dragonhead66 and 1 others thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INFP

    I imagine SJs in Asian culture are the parents that want their children to become doctors or something like that. I am completely ignorant of asian culture and have no idea what you really mean when you say asian culture, all I know actually are those stereotypes of the parents coming to america and wanting their kid to be a doctor. Or super traditional you must past down the family name type of parents or something. SJ conversatives in america usually side with anything that is traditionally america, guns and apple pie, or something lol. And they can be resistant to change, the much older ones at least, like not getting a smart phone or something like that.

    High Si users are probably the types most molded by their environment culture, and past history also. A black SJ in America can be very different from a White SJ in America. Both championing 2 different kind of past histories that their culture was built on. And a southern SJ will be different from a northern SJ. Northern SJ most commonly will be a white collar worker business like kind of city slicker, while southern SJ most commonly would be a farmer or countryman who grown up in a small town. Northern SJ would think southern SJ is some simple minded country boy, southern SJ would think northern SJ is some privileged cityboy who has never done a hard days work in his life. You want to figure out what an SJ is like, look at their history.
    StableSun35, dragonhead66, Llyralen and 1 others thanked this post.

  5. #5

    SJs do quite well in America in my opinion. This could be because they are the majority (see the link).
    https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...ype.htm?bhcp=1

    Supposedly America values Extroversion and pragmatism (T) highly. There is a focus on business, boldness in speaking, and organization. I've seen America characterized as valuing characteristics that are ESTJs the most. Our current (place whatever rude words you would like to here) president is likely ESTP.
    America is a really big country and there are multiple cultures. Northeastern America has values for a very brash straight forward fast talk-- very SJ in my opinion. The South and Middle America have deep roots in their traditions-- also dominated by SJs. I have actually wondered if my home state is unusually N heavy, or if just my family and my friends were pretty much all N's... actually I think there is a bigger percentile than in most states.. it seems like N and specifically xNTJ was valued in leadership, also ENFP in leadership, but where is a xNTJ not valued? But my home state (Utah) is very different than most of America, especially when it comes to economics and... yeah... actually the attitude is very different.. much more forward thinking, much more value on "out of the box" thinking. The Mountains (especially Colorado, Utah, Arizona...and Wyoming actually have a couple of super intelligent little microcosm towns, surprisingly enough) and the West Coast are just more loose and open-- P and N more valued, but it's not like SJs do poorly. I would say that California especially seems to value perceivers. Washington seems to tolerate a bit more intuitive and perceiving. My current state (in the Pacific Northwest) values ESFJ... it's a very feeling state, they also seem likely to get blind-sided and are stuck in their ways... total ESFJ.

    Conversely, American FILM values individualism, spontaneity, extroversion and this influences the way America is perceived by other countries as being very open and individualistic. People talk about there being a very skewed number of ENFPs in Hollywood. Walt Disney was ENFP as well.

    Oh... hey @Lord Pixel I see we both thought of Northern SJs, Southern SJs... all the different SJ cultures. lol.

    Edit: According to this the only thing that I am right about when it comes to Western states is that Utah and Wyoming are VERY VERY different from the other states. Check it out:https://www.16personalities.com/arti...-united-states
    Last edited by Llyralen; 09-19-2018 at 11:54 PM.
    dragonhead66, L P and psyniim thanked this post.

  6. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by raschel View Post
    odd this hasn't got any replies yet--I have been wondering myself on a similar topic

    I think the bad rap (rep?) comes from not the type but the individual who was nasty by nature. When they're awful, they can reach far I guess compared to some types...
    I myself have met very little. Most esjs I've got along with are mild-mannered, and one sensitive one.

    As for this topic,the truth is that it may actually be the same. a lot of my Asian acquaintances have similar stories on going against their parents' wishes.
    in fact I believe this to be so big or common it is its own film genre lol! seriously. it is very easy to find a movie that centers around this (for example, filipino--perhaps Chinese?).

    on a more serious note what about increase of suicide or hikikomori-- whenever these subjects are explained I find they refer to this sort of pressure to fit a box
    I think the movie "Crazy Rich Asians" addresses this.

  7. #7
    Unknown

    Since this is an NJ forum, why the SJ related post? ... Just sayin!

    As an ENTP I literally cannot do Si. It haunts me. I am amazed by people who can be on time and dot the i's and cross the t's. When I arrive I burst past all their efforts in no time, but they still ding me for not being on time. I think Si's are simply insane. The turtle really DOES NOT win, sorry.

  8. #8
    INFP

    Quote Originally Posted by Llyralen View Post
    SJs do quite well in America in my opinion. This could be because they are the majority (see the link).
    https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...ype.htm?bhcp=1

    Supposedly America values Extroversion and pragmatism (T) highly. There is a focus on business, boldness in speaking, and organization. I've seen America characterized as valuing characteristics that are ESTJs the most. Our current (place whatever rude words you would like to here) president is likely ESTP.
    America is a really big country and there are multiple cultures. Northeastern America has values for a very brash straight forward fast talk-- very SJ in my opinion. The South and Middle America have deep roots in their traditions-- also dominated by SJs. I have actually wondered if my home state is unusually N heavy, or if just my family and my friends were pretty much all N's... actually I think there is a bigger percentile than in most states.. it seems like N and specifically xNTJ was valued in leadership, also ENFP in leadership, but where is a xNTJ not valued? But my home state (Utah) is very different than most of America, especially when it comes to economics and... yeah... actually the attitude is very different.. much more forward thinking, much more value on "out of the box" thinking. The Mountains (especially Colorado, Utah, Arizona...and Wyoming actually have a couple of super intelligent little microcosm towns, surprisingly enough) and the West Coast are just more loose and open-- P and N more valued, but it's not like SJs do poorly. I would say that California especially seems to value perceivers. Washington seems to tolerate a bit more intuitive and perceiving. My current state (in the Pacific Northwest) values ESFJ... it's a very feeling state, they also seem likely to get blind-sided and are stuck in their ways... total ESFJ.

    Conversely, American FILM values individualism, spontaneity, extroversion and this influences the way America is perceived by other countries as being very open and individualistic. People talk about there being a very skewed number of ENFPs in Hollywood. Walt Disney was ENFP as well.

    Oh... hey @Lord Pixel I see we both thought of Northern SJs, Southern SJs... all the different SJ cultures. lol.

    Edit: According to this the only thing that I am right about when it comes to Western states is that Utah and Wyoming are VERY VERY different from the other states. Check it out:https://www.16personalities.com/arti...-united-states
    Yea I think Cali is very P and the west is probably more NP. I think Oregon is full blown NP lol. Portland is NP captial lol.

    Walt being an ENFP makes alot of sense and it still seems to be the spirit of his films even today seeing how many of those Disney princesses are ENFP lol. "I want to go on an adventure to some distant land." And she eventually goes on impulse lol. It makes sense because an ENFP character is very inprising and that's what the films aim to be.

    I also think poster boy for America is ESTJ. ESTJ is like a cardboard cutout of your everyday American values. Like...Buzz Lightyear or something.
    Last edited by L P; 09-20-2018 at 12:15 AM.
    dragonhead66 and Llyralen thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INFJ - The Protectors

    American is traditionally individualistic, while Asia is traditionally collectivist. SJ seems to be fit in better with a collectivist kind of mindset. Or, from virtue of being the most common type, they are what the rest of a collectivist society gravitates toward. Chicken or the egg thing.
    AriesLilith and dragonhead66 thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by series0 View Post
    dot the i's and cross the t's
    You are blaming your incapability to do this on your type? You have to be kidding me right? Some of you sound downright obsessed with relating every stupid little thing back to typology.

    --

    Let's see, I spent about 20 years in Asia and 17 years in the West.

    There isn't much of a difference in how they function except in the culture and environment itself. The interesting thing to look at here is how the SJ's function within the culture and how they influence it - but given that Jung's 8 types are all present at likely the same levels, you have pretty much similar differences.

    The thing I've noticed about SP's and NF's in Asian cultures is that they tend to create and live inside protective bubbles where a lot of their misunderstood and underappreciated behaviors are exhibited within protective circles amongst each other .. and their influence society by and large is more covert than obvious. Most simply leave the most oppressive regions. I have no quips about claiming that Asian SJ's are (especially around South Asia and The Middle East) are stuck somewhere 100-500 years behind western societies. Even most of the most progressive minded South Asians (the civil society as we like to call it) openly admit and lament this.

    My view on this is that it was not the Pakistani SJ's that did this, but that this is the legacy of the British Raj which efed Pakistan and India up the arse and just stole everything they could and left it behind to fend for itself .. while sucking the most intelligent minds from that region into their society.

    The way the processes themselves work doesn't change. The differences are not in personality, but in how the societies themselves function. All you need to do is examine the differences in cultures themselves in order to relate it back to the process.
    Last edited by SilentScream; 09-20-2018 at 01:05 AM.


     
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