[INFJ] New hypothesis: INFJ or INFP preference based on difference in "vision"??

New hypothesis: INFJ or INFP preference based on difference in "vision"??

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This is a discussion on New hypothesis: INFJ or INFP preference based on difference in "vision"?? within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Ok, so I had an INFJ "A ha!" moment during my history course this morning when my professor was talking ...

  1. #1
    INFJ - The Protectors

    New hypothesis: INFJ or INFP preference based on difference in "vision"??

    Ok, so I had an INFJ "A ha!" moment during my history course this morning when my professor was talking about World War II and FDR, then he vaguely brought up Eleanor Roosevelt's influence as First Lady (a fellow INFJ). The comment he made to trigger my idea was "Eleanor changed the role in of the First Lady by becoming involved in politics and working to change things. Really, only Eleanor and Hilary Clinton were the only two first ladies to do this to date. Other first ladies have still done good things, like Laura Bush was focused on improving reading in schools and Michelle Obama has been trying to promote healthier diets for kids, but who's going to argue or have a problem with that? The difference with Eleanor is that she strived to do things, but it were things that people could come in and say they disagreed with her idea."

    So this got me thinking...

    Two famous INFPs that I've read quite a bit about would be Audrey Hepburn and Princess Diana, both of which were involved in helping the sick and poverty areas of the world. Their "vision" was to help others in way that nobody can really argue that what they are doing is a bad thing.
    On the flip side, Eleanor focused on the Human Rights movement... which was her way of helping the people. The area that she focused on seemed to, perhaps, take more courage because doing so made her subject to criticism by the people of the US.

    This is not to say that Princess Diana or Audrey Hepburn didn't take risks or have controversy (Diana's life was all that by being involved in the Royal family and her issues with Prince Charles). Diana reached out to the people that no other anarchy did up until that time. After all, this is why they called her the "people's princess". Regardless there are still people that did not like Diana because she was apparently "dumb", "emotionally unstable" or whatever other thing people have said.
    I'm just saying that their visions were something that (most) people can't look at that and say "wow, that's not going to help anybody..." - nobody can really argue that helping the poor is bad.

    So hopefully that makes sense..

    So what are your visions and goals? If you could do ANYTHING to influence or change anything in this world what would it be? Is it a more controversial topic or more of a "safe" topic??
    chaseut, safelocked, sarahpost1337 and 5 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Hm, first of all, you have been cooking up some excellent topics lately .

    Hm, some of my visions: I cannot stand antisocial behaviour. Yesterday at work we discussed fines. In the Netherlands, a fine of 25 euros can be given if someone parks their bicycle without locking it. My colleague wouldn't believe it, but I absolutely loved the idea. I like fines . The Netherlands are packed with bicycles and most cyclists in the cities hardly obey any traffic rules. I think the local government could make good revenue out of enforcing them better. I would be very interested in the permission to issue fines if I would get, say, 10% of the money.

    Now that is something not entirely meant seriously. Something more serious is about student housing in the city where I live. Most dutch college students aren't very tidy and sadly quite a few of them are rather noisy. I happen to live in an apartment in a block of flats of which way too many have been converted for student housing. It shows. The pitch of grass in front of the flat looks like a scrapyard because many students are too lazy to park their bicycles in their sheds. A letter about the subject has been sent to everyone, but it did not yield much results. Such things annoy me incredibly. I can imagine being oblivious to something, but not changing one's behaviour after having been addressed about something... *ugh*. And then I have yet to mention the incredible noise some people seemingly need to make .

    At Shell, employees and contractors are obliged to obey 12 rules that ensure safety. When you choose not to obey the rules, you choose not to work for Shell. I think that for certain categories of people the same could apply for their rooms: if you choose not to behave, you choose not to live there. Please bear in mind that I would not advocate kicking problem families out of their houses as there probably are good reasons why they fight. But in cases where individuals simply don't care about the nuisance they might be to others, I do not exactly see a reason to be lenient with them.

    As you might see, some things trigger quite lot of emotion and I get carried away a bit. But what I do see is that many people seem to think that it is no use to address nuisance issues with their neighbours and that is something that makes me feel incredibly sad. If there is a chance for me to change that I will grab it.

    The above is a bit of a rant I think . More generally speaking, I see the pattern of "why do people do this, it can't be!" after which I think of a way things should change so that it is best for everyone. Which regularly means that people need to give up things they shouldn't have had or done in the first place.

    Does this fit your idea about vision?

  3. #3
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeJay View Post
    Hm, first of all, you have been cooking up some excellent topics lately .

    Hm, some of my visions: I cannot stand antisocial behaviour. Yesterday at work we discussed fines. In the Netherlands, a fine of 25 euros can be given if someone parks their bicycle without locking it. My colleague wouldn't believe it, but I absolutely loved the idea. I like fines . The Netherlands are packed with bicycles and most cyclists in the cities hardly obey any traffic rules. I think the local government could make good revenue out of enforcing them better. I would be very interested in the permission to issue fines if I would get, say, 10% of the money.

    Now that is something not entirely meant seriously. Something more serious is about student housing in the city where I live. Most dutch college students aren't very tidy and sadly quite a few of them are rather noisy. I happen to live in an apartment in a block of flats of which way too many have been converted for student housing. It shows. The pitch of grass in front of the flat looks like a scrapyard because many students are too lazy to park their bicycles in their sheds. A letter about the subject has been sent to everyone, but it did not yield much results. Such things annoy me incredibly. I can imagine being oblivious to something, but not changing one's behaviour after having been addressed about something... *ugh*. And then I have yet to mention the incredible noise some people seemingly need to make .

    At Shell, employees and contractors are obliged to obey 12 rules that ensure safety. When you choose not to obey the rules, you choose not to work for Shell. I think that for certain categories of people the same could apply for their rooms: if you choose not to behave, you choose not to live there. Please bear in mind that I would not advocate kicking problem families out of their houses as there probably are good reasons why they fight. But in cases where individuals simply don't care about the nuisance they might be to others, I do not exactly see a reason to be lenient with them.

    As you might see, some things trigger quite lot of emotion and I get carried away a bit. But what I do see is that many people seem to think that it is no use to address nuisance issues with their neighbours and that is something that makes me feel incredibly sad. If there is a chance for me to change that I will grab it.

    The above is a bit of a rant I think . More generally speaking, I see the pattern of "why do people do this, it can't be!" after which I think of a way things should change so that it is best for everyone. Which regularly means that people need to give up things they shouldn't have had or done in the first place.

    Does this fit your idea about vision?
    Yeah that does fit into my idea about a "vision". You choose a viewpoint that you think is good for whatever reason and run with it even though its not something that everybody is going to think its good.

    I, for one, am going into a career where women are the minority and perhaps thought by some that women are not capable of it and shouldn't have it as a career. That's a mild example, but it is one.
    Here's one than idea I've had at one time but I haven't done it: I thought of writing a book about misconceptions that people have over the US agriculture industry. Just to discuss why things are done a certain way, how things would need to be done if going down a different way of doing things, rumors on how things are done that are not necessarily true, etc. etc. etc. I've just felt like there's a lot that people don't understand and just assume or read in an article from someone who isn't knowledgeable in the topic either.. but nobody does anything to educate people about what is really going on. It just troubles me when people point their finger at the industry that is supplying them with food in order to survive and rather than feel grateful, they criticize it and will claim that the food produced causes them to get fat and sick. Which, I can't see as how that directly correlates at all because its ones own personal choice of their diet. It truly does not cost that much to eat some fruits and veggies at least once in a while (after all, I'm a college student and I manage to eat pretty healthy and still spend the same amount on food as a fellow student who does not).

    Sorry, got on a rant a bit... but that's an idea with how my "visions" often are.
    TeeJay thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Hmm, I wonder, what would you see as your motivation? The primary thought that comes to my mind is something like "argh, stupid people, if you only knew !", but when I think about things a little bit further it seems like eventually I foresee a more harmonious situation when everyone is more aware of what actually is true and embraces it.

  5. #5
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeJay View Post
    Hmm, I wonder, what would you see as your motivation? The primary thought that comes to my mind is something like "argh, stupid people, if you only knew !", but when I think about things a little bit further it seems like eventually I foresee a more harmonious situation when everyone is more aware of what actually is true and embraces it.
    Yeah see, to me it feels like the motivation is for people to better understand different things in life and therefore hopefully understand each other to create more harmony in the world. Like a lot of the issues I think of all involve just educating society by making people aware so there isn't so much conflict.
    TeeJay thanked this post.

  6. #6
    ISFP - The Artists


    Hillary Clinton is not an INFJ.

    She is either an INTJ or ISTJ. She is an awesome TJ wimminz, and I admire her hardassery.

    But do I believe that Ni doms can have a stubborn, internal vision that other people can't see, and that Ni often doesn't care if they do? Yes, yes I do.

    A negative example of this: Adolf Hitler, famous xNFJ.
    MilkyWay132 thanked this post.

  7. #7
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeJay View Post
    Hm, first of all, you have been cooking up some excellent topics lately .

    Hm, some of my visions: I cannot stand antisocial behaviour. Yesterday at work we discussed fines. In the Netherlands, a fine of 25 euros can be given if someone parks their bicycle without locking it. My colleague wouldn't believe it, but I absolutely loved the idea. I like fines . The Netherlands are packed with bicycles and most cyclists in the cities hardly obey any traffic rules. I think the local government could make good revenue out of enforcing them better. I would be very interested in the permission to issue fines if I would get, say, 10% of the money.

    Now that is something not entirely meant seriously. Something more serious is about student housing in the city where I live. Most dutch college students aren't very tidy and sadly quite a few of them are rather noisy. I happen to live in an apartment in a block of flats of which way too many have been converted for student housing. It shows. The pitch of grass in front of the flat looks like a scrapyard because many students are too lazy to park their bicycles in their sheds. A letter about the subject has been sent to everyone, but it did not yield much results. Such things annoy me incredibly. I can imagine being oblivious to something, but not changing one's behaviour after having been addressed about something... *ugh*. And then I have yet to mention the incredible noise some people seemingly need to make .

    At Shell, employees and contractors are obliged to obey 12 rules that ensure safety. When you choose not to obey the rules, you choose not to work for Shell. I think that for certain categories of people the same could apply for their rooms: if you choose not to behave, you choose not to live there. Please bear in mind that I would not advocate kicking problem families out of their houses as there probably are good reasons why they fight. But in cases where individuals simply don't care about the nuisance they might be to others, I do not exactly see a reason to be lenient with them.

    As you might see, some things trigger quite lot of emotion and I get carried away a bit. But what I do see is that many people seem to think that it is no use to address nuisance issues with their neighbours and that is something that makes me feel incredibly sad. If there is a chance for me to change that I will grab it.

    The above is a bit of a rant I think . More generally speaking, I see the pattern of "why do people do this, it can't be!" after which I think of a way things should change so that it is best for everyone. Which regularly means that people need to give up things they shouldn't have had or done in the first place.

    Does this fit your idea about vision?
    You now made me positive I'm an INFJ. I don't get excited by most things, but people who sabotage others without needing to make me furious. Like cutting lines, just because you take for granted that you're busier than everyone else.

    So thanks :)

  8. #8
    INFP - The Idealists

    this is interesting to me... I can't say I speak for all INFPs, but the rant above touches on what I FEEL might be a key difference which ties in with this idea of one's approach to an idealistic vision. I may be oversimplifying or not have insight into the minds of the few INFJs I've encountered, but....

    It's been my impression that INFJs tend to be more sensitive to matters of social rudeness and the direction of their responce is pushing back outwards toward social reform. Their instant reaction is "They shouldn't do that, they should do this instead!" and they will ask (and expect) people to change behaviour.

    It seems to me that when INFPs see these same instances of social rudeness, they are less likely to feel offended and more likely to get absorbed in contemplating the grand-scheme workings of society over time and space coupled with individual people's personalities and backgrounds in order to explain this phenomenon of rudeness, which to some extent excuses the behaviour but also points to some other deeper needs people have which must be adressed first in order to allow for this other change in behaviour to come about naturally. Their responce is focused more on understanding why than creating change, and perhaps also has a tendency to seek the ultimate problem (which can be overwhelming) rather than adressing the immediate problem, which may lead them to finally act toward solving more basic issues (the things people wouldn't really argue with).
    alexander, Dewymorning, Lad and 3 others thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by fourtines View Post
    Hillary Clinton is not an INFJ.

    She is either an INTJ or ISTJ. She is an awesome TJ wimminz, and I admire her hardassery.

    But do I believe that Ni doms can have a stubborn, internal vision that other people can't see, and that Ni often doesn't care if they do? Yes, yes I do.

    A negative example of this: Adolf Hitler, famous xNFJ.
    She never said Hilary Clinton was an INFJ. *sigh*

    @thegirlcandance Interesting idea, I want to think on it more

  10. #10
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by thegirlcandance View Post
    Two famous INFPs that I've read quite a bit about would be Audrey Hepburn and Princess Diana, both of which were involved in helping the sick and poverty areas of the world. Their "vision" was to help others in way that nobody can really argue that what they are doing is a bad thing.
    Just fyi, Audrey Hepburn is often typed as ISFJ rather than INFP. I gotta say I agree with the ISFJ typing more, since from her interviews it's evident that her "synthetic" ability was weak when it came to dealing with information -- a quality common to SF types, pointing to weak intuitive function.

    Diana was most likely INFP, and imo Mother Teresa as well.


     
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